Trump wants to be dictator and is talking about a third term and you dipshits still keep on with your divisive nonsense meant to push people into political apathy. Lol this site’s political discourse has been completely hijacked by bad-faith, blame Dems at all costs bullshit.
To those not acting in bad faith, you should vote Biden because at least you know he will peacefully step down when his term is up. Trump will try more J6 style violence to stay in power. Could you imagine 20 years of Trump, or if he appointed one of his kids president?
Pull your head out of your ass and vote Biden.
Sounds like Biden and the Dems should be trying pretty hard to get young people and progressives to show up this year… Maybe calling them “dipshits” isn’t an effective tactic? In fact, I would say this is the kind of thing that turns people off from giving a shit… Are you TRYING to get Trump elected? How about instead of bullying the voters you’re trying to convince to do what you want them to do, you could try putting that pressure on the Dems to start doing what it takes to get people to show up and vote
What I find amusing is that the primary season hasn’t even officially ended yet. The convention is in August. There are numerous states that haven’t even cast a ballot for Biden. And we’re already absolutely inundated with “You have to vote for him or you’re a traitor to your nation!” hyperbole.
You’d think people could at least save their most hysterical outcries until the general election season has officially started. But no. Everyone on Lemmy is expected to bend the knee right now, at this very instant, because otherwise Trump might become President… six months early?
There’s simply no room in the political calendar for any kind of criticism of the sitting President.
Biden hasn’t been great. He dragged his feet on issues he campaigned on (e.g., student debt relief), he sounds eve older than he is, and perhaps most gallingly, he didn’t unequivocally renounce the genocide in Gaza immediately. Inflation sucks and wages aren’t high enough for most to survive, let alone thrive. I can name a dozen progressives off the top of my head I’d rather have as president.
First past the post voting and the two-party system give us little chance at the national level for meaningful fast change.
But have you seen the shit Trump has promised he will do as president? We all learned an important lesson from the first Trump presidency: take him seriously, not literally. I shouldn’t need to list the things Trump has promised to do, but here’s a highlight reel:
- Enthusiastically support Israel’s “invasion” of Gaza
- Waste billions on a useless border wall
- Deploy the military domestically to “fight crime”, “coincidentally” in blue states
- Slash federal education spending and let states handle their own education
- Repeal background checks, reopen the gun show loophole, roll back federal laws against gun trafficking, and make it easier for kids under 21 to get guns
- Undo Title IX trans rights
And he won’t stand in the way of any of the Project2025 insanity the GOP wants to pursue.
So, on the left, you have an old man who has maybe made things a little better for some too slowly while ignoring a genocide. On the right, you have an old man who endorses that same genocide, promises to make the country an actively worse place for many, and who has empirically proven he will encourage and endorse insurrection and treason to stay in power.
The best play for the future is two-pronged:
- For the medium/far future: push for electoral reform like IRV/ranked choice voting at the local/state level (to get people used to it), endorse third-party candidates, run for local office, donate time/money to causes that matter to you.
- For the near term, to allow the first bullet point to take root and thrive: Don’t let Trump get elected, which means, unfortunately, voting for Biden.
Democrats can’t win without the progressive caucus, and even in the most conservative part of a largely leftist social media site and the best thing that people who claim to be left are saying is ‘Biden was a shit president and I fucking hate having to vote for him’
Does anyone here really think Biden can rely on progressives right now? Honestly, maybe everyone here would say they’d do it anyway, but who here actually thinks a majority of leftists would show up for that POS?
If Biden is steadfast on this position on Isreal he loses. There’s no amount of street-corner-preaching about the end of days that will convince leftists to vote for Biden.
I’m a progressive, volunteered for Bernie’s campaigns. I don’t remember electing you to speak for me, maybe you don’t have your finger so squarely on the pulse of every single progressive.
I plan to vote for Biden, am I excited about it, no. Is the Democratic Party going to put up anyone else, no. Would me holding back my vote matter, no.
There is no world where “not voting for the least bad option” equals anything other than the most bad option winning. You can be upset that that’s the word you happen to find yourself in, no one asked me if having to pick between the two jackboots of the capital class was how we should arrange things either.
One thing I haven’t heard is what’s the alternative. You have my full attention, what would you actually concretely hope to have happen. Let’s say you could convince a large number of Democratic Party voters to follow your lead, what would you have them do?
