"Well, if I were him I’d want to debate me too. He’s got nothing else to do.”

  • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    The guy who refused every debate until now?

    Trump would refuse debates if given a neutral moderator. And I promise if he did a single debate he’d complain it was unfair no matter the outcome.

  • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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    9 months ago

    Glad Biden didn’t take the bait, all debating him at this point would do was help cement the idea that Donald Trump is THE definitive Republican candidate

    • linearchaos@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      I mean, he will be, unless we get to shut him down in court. Then he’s going to run the biggest write in candidacy ever seen.

  • nutsack@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    it’s never a debate. I’ve never seen one that was a debate. Trump would ignore the questions, say edgy shit and get laughs, and basically win

    Biden is right to not platform an insurrectionist

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Debates aren’t part of the election process, they’re part of the entertainment process. And if Biden doesn’t agree to do the age-old Three Debate monkey dance, the Undecided Voter will grow angry and support the Fun Candidate instead.

      Or, at least, that’s a theory. There’s another theory that debates are dumb nerd shit that nobody who hasn’t already made up their minds watch anymore. And - much as a bunch of Senators and Governors have refused to debate during safe election years - Biden’s refusal to meet Trump on national TV will actually make him Cool and Based.

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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        9 months ago

        It’s not even “dumb nerd shit” these days. Current “debates” are little more than ways of generating soundbites. The moderators don’t do moderation and they refuse to cut mics for those who aren’t up. It’s entertainment and propaganda/campaign marketing, not debating.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          The moderators don’t do moderation and they refuse to cut mics for those who aren’t up.

          You don’t really need to cut mics when you control the cameras and get to edit this shit in post during the Sunday Morning Talk Shows.

          The vast majority of people don’t watch the debates live. They just get the reactions after the fact.

          It’s entertainment and propaganda/campaign marketing, not debating.

          The future of politics is a new generation of celebrity candidates. And I don’t even know if that’s a bad thing, considering how many of our last generation’s candidates came out of a vat in the basement of some East Coast Ivy League boarding school.

          • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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            9 months ago

            The vast majority of people don’t watch the debates live. They just get the reactions after the fact.

            I gave up on any of em after getting annoyed at the complete lack of debate in the “debates”.

            The future of politics is a new generation of celebrity candidates. And I don’t even know if that’s a bad thing, considering how many of our last generation’s candidates came out of a vat in the basement of some East Coast Ivy League boarding school.

            New boss, same as the old boss. Hard to say that there will be any difference as, since the embrace of neoliberalism, there’s been virtually zero politicians doing anything more than attempting to look like they’re trying to do anything for the populace but are somehow completely powerless to do anything but help their bribers-erm…“lobbyists” squeeze more out of those that can barely afford anything.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              there’s been virtually zero politicians doing anything more than attempting to look like they’re trying to do anything

              One of the big appeals of Trump is that he grasps at every lever of power he can find and pulls it.

              Nine times out of ten, it isn’t connected to anything. But if you pull on enough shit, maybe a big border wall or a Muslim ban or a repeal of Roe v Wade or a giant bucket of cash falls out and your voters love you for it.

      • davepleasebehave@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        you can’t beat trump in a debate really. he will shit everywhere and his supports will guzzle residues. what’s the point.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          you can’t beat trump in a debate really.

          You can. He’s a B-list stand up so you bring your A-game.

          But Biden isn’t a professional comedian. He’s not going to roast Trump in a game of The Dozens.

          what’s the point.

          When you’ve got a friendly press corps, you do a debate and let the media stunt on the opposition for you.

          There’s going to be a 5 second clip of one of them stumbling or mispronouncing a word, and then the next week long news cycle becomes “Does Candidate Have Alzheimer’s? Here’s a dozen Dr. Oz tier talking heads to tell you he might!”

          But when conservatives have their own big, invasive, and professionalized hatchet men teams, there’s a legit fear among Democrats that they will be more likely on the receiving end.

          • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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            9 months ago

            You can’t beat Trump in a debate because thats like beating a chimp in a hotdog eating contest. End of the day he’s just gonna throw shit at you and you’re just gonna gobble down a bunch of wieners. You won, but at what cost?

