On the one hand, he fumbled his words a few times pretty poorly. On the other hand, he didn’t spend an hour blatantly lying.
I was watching CNN’s coverage. I thought Biden did alright, asides from a few notable blunders that he recovered from. CNN’s coverage made it sound like he needed to have his adult diapers changed mid question.
It’s crazy how they’re completely ignoring any substance of the debate and solely focusing on appearances. It’s almost like that’d favour a populist candidate or something.
Yeah Trump spent an hour blatantly lying.
But people believe him.
That’s not a win.
It should be the media’s responsibility to thoroughly fact check both parties. If that means they have to pre-submit their primary answers and read them off a teleprompter, then so be it.
You’re right, it wasn’t a win, but it should have been.
CNN can’t help themselves. They need to compete with social media I guess.
I dunno, that debate just made me sad.
CNN can’t help themselves.
I wonder if that has anything to do with CNN’s chairman and CEO, Mark Thompson, ranked by Forbes as the 65th most powerful person in the world. 🤔
Would someone like that benefit from tax cuts to the ultra-wealthy?
I don’t think it’s even about candidates, but just focusing on appearances.
That’s what grabs attention and makes money. Even the robotic social media feed algorithms know this.
What makes money for billionaires is influencing who sets their tax rates.
Didn’t this guy say that he wanted to makeCNN more “centrist”? So I guess what he meant by that was pull it a few inches to the right…
At first I was sad. Then I was very angry. And now I’m scared.
Me too. The last of my hope for this country is gone.
you are trying to gaslight me. i want the democrats to win so we don’t have trump, and they’re voluntarily trotting out this fucking corpse.
sure, it shouldn’t be about appearances, but it is, because that’s how most people interpret the debates (especially because it’s part of the job for politicians to lie and that isn’t exactly a meaningful shock at this point). that’s the worst i’ve ever seen anybody do in a debate in my life.
I fucking despise Biden for his policy in Palestine. If there was any reasonable chance that they could switch candidates now and still have a shot, I’d totally agree with you.
I think he’s way too old to be president, but I’m sorry to say you’re stuck with a shit decision, and one that’s been engineered to help work against our best interests.
I fully get where you’re coming from, but I’m not trying to gaslight you.
fucking despise Biden for his policy in Palestine
I’m not an American and even I know it is not his policy. It is a result of decades of US-Israel relationships with all kinds of ties between the two countries and has far too many stakeholders than just the head of the state.
Not even Bernie could’ve managed to navigate this shit situation properly.
Bernie would’ve led Bibi by the fucking nose. He’d have recalled his days in the kibbutz and said that Bibi is burning everything good about Israel.
Perhaps. I wish that were the reality we lived in. I also wish Gore won over Bush and we nipped Global warming in the bud. Alas…
I also wish Gore won over Bush
He did win, and then SCOTUS declared the loser of the election POTUS in one of the most catastrophic decisions of any in the history of the world, given the later consequences.
sorry but bernie is a zionist too
He is, but he’s not the type that would kowtow to and enable fascists or fund genocide.
But thats what being a zionist is, you cant be a zionist without supporting the IDF which has been engaged in the constant subjugation and extermination whenever politically possible for decades now.
The president isn’t a king. Bernie would’ve had lot of resistance from within the government, military, and intelligence agencies.
Deep state isn’t just a conservative meme/boogeyman. It definitely exists.
The president isn’t a king
Enough with that ridiculous excuse every time Biden refuses to do things that ARE within his power!
He bypassed Congress by sending many smaller weapons shipments to Israel so that he didn’t need congressional approval and when he halted shipment of 2000lb bombs only, he could have halted shipment of ALL weapons but chose not to.
Furthermore, knowing what they do with them, supplying the fascist apartheid regime of Israel is against both international and US law.
He’s enough of a “king” to keep committing crimes against humanity, but apparently NOT actively breaking the law is outside the bounds of his power 🙄
I don’t know… I see what you’re saying, but does the president not have the power to take a principled stance on the matter? Maybe I’m being too naïve about what’s realistically possible, but ultimately intended policy decisions have to start at the mouth of the nation’s leader.
He needs to firmly acknowledge and denounce the ongoing genocide in Palestine.