Perhaps watching the Democratic Party leadership gut the chances of Sanders twice to put up boring ass garbage candidates has hardened my heart. Would you have them sit out the primary convention, great Biden still wins because of super delegates. Would you have them protest and hold back their votes in November, great trump wins. Is there some other thing that’s supposed to happen? What’s the plan?
I am very happy for your politics, honestly I am. I wish more people were as involved as that.
Bidens approval is at 38% right now. That is the second lowest approval rating of any incumbent president in their third term in modern history, second only to carter. The lowest third year approval rating where the incumbent won reelection was Obama with 45%. Biden can afford to lose 3% of his popular vote, assuming 2020 turnout and ignoring the electoral vote(spoiler, that’s a worse situation)
If you’d like to ignore reality and argue that Biden hasn’t lost any fraction of his support from this conflict, just because you personally could concede that issue, then feel free to completely ignore me. Keep reassuring everyone those numbers aren’t real and pray that this doesn’t sink him.
I personally think the only path to victory is Biden about facing in Isreal. That’s what I’d do if I was organizing: do everything in my power to push Biden to see reason. I can’t campaign on “yea Biden is materially supporting a genocide, but he’s not irredeemable” to progressives that are camping on campuses for weeks to months over it. There is nothing I could do to convince those people to vote.
Spend your time how you want but I think it’s far more sensible to try and sway Biden than it is to convince an entire cohort to vote for a candidate that’s complicit in genocide.
Ok, but concretely, how do you want to do that? This meme?
I believe you, you think that Biden’s support for Israel will ensure his defeat. What do you think could get him to change his position, I highly doubt he’s browsing lemmy.
I get your frustration and I read some of your other comments and I don’t really disagree with you. The thing is, the people disagreeing with you in this thread agree with the deeper concern. I’m concerned that Biden’s support for Israel will make him lose too. I don’t believe there is anything the voting public can do to change that support. I believe that support has been bought and paid for by the capitalists that want that support for whatever awful reason they have, and that our shambling “plutocracy in democracy clothing” means we won’t be able to change that.
So I look at the line you are pushing and I think, what are the likely outcomes of this effort.
- Biden retracting his support for Israel, no.
- Some people on lemmy getting disenchanted and sitting home, maybe.
- The horse race obsessed media running endless stories about Biden losing the left and the youth vote, which while true, act as a flywheel suppressing more voters, absolutely
And I just can’t figure out the point. Maybe you are more optimistic than me, maybe you still believe that shouting into the social media zone could swell a grassroots rebellion, get Biden to change his stance, and secure his victory. I just have a hard time believing it.
Now if you told me you were going to start a super pac and throw 10s of millions of dollars at the campaign but only if they move on Israel, yea, that could work. Shitposting here isn’t doing anything but demoralizing pragmatic leftists that understand what a shitty fucking dumpster fire of a system we have and are also worried Biden’s unwavering support for Israel is going to fuck us all over. And I struggle to understand who that helps
Watch Biden supporters lash out at communists and muslims if Biden fails to get reelected, rather than looking at the horrendous position the Democrats have taken.
I suspect their time is spent with leftists just because it’s so infuriating to talk to Republicans at all. The leftist will argue long term versus short term strategy, the Republican will argue about what his imaginary friend wants.
Lol I’ve been yelled at so much today I can’t even tell if this is sarcastic
Watch LGBTQ+ people get genocided right here in America because lefties decided not to vote against Fascism. Remind us again that you didn’t vote against it when that happens and see how people react.
This is a painful argument because this whole protest vote issue revolves entirely around the refusal to take the political risk of acknowledging or trying to stop a genocide.
Watch LGBTQ+ people get genocided
We’re armed, although liberals are doing everything they can to prevent it.
Red states are expanding their 2A rights while blue states limit their own. You have fascist militias popping up all over the place and what legislation do you think will disarm them? That cat is out of the bag. Us ‘lefties’ understand that Jon Stewart is not going to show up and save us with a witty quip when some christian nationalist has us on our knees in front of a ditch.
There may come a time we’ll all wish we had access to non-nerfed rifles and normal capacity magazines. Liberals are doing nothing productive to deal with this rise of fascism.
I’ll be voting democrat, but let’s not pretend that voting republican light is going to defeat christofascism.