          • Furbag@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            I have to disagree. You can’t reasonably debate someone whose arguments aren’t based in reality. Trump’s tactic since 2016 has been to use whatever platform that he’s been given to smear and denigrate his opponents at every opportunity and to lie about how all of the problems we face can be easily solved if only he were allowed to do it. When questioned on actual policy matters, he spouts complete nonsense that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, but since it’s a fast paced debate he can make up bullshit and nobody will fact check him. Even if by some miracle the moderators do fact check him, he will turn to attack them and say they are politically biased against Trump, etc. etc.

            It’s a zero-win situation. Trump will never lose points for bad behavior among his base, and he only stands to benefit from the increased exposure. Biden meanwhile can’t score a goal when the goalpoasts are motorized to move backwards at this point and only invites unnecessary risk of flubbing or tripping up, which will be played back on repeat on political talk shows to harm him.

            I don’t disagree that he could totally beat him, but when the opposition is always playing a game of Texas Sharpshooter, Trump only stands to earn bullseyes while Biden is just wasting ammo.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              You can’t reasonably debate someone whose arguments aren’t based in reality.

              The point of a televised political debate isn’t to win your opponent to your side. The point is to establish to the outside viewer that your position and your personage is more fit to the task of governing than your opponent.

              For a candidate who is divorced from reality, this is typically pretty easy. You point out a few things that the opponent disagrees with and that your audience knows to be true. Then you provoke the opponent into saying something outlandish, attack the absurd allegation, and put up a far more attractive countervailing position/policy that people are more likely to believe practical.

              The problem Biden has is that he’s also immersed himself in propaganda. He isn’t willing to accept the rising poverty or the failing liberal institutions at home. He’s backed an ugly unpopular war in Ukraine and a fucking outright genocide in Palestine. His fixation on bipartisanship has left him once again getting Lucy-with-the-football’d on immigration. His slavish loyalty to the banks means he’s back to harping about a balanced budget and gutting popular public services. He’s constantly saying how he can’t do anything as President, while insisting that a future Trump Presidency would be totally unchecked, which didn’t make sense when Obama claimed it in the wake of Bush and now has completely run itself through.

              And he’s OLD. Really fucking old. He’s even more prone to gaffs and flubs than he was sixteen years ago.

              Trump will never lose points for bad behavior among his base

              Trump’s base isn’t enough to win a general election. But “bad behavior” is its own reward when its directed at someone the crowd doesn’t like. That’s what really makes Trump dangerous. If he were to try and tussle with Biden on the debate stage in 2020, an enormous number of people would be disgusted. But now that so many of those people have soured on Biden, I suspect you’d see quite a few of those same voters applaud.

              Even then, the thing Biden really has to worry about isn’t the Obama-Trump-Biden swing voter nearly so much as it is the Ohio or Virginia or Arizona or Georgia voter who refuses to vote for either one of these assholes. He needs to rally his base, regardless of who his opponent is. Trump being an asshole on stage matters far less than Biden advertising a future four years in this country that isn’t just four more years of shit.

          • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            But when conservatives have their own big, invasive, and professionalized hatchet men teams, there’s a legit fear among Democrats that they will be more likely on the receiving end.

            Which is why the Democrats should have put someone else up for re-election, someone who can defend themself well.

            • Carlo@lemmy.ca
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              9 months ago

              Nobody thinks Biden is an ideal candidate. Most Democrats didn’t want him 4 years ago, but every other candidate dropped out and endorsed him in order to prevent Sanders from getting the nomination. Not that Bernie would be the best candidate either in 2024, given his age; the point is we didn’t want Biden, but we’re stuck with him now.

              No sitting president has ever lost their party’s primary. What’s more—and not surprisingly—the ones that have faced significant primary challenges have gone on to lose in the general. If a president wants to run again, the party isn’t going to stop him, and Biden has long since made that decision.

      • aidan@lemmy.worldM
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        9 months ago

        I agree, my political theories of what is popular in the general public is based on sigma edits. Say something dumb but put phonk or synth wave music in the background and I will agree with you.