Can someone remind me of the last time a U.S. president took a principled stand on some foreign policy issue? Seriously, I’m not just asking this to be a dick. I’m pretty sure things are set up to ensure this does not ever happen.
Biden pulling out of Afghanistan.
Obama pulled out of Iraq.
Biden pulled out of Afghanistan.
I mean, he certainly did say that he wants to increases taxes on the ultra-wealthy.
It’s not a foreign policy issue, but it’s one that would be unpopular with any rich donors so it perhaps demonstrates some amount of integrity.
Just to be clear, I’m not trying to defend the US. Their foreign policy is stinkier than blue cheese.
Their foreign policy is stinkier than blue cheese.
And doesn’t even compensate by also being delicious, like the cheese does!
Unless you have a significant profit stake in the military industrial complex and/or the fossil fuel industries, of course. Then it’s the most delicious thing ever.
Sure, but didn’t Biden go on a rant of how pro-Israel he is specifically?
He did, and I’m not trying to downplay that in any way. He also called for peace, though, whereas Trump said he was also pro-Israel but thought Israel should finish what they started.
is not his policy.It is a result of decades of US-Israel relationships with all kinds of ties between the two countries
Yeah it is. Obama said about the Cuban Embargo that “these 50 years have shown that isolation has not worked”, so he changed longstanding policy.
Meanwhile, letting Israel do whatever the fuck they want to Palestinians for 75 years hasn’t made the treatment more just (duh) or the region more stable and peaceful, and the majority of the population realizes that now.
People are demanding of Biden and the rest of the Dem leadership, which are the people with the power to do so, to change the awful status quo of total deference to a fascist apartheid regime and Biden et al are risking the election and thus American democracy by refusing to listen to the people who they are supposed to represent.
An embargo on a small island nation has nothing in common with a key strategic ally in the middle east. Why are we comparing these two? Are you for real now
It has one thing in common and that’s the thing I was referring to:
In both cases, the president has the power to change bad policy, no matter how longstanding.
Obama chose to make the right choice under little to no pressure (except from people adamant that he should do the opposite) while Biden is insisting on the wrong choice in spite of intense pressure and a very significant risk that it’ll cost him the election.
The specifics of Cuba has nothing to do with it.
You’re not addressing the central point of my claim and simply restating your initial statement: that the president can change policy
has the power to change bad policy
while ignoring the key difference between Cuba and Israel. They are completely dissimilar situations with vastly different implications. The progressive left --which cares so much about genocide suddenly (forget Yemen, Syria, where more people have died int he last 6 years by an order of 10 than the entire palestine-israel conflict in the last 100 years)-- made up their mind about Biden long before Oct 7. The only way for Joe to pander to their vote is by accomplishing miracles at this point and I think that ship has sailed a long time ago so I really doubt they are the key demographic that will cost him his election.
It’s come to the point where the risk of changing the candidate has to be weighed against the risk of not changing the candidate.
And it has been. The risk of sticking with Biden is the greater one by far. He’s losing the election and showing no willingness to change any of the behaviors that are causing it.
Switching to another candidate might be a controversial choice, but it’s still a safer bet than Biden.
Na. It’s a pretty clear and easy decision. Neither option gonna get ya what you want and need, but one option is actively trying for a disastrous result.
Unfortunately, too many people in the USA say the same thing and mean the opposite candidate.
Regarding Palestine, not a single president would or could have done any different. You made your bed there, now you have to give it money. It’s the same with us here in the UK.
The president could choose to not sign the bill sent by Congress for further funding. Congress might pass it with veto proof majority but it would still be making a statement. So, not exactly true
Oh they’re 100% gaslighting you. But they’re also gaslighting themselves, so I guess that makes it fair?
I thought Biden did alright
He just didn’t. In any other previous cycle, it would not have been considered acceptable. The bar has gotten very low.
Biden looked senile, and Trump looked like regular, crazy Trump. The senility will do more for voters than Trump being Trump.
Exactly, people expect Trump to be Trump, but they expect Biden to not be senile.
What a sorry state of affairs.
The issue is appearances are all that mattered. I don’t believe anyone who was interested enough in politics to watch that debate was undecided. It’s now time for the campaigns to cut up the debate to use for ads that will actually reach the undecided voters. I feel it’s going to hurt Biden a lot more than Trump.
Yeah, I don’t disagree. Those who make their decisions by disregarding policy are probably not going to be doing the right things for the right reasons anyways.