As one of those LGBTQ+ people, I have no faith in people protecting me who won’t speak out against genocide
Yeah! And watch immigrants and migrants get deported en mass and draconian fascist law be implemented at the border…oh, what? That was Democrats too? Damn…
Well uh…bodily autonomy? No, dems had a chance to legislate that under Obama and refused to do so.
Hm…
Campaign finance reform? Oh, nope, they take the same corporate money.
The union won the civil war but the confederates won the reconstruction and have been winning since
Watch LGBTQ+ people get genocided right here in America because lefties
Conservative with a gun
LGBTQ dead body
Liberal: “Leftists did this. Now vote for me so I can pardon the conservative.”
Genocided? Lmao what? Bro, don’t cheapen the meaning of actual tragedies
Look at America under the ruling and cultural elite today: Inflation is ravaging family budgets, drug overdose deaths continue to escalate, and children suffer the toxic normalization of transgender- ism with drag queens and pornography invading their school libraries.
Project 2025 Mandate to Leadership. Page 1. Paragraph 2.
They want to barr transgender persons from the military again. Page 104.
The next HHS secretary should immediately put an end to the department’s foray into woke transgen- der activism.
Page 284. They also want CMS (center for Medicare services) to make a national coverage decision citing gender-reaffirming surgery as dangerous. Which has downstream repercussions to medicaid and private insurance. (That’s on page 474).
They want to cock-block Bostick, the ruling which extended sexual discrimination protections for transgender persons. (page 584).
Make no mistake. Transgenders are our conservatives Jews. You could replace “transgender”, “gay”, “LGBT”, “homosexual” etc in that document with “jew”, you’d swear it was written 90 years ago in Germany.
Cool bro. Still not a gEnOcIdE
Cool story bro, didn’t knew it is actual state policy to eradicate people. Surely the millions of deaths since the constitution was changed during Biden’s administration reach American doorsteps this very instant, while civil war and chaos reigns free in a rampant spree of gore and festivities, or gorestivus, as it is known, while millions of Americans drool in awe at your captivating message.
Still not genocide tho
Ah, another “you can’t call it genocide until after they actually do it” clown.
Get fucked, Nazi.
Owwwww my nose! Worth it though, piece of shit face!
Face: democratic coalition Nose: voters upset about supporting a genocide
Republicans also support genocide
I deleted this comment because I realized I don’t actually wanna take part in an extremely tribal ethno-religious debate. I’ll just say the following things everyone should agree on:
- Any government anywhere that holds one ethnicity or religion above another is fundamentally wrong and oppressive
- Everyone who minds their own business has a right to be safe from violence
- Maximizing good things and minimizing bad things is good, obviously. But this also applies to voting.
Oh, look… it’s the daily dose of “Genocide Joe” propaganda.
They throw around the word genocide like it’s candy
and you do genocide denial like it makes you seem credible
you do genocide denial
“You” in particular, or someone that they might vote for? Because it seems like you are trying to make it seem like some people actually condone the genocide. It’s hard to keep up with the various narratives.
i was just saying the person I was replying to does genocide denial, as they proceeded to show in more detail when they replied to your comment
I mean, Trump is also defending genocide too though…
Trump being worse deosn’t mean we can’t criticize Biden right now as the sitting president. I have been very supportive of the need to vote for Biden over Trump, but the Democrats need to stop doubling down on denying the atrocities in Gaza already.
Like they aren’t even using nuance or anything at this point. Threateninng the ICC is absolutely ridiculous.
This is unilaterally discrediting our country on the world stage. Trump was bad enough, but we could tell the world over half the county opposed him, and that he lost the popular vote.
This guy won the popular vote, and he’s out there supporting genocide. What a fucking embarrassment to humanity these “leaders” are. Fuck them both.
Obligatory yes, I will be voting for Biden again to fend off Trump. I’ll like it even less than I did last time, though.
First things first.
Criticizing Biden is fine, and everyone should, for the first three years and six months.
Also, if it wasn’t clear, Biden is super pissed off at Bibi for all his shit. But once trump is defeated we’ll all dogpile on. (Agree dissing ICC is vr bad as well fwiw)
Until then, there is not much difference between “not voting bc genoside” / “grr biden genocide democrats” and https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election/
I can only think people either are very aware of it (because it’s exactly right) or not aware of it at all, possibly their first time eligible to vote.
Bibi may lose this election for Biden, and spiral the world downward. This will only strengthen the ties the US has with Israel, however. Trump would absolutely throw a ton of weight behind them, and perhaps even involve the US directly in the genocide.