        Edit: I now support Serbian war criminals

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Edit: I now support Serbian war criminals

          The important thing is that you’re supporting some group of War Criminals.

          Moderate Rebels. Based Chads. Antifa Supersoldiers. Guys firing rockets from Yemen into the Red Sea. Guys firing rockets from Israel into Gaza. Guys driving fertilizer bombs up to the FBI building on Oklahoma. Guys dropping surplus munitions on the MOVE community center in Philly. Guys flinging pipe bombs into abortion clinics. Guys blowing up pipelines in Texas or under the Baltic Sea or anywhere that lets me fist-pump and shout “You fuckin’ gottem, mate!”

          Literally just anything that involves hard looking motherfuckers doing John Wick / Jason Statham shit with the highest body count imaginable.

          Please just promise me that There Will Be Blood.

          • aidan@lemmy.worldM
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            9 months ago

            Exactly, doesn’t everyone know casually killing people makes you cool. Especially if you’re in plain clothes and the footage looks like it’s from the 80s or 90s. I don’t know who shot first in Waco, but I do know who looked cooler, and it’s not the nerds wearing body armor.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              In a war of swag, David Koresh had it and Janet Reno did not.

              Unfortunately, this was a war that involved tanks. And Janet Reno was undeniably a bigger tankie.

    • Shake747@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      9 months ago

      Biden is like Trump’s kryptonite. Trump always tries to get in the other guys head.

      Can’t get in Biden’s head…Bidens not in there, good luck dude

      • Shane Gillis
      • techt@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        That guy has the BEST impersonation I’ve ever seen, it’s repulsive! Not just the voice, but the hands, the sucking air through the teeth, the head tilts and mouth movements, all spot-on. You know how you have to wonder about the mental state of horror game/movie artists looking at reference material all day? Same feeling about Shane Gillis.

      • hansl@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        There is a distinction between nonsense and lies though, and it’s not intent. Trump nonsense is closer to just insanity and dementia than lies. For telling lies, first you have to make sense.

      • BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Even his lies don’t make sense at this point. They are just incoherent rambling that is indistinguishable from his “normal” incoherent rambling.

      • maynarkh@feddit.nl
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        9 months ago

        He wants to do it to appear as the clear Rep nominee. He doesn’t get to step over Haley if Biden’s not down.

  • dharwin@kbin.social
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    9 months ago

    No one should ever debate Trump unless the moderator has a “shut the fuck up” switch to cut off the mic. That dumbass has a diarrhea firehose for a mouth, and no self control or manners.

    • Mamertine@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      And a fact checker that will interrupt blatant lies.

      Trump says things that are incorrect and asserts that reality is a lie.

      • Jeredin@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        For far too long people have been under the illusion that politicians try and debate in good faith and to some extent certain politicians do - Biden will spin facts into a better light or down play some issues; that’s politics, right? But Trump is everything bad in politics and perhaps humanity, all wrapped into one. To give that a microphone is bad enough, but to think you can “debate” such a thing, should be someone’s first and last mistake. It’s pointless because there’s no new perspective for Trump to bring to America’s current situation; Biden knows this. In many ways, you either vote against Trump because you know what he is, or you vote for Trump because you believe what he wants you to know; he only brings “alternate facts,” and again, Biden knows this.

    • Plopp@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      I’d prefer it if all candidates had their own sound proof booth. Cut the mic and activate the window blur/block the millisecond they go over time, go off topic, deflect or just spew mouth diarrhea. And make sure it’s locked, too.

    • RGB3x3@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Oh fuck, please please please let this happen.

      “Since you sat out all those Republican debates, we thought you weren’t interested. Sooorry

  • paddirn@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    He shouldn’t agree to debate Trump on the grounds that he’s not qualified to run for president, given that he plotted an insurrection.

    • neptune@dmv.social
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      9 months ago

      I’m not sure it will ever behoove Biden to take a position on this. Last time he was asked I think he answered that it didn’t matter to him.