If they tip the balance and that means a dictatorship, there’s nothing anyone can do to stop it short of global intervention.
I’m hoping the reason this debate was agreed to so early is that the DNC needs to know if they’ve got to work out a plan B. The convention is scheduled for the end of August so until then Biden isn’t the official candidate. Like, if in 2 months they’re polling at 30%, I don’t see how they can go “oh yeah, this is definitely a losing strategy. Let’s stick with it”. Why not switch it up? You’re losing already. The worst that can happen is you still lose.
This is exactly what I’m thinking. So next then, who do they run instead?
BTW remember when like three years ago Biden said multiple times he would only serve one term? smdh
The obvious answer is Harris. The less obvious but I think better option is Buttigieg. He’s not who I would pick ideally, but I think people still remember him and he’s part of the Biden adm.
I’m pretty confident they’re running Biden unless he dies though.
Bootygig would piss a lot of the base off to pass over a POC woman who would literally be president anyways the moment Joe croaks.
He’s probably a better pick for the country, but the DNC doesn’t give a shit about that. I don’t think he’s a particularly strong pick, but he’s better than Harris.
I think the best option to win the election would be to pick someone that’s not a part of the current administration. And we can definitely count on that not happening. The DNC is too up their own ass with everyone getting their compensation for previous “support” once the positions open up.
I agree totally. He’s not the best option, just the best option that’s plausible if we entertain the hypothetical that Joe isn’t running. Also, yeah it probably would piss some people off to skip Harris, so it’s probably her no matter what.
Keep digging yall, we need the bar to go lower!
Invade the US to spread freedom? What goes around comes around I guess. Fuck our shit up, go nuts! Don’t worry, everything is already broken.
It’s crazy how they’re completely ignoring any substance of the debate and solely focusing on appearances. It’s almost like that’d favour a populist candidate or something.
I thought Biden seemed a little worse than you did, but I mostly agree with you. There’s no possible thing that could happen now that would make me cast any vote that might assist Trump getting in regardless. BUT, it’s absolutely legitimate that folks should have an opinion about not only the health of the President today, but his likely health at the end of his next term. I think they really amplified it in the post-debate coverage beyond what was reasonable or wise, but I do think it’s a reasonable concern for someone to have.
Biden looked like they injected meth into his balls right before he went on stage. Kinda hard to ignore him staring through bits of furniture and smiling at leprechauns.
I’m shocked he performed at all with how high he was. I’d wonder as well if he needed assistance during that whole thing.
So the choice is between a senile old man with good intentions and a treasonous, syphalitic crook. And the crook has a non zero chance of winning.
Fuck me, what a shit show.
a treasonous, syphalitic crook.
…that’s also a senile old man.
The odds are currently 60% Trump. What a disaster.
They are both senile
Lol joe biden has no good intentions
Care to provide your receipts?
A guy that supports a Genocidal ethno-Fascist regime doesn’t have “good intentions”, not even by the lousy standard of the subset of politicians that climb their way into the position of “leader of a major country” - normal human beings don’t give guns to people purposefully murdering tens of thousands of children, starving 2 million people and targetting journalists and medical personnel.
“Not quite as extremelly bad intentions as the other guy” would be a more correct take.
Trying to spin this as a “good guy vs bad guy” is quite a tribalist take on a plague vs pestilence contest.
But like, you realize how much more manageable pestilence is, right? That’s the whole point. Stuff your both sides shit up your ass
That’s the rational take and I’m sure plenty of people will vote Biden following that rationale.
The top poster’s “pestilence is a good thing” (i.e. Biden is a “good guy”) statement on the other hand is insanelly tribalist and pure fantasy.
Being a Lesser Evil by comparison with an extremelly Evil option is not at all the same as being Good.
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The difference that you fail to point out is that one guy, Biden, has been (unsuccessfully so far) trying to rein in Bibi and his genocidal policies, where as Trump has told Bibi to hurry up and finish exterminating Palestine. If you can’t see a clear difference you are not paying attention.
Most of what biden has done is political posturing. It’s only to placate the voters and for them to think he wants to do something when in fact he’s a die hard zionist.
Lots of talk, no action: that’s bullshit Political Propaganda 101 when a politician in power wants to do something which most of his voters are strongly