Bibi doesn’t give a shit about Biden, and Biden is showing an astonishing amount of weakness by not standing up to him. I’m fucking embarrassed for him, and the entire democratic party.
If the only possible outcome is a strengthening of relations with a genocidal colonial project then the American democratic experiment has been dead for a long time
the American democratic experiment has been dead for a long time
Yes?
@PugJesus@lemmy.world cough cough
That dude is the absolute worst.
It’s literally not a genocide. If Hamas gave up the hostages and their leaders who committed Oct 7th the war would end. That’s how you know it’s not a genocide. With facts and logic and stuff.
If Hamas gave up the hostages
Israel Gaza: Hostages shot by IDF put out ‘SOS’ sign written with leftover food
The Israeli hostages - Yotam Haim, 28, Samer Talalka, 22, and Alon Shamriz, 26 - were killed in the Shejaiya neighbourhood of Gaza City on Friday as Israeli troops face stiff resistance.
According to an Israeli military official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, the men emerged shirtless from a building, with one carrying a stick with a white cloth.
One of the soldiers, the official added, felt threatened, as the men were at a distance of tens of metres, declared them “terrorists” and opened fire. Two were immediately killed while the third, wounded, returned to the building.
Any country that intentionally withholds food, medicine, and potable water to a population it considers problematic is a nation that is intentionally committing genocide.
That is a pretty good definition. It’s also more stringent than the definition of the ICJ.
Congratulations on justifying genocide.
Yes I think I remember the ‘it’s not genocide when they’ve done something to deserve it’ part of article II
You didn’t even respond to what I actually said. You just repeated some phrase you’ve probably used before. It’s not a genocide because if the leadership gave up and they released their civilian hoststeges the war would be over. That’s how you know its not a genocide. If it was a genocide it wouldn’t matter if the leaders gave up or if they released the hoststeges.
You’re not responding to anyone that actually raises valid points you can’t address.
Why are you so invested in not recognizing a genocide happening right in front you?
You still haven’t responded to the person that pointed out that Israel has shot it’s own people that were hostages that escaped holding up SOS signs.
Also, one of the big points that is contentious for the peace talks is that Israel won’t promise a permanent cease-fire even if the hostages are returned.
You’re lying about that point. It’s provable that you’re lying, and the fact that you won’t engage on that point at all, except to spew more genocide denial lies clearly shows that you have such bad cognitive dissonance that you’re not even capable of rational argument.
That is literally not how you determine genocide.
There was genocide on Palestinians before Oct. 7th. Do you think a bunch of people randomly decided to attack Israel for fun?
How can there be a genocide of the Palestinians if their population has been steadily increasing over the last 50 years? Wouldn’t a real genocide result in a population decline?
Even setting aside “population growth” as a popular genocide denial trope, its a false claim. During the Gaza blockade dating back to 2008 the IDF implemented a policy designed to strictly limit the number of food calories entering the Gaza corridor, for the purpose of engineering famine as a limit on population growth.
Consequently, Gaza residents have some of the highest mortality figures in the world both in terms of shortened lifespans and high rates of infant mortality. Their population has been stagnant for decades, in a region where every other neighboring population has grown over time.
This is because of a deliberate Israeli policy to cap the number of Palestinian residents who can survive in Gaza. It is a textbook instance of a concentration camp.
Targeted extermination of civilians isn’t genocide? Interesting.
They aren’t targeting civilians. This is Internet misinformation. If you actually look at what’s happening instead of getting all your information from social media comments. Hamas is embedded underneath civilians. Hamas has said they want civilian deaths.
The IDF has said that they want civillian deaths, lmao. Stop defending the eviceration of tens of thousands of children, you’re an actual monster.
I’m quite literally not. But the way your acting is why nobody can have an actual truthful conversation about that’s happening.
Everyone else is truthfully acknowledging Israels stated and shown intentions as a fascist, genocidal aparthied state to wipe Palestinians off the face of the Earth.
The only solution to this conflict is the complete dismantling of Israel and replacing it with a democratic, secular state where Palestinians are equal citizens.
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo…
How about that starvation with Israel controlling and blocking all ingress and egress points on the Gazan border, eh?
Yeah, totally not targeting civilians. Are you this stupid for everything or just something you’ve swallowed the propaganda for?
I’m giving you the benefit of not being paid for this bullshit, but maybe I shouldn’t given the age of your account.