      If Biden comes out strongly and says he is ineligible, it’s just tempting SCOTUS to disagree, and have all the morons say he is scared of Trump. And obviously he won’t come out and say he is eligible because that would be stupid, counterproductive and wrong.

  • FabledAepitaph@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    It’s not really a debate when your opponent’s metrics for winning is simply to speak more loudly, more aggressively, and to refuse to shut the fuck up more intensely than anybody else in the room.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Okay, but that’s basically every debate. Hell, that’s the optimal strategy in a crowded field. Meekly sitting in the back with a pile of spreadsheets that say “I’m right” on them does nothing to galvenize public support for your policies.

      Even then, Biden refusing to meet Trump on stage won’t discourage Trump from doing his whistle stop Beer Hall tour. At some point, I think liberals lose sight of how important big crowds of people cheering at your approach is in a popularity contest. When Biden shows up at an event, he’s greeted by a few dozen angry protesters, calling him Genocide Joe and waving big blown up pictures of dead Palestinian children. When Trump shows up at an event, he’s greeted by a few dozen enthusiastic supporters, calling him the New Messiah and waving big blown up pictures of drowned children in the Rio Grande with “Win One More For the Gipper” scrawled across it.

      Totally different energy at these events. Totally different reception by the party’s base voters.

      If Biden wants to position himself as the “Guy Who Will Protect You From Trump Who Is Worse”, he’s going to have to get out in front of an audience, side by side with Trump, and remind everyone of the distinction. Otherwise, he’s just running in a vacuum as a mediocre President during an economic upswing, and hoping people give him credit for a rising stock market without blaming him for his party’s failure to deliver on any of their major platforms in the last 40 years.

      • Mnemnosyne@lemmynsfw.com
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        9 months ago

        It’s a shame it didn’t happen…maybe, just maybe, if Bernie had trounced Trump in a debate, there wouldn’t have been that whole Bernie is unelectable/would lose to Trump idea floating so strongly, and it might’ve given him a better chance in the primary either time.

        • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          It wouldn’t have mattered. The “unelectable” narrative was coming from the DNC leadership. Bernie was polling just fine until everyone started saying he couldn’t win.

          • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            I remember all the networks showing the number of delegates he and Hillary had, and they showed all the super delegates going to Hillary. Not only had they never shown votes like that before, but the super delegates hadn’t even voted at that point. It was all just based off the assumption that they would all vote for Hillary. Thumb on the scale.

            • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
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              9 months ago

              Thumb on the scale.

              That’s the whole point of super delegates. The consequence in 2016 being that Hillary only needed about 30% in a given primary to “win” that state.

              EDIT: Curious about the downvote. Superdelegates made up a large enough share of delegate that to win a majority of delegates for a given state she only needed about 30% of the primary vote plus the superdelegates. Do the math yourself if you’d like to confirm. Hell, I’m from a state where Clinton only got about 35% of the vote in the primary, which meant she only got one more delegate than Sanders, who had closer to 51%.

            • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Hillary had bought their support from the beginning. She learned from 2008 that she couldn’t compete in an open field, so she wrangled all challengers before the primaries started. Sanders was the only one who couldn’t be bought.

        • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
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          9 months ago

          The worst thing for Republican voter turnout is hearing a Bernie Sanders speech. The dude shows up in a coal miner town hall and convinces them all to vote blue.

    • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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      9 months ago

      I’ll seriously consider debating you once - no, I’m sorry: IF - you win the Republican Primary.

      Can you imagine how fucking infuriating that would be to Trump?

  • Pavidus@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    I’m torn. On one hand, debates should take place to show knowledge/professionalism/action plans, etc. Also, it showcases (yet again) what a fucking idiot he is. On the other hand, he hasn’t done a debate so far for this presidential race, so why start now? It’s been nice hearing about him slightly less.

    Also…how the fuck are debates not somehow mandatory to end up in the presidential race?

    • deft@lemmy.wtf
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      9 months ago

      debates haven’t been legit for decades and since then they progressively get worse

  • Xhieron@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    If it weren’t for the fact that this shit has real consequences, I’d suggest Biden should invite Haley to debate the president just for spite.