Its very simple.
If you think it’s bad now, for you, for Palestinians, for whoever, wait until Trump is in power. He’ll commit actual genocide, as in wipe them all out, as he claimed anyways, he’ll install himself as a dictator, as he claimed, and I’m not even starting with that Republican 2025 document that would like to make America into Gilead.
So shit up, swallow your pride, vote Biden. as soon as Biden is elected, protest all you want, block roads, whatever, but for now, vote Biden if you want the world to at least survive the next four years semi recognizably.
An actual genocide is happening right now. If biden doesn’t feel pressured to stop the genocide at the risk of losing votes in an election year, what makes you think he’ll stop it when he’s not at any risk of losing the election?
This is about preserving a system that’s at least recoverable in it’s current state. If you don’t vote for Biden your voting for an authoritarian regime and it’s not even an exaggeration. Trump just had a promo video referencing a new Reich in America.
This is the easiest decision American voters have ever had. Go look up what happened when Trump was in power for 4 years and what has happened with Biden for 4 years. We have data on how they both acted in power. That’s incredibly rare. Compare them objectively.
Moral high ground about Israel, while correct, is a hill compared to the mountain of evidence that shows what has happened and will continue to happen under trump if he returns to power. State secrets for sale, supreme Court seats, threats to never relinquish power, codified laws hunting down women who seek abortions, laws against trans and gays, j6 insurrection…you’re actively supporting that by not standing against trump.
Abstaining from voting for Biden this fall is a vote for Trump in a first past the post system. You will be complicit. You will literally be responsible for violence against minorities having played an active part in helping trump return to power. It’s hypocritical to allow that while condemning Biden on Israel.
I get it, I promise. I didn’t vote for Hillary or Trump in 2016 and I see now what that ended up doing to our country. I regret it. I won’t do it again.
It’s impossible to reconcile your disgust for Israeli support from America with the violence you will permit to minorities in America if you don’t vote for Biden. You’re not wrong for hating it, but you must realize what you’re going to do to people with a no vote or a throwaway vote.
Democrats preserve the status quo while republicans push things further to the right. Since our system guarantees that both parties will win at different times, the trajectory is always to the right. I’m voting for democrats down the entire ballot like I do every single election, but it will ultimately not make a meaningful difference. Democrats are using minorities as a shield for their own failings and inaction. If you don’t vote for democrats then they claim it’s your fault for whatever situation minorities find themselves in, but democrats do the bare minimum they can for minorities when they do get voted in. You’re providing a prime example when you use minorities in the US as an excuse to change the subject from genocide in Palestine.
“Identity politics” is a loaded term, but democrats will absolutely play different disadvantaged groups against one another to stop progress. They did it in 2016 when Bernie was talking about the need to help poor people and democrats came out with “but what about poor black people?!” even though democrats don’t do shit for poor black people either and as if poor black people aren’t included in the group of poor people.
I’m literally pointing out your hypocrisy. I’d rather noone one be suffering from a fanatical authoritarian figure be that netenyahu or Trump, but it isn’t a super secret centrist agenda to point out that you will be furthering the suffering of people domestically to make yourself feel good about protesting something that will happen under trump or Biden regardless.
Soapboxing about Democrats doing nothing is demonstrably false, the population has moved farther left quicker than the government, obviously. government is slow. But politics has always trended more progressive than it was in the past. The populace has to drag it kicking and screaming, but it does happen.
I’m probably further left than you, I’m further left than most people. Socialism, Karl Marx, anti capitalism, and French razor blades type stuff.
It doesn’t make me centrist to protect lgbtq folks and women at home with my vote. The fact that you’re salty that I’m pointing that fact out and you feel for some reason that that isn’t a meaningful difference is a you problem. I’m not here making excuses for the status quo to continue, it’s just the facts that we need to do that for now during this election to help the most people possible and your ignoring that.
I can vote for Biden and still criticize him and socially be part of a collective voice that is screaming for change. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. Your saying minorities have been a pawn for centrists to use, but your ideology is suggesting that it would be better to ignore them and allow violence against them to continue and ramp up under trump. All because other people are suffering, who, tragically, will continue to suffer regardless of the president. That’s insane and morally dispicable.
At least your still voting for Biden even if you don’t believe anything I’m explaining so thank fuck for that
I fucking hate that the only other option is a fascist tyrant with designs on overthrowing our government.
Jill Stein
If we had ranked choice voting across the board I might actually vote for her or another. But seeing as we only have two practical options, that’s not realistic to vote for her if we expect it to fend off the worse of two voting options. In other words, voting for her doesn’t help avoid Trump. It in fact draws votes away from the Biden option since she’s a green option which wouldn’t realistically draw any votes from the right.
Stop bending over for the duopoly. Do something about it like I am.
And what pray tell is that?
Supporting, donating, and spreading the message to friends and family about the Green party. It is the largest decent party in the US so a good base to build from. What everyone else on this site does is complain about voting for Joe Biden instead of doing anything.
Do you realistically see any possibility of the green party gaining enough traction by November to actually be a competitive option and defeat both alternative parties? Do you think it can go from 0.26% of the popular vote and 0% of the electoral college vote to obtaining a majority of 51%?
I applaud the commitment to a an ideal. But the ideal won’t stop a fascist regime in the form of Trump from setting in. We who complain about voting for Biden can see that Biden isn’t a good option. But he is the best chance of not getting Trump. So he begrudgingly gets a vote. I would love to live in a country that can have viable 3rd party options. But currently we aren’t there. And there is too much that will have to change to make it possible to realistically be a voting option. Every journey starts with a single step and all but until we get things passed like ranked choice voting, the green party will never see a national victory.
This election is unique with weak duopoly candidates and RFK polling up to 10% in some polls. So there is a chance for the Green party, a very slim one to win but realistically could achieve 5% to gain increased federal funding for future elections.
In my view Biden’s administration is just as fascist as Trump in their work to prevent a third party option. So that’s why I try to build a new party, but can understand if you see his administration differently.
Literally has a guidebook written and published as part of his campaign. And people still vote for him.
I wonder if either party has a level of depravity they’ll put up with before choosing to not vote for their candidate
My feeling is maybe not
Have you looked at Project 2025? It is absolutely a blueprint for total fascism. Destroy the FBI, DOJ, DHS, FCC, and FTC. Then replace tens of thousands of federal employees with party loyalists, and practice executive unilateral theory…essentially the idea that the president is all powerful and can act unilaterally.
If that’s not scary enough (because that is essentially the first few years of Nazi Germany in a nutshell)…let’s also cut the department of education so we can keep everyone stupid. Further bans on abortion and restrictions on contraception. Criminalize porn. Get rid of any federal DEI programs and eliminate discrimination and harassment protections for LGBT.
Then shrink the EPA and destroy NOAA. Roll back any climate change legislation and go full-steam on fossil fuels.
Reduce the number of generals (no doubt to keep loyalists and cronies).
It is literally impossible to read any one page of Project 2025 and see it as anything other than a blueprint for fascism and the destruction of America, essentially handing it over to corporations and party loyalists. And it is 920 pages long. And the book is only one part of Project 2025.
Oh, and most of this was just paraphrased from 3 paragraphs of the Wikipedia article. This is the tip of the iceberg.
This is cartoon level villainy. They are actually spelling out their plans directly in plain view for everyone, and his own supporters are completely ignoring it, because they are spoon-fed their “news” that conveniently doesn’t include this.
Maybe Biden should be less DOGSHIT, then I wouldn’t have to worry about him losing to that other, bigger piece of shit
Destroy the FBI, DOJ, DHS,
i want this, too. democrats railed against dhs as fascist when bush implemented it. fbi and doj enforce unjust laws. fuck all that. get rid of them all.
LESSER OF TWO EVILS The republicans are also pro genocide. Shut up Ivan!
While I agree with you, it’s very disingenuous to label everyone you disagree with a Russian bot on this matter. And people are very well in their right to criticize Biden for his political stance. Some people have family members that died in Palestine. You can’t expect them to jump with joy at the thought of voting for Biden.
I’m not saying Bidens stance on Palestine is favourable just that trumps is worse. Clearly both candidates are terrible, but trump winning could very well take away your ability to change that. If trump gets into power he will attempt to make any criticism of him illegal. So Israel will still be bombing the shit out of Gaza, but if you try to protest you’ll get shot.
As for the Ivan comment, the literal only person other than trump who benefits from a trump administration is Putin. So I have to assume that anti Biden memes originate with the fsb. It just stands to reason. Any rational thinking left leaning person knows what is at stake and wouldn’t be so foolish as to spread that shit.
So I have to assume that anti Biden memes originate with the fsb. It just stands to reason.
Imagine being so completely disconnected from reality that you don’t understand that people defend all kinds of positions all the time, whether they’re stupid, reasonable, well-thought or completely lacking in evidence. You would well to rethink the whole Russian bots narrative, because it turns you into a conspiracy nut unable to politically engage the people you’re trying to bring to your side.
ITT: you’re a Trump supporter if you call genocide genocide.
There’s a lot of people who plan on voting Biden, myself included, who effectively feel held hostage at this point. “Don’t criticize support for genocide or Trump is going to destroy the country and probably kill a lot of people” is probably one of the most frustrating political discourses I’ve ever experienced. The folks making this argument are right in that Trump winning is bad for everyone, including the Palestinians, and I can empathize with the pragmatism there. That said, that argument rings hollowly for me, because it comes across as so utterly cynical. It reads (to me) as though genocide registers at the same level of urgency as dysfunction at the DMV. They’re sorry for the inconvenience (and probably they really are sorry that it’s happening) but non-combatants getting starved, shot, drone striked, and buried under rubble by our allies is just not something that’s convenient to deal with right now. I wonder if they think the Palestinians find it very convenient.
This is such a weird strawman
Nobody on Lemmy likes genocide, as far as I can tell. I saw somebody who was in favor of it a couple days ago, which makes 2 users I have ever seen.
So first a whole bunch of people got up and said, I’m never voting for Biden because he ruined the economy and fucked up on climate change and made marijuana illegal again and did family separation and caused Covid and also personally did a genocide and is super happy about the war in Gaza because it’s exactly what he wanted
Then a second whole bunch of people said hey every single one of those things except part of the last one isn’t true, also, Trump is worse on the genocide piece
And so now the first people are insisting that what the second people said was, “Don’t criticize support for genocide”. That wasn’t the point. The fact that a good bit of what the people in the first group are saying, is wrong, means they get people disagreeing with them, which always gets misrepresented as some lunatic pro-genocide silencing of criticism. But it’s pretty much never a message of “please stop criticizing my genocide guy otherwise Trump might win.”
If you want to express urgency about helping the Palestinians, please do so. Send messages to your congresspeople. Vote “uncommitted.” Go to a protest. Tell Biden he’ll only get your vote if he (X, Y, Z). Any of those things, or something else. Sounds great.
I think the thing you’re hearing is more “I want to end genocide just as much as you do, now let’s talk about how to do it, and also yes how to avoid one that’s 10 times worse that depending on how we go about it might be one of the possible outcomes.” I don’t see why that would be frustrating to hear. And I don’t think it’s at all the same as “please stop criticizing Biden that’s not allowed” or anything like that. Most of the threads on this topic have their most upvoted comment as “Jesus Christ I wish he wouldn’t do that” or something along those lines; this fiction where criticizing Biden for enabling this genocide is at all unpopular is not at all the reality.
I wonder if they think the Palestinians find it very convenient.
Actually, one of them weighed in on Lemmy on this exact narrative, where people are using his dead relatives to justify this one very particular political stance about being reluctant to vote for Joe Biden (and for some reason not to justify getting involved in some electoral or non-electoral way to actually help his relatives who are still alive). He wasn’t about it.
Is it a straw man, though? Just look at the post we’re in. OP, at face value, wants the democrats to win but thinks they’re bungling the odds by supporting genocide. There’s already multiple commenters accusing them of being Trump supporters, as well as at least one commenter I’ve seen so far suggesting that we can’t be critical about this now because the election is too important.
I make the same comment in all these threads, but you don’t have to vote for Biden. I’m planning on voting psl this November and you can too.
Forgive me, but the only psl I know is Pumpkin Spice Latte. Care to explain?
Party for socialism and liberation. They’re running Claudia de la Cruz this go round.
As someone who voted 3rd party in 2016, I very much regret it. It was a wasted vote and helped Trump get in office. The very same thing can happen again. Don’t get me wrong, I hate that Biden is the candidate. I hated it in 2020 as well. The Democratic party is a joke when it comes to putting up candidates. Until we aren’t a two party system, we have to vote for the lesser of two evils with a plausible chance of winning. If not and Trump wins again, we will only move backwards again. It felt like we took two steps backwards and a half step forward.
How we can generate change is by starting at the local level. Ranked choice voting has already begun at many local level elections. We need to campaign for this and for candidates that can make that happen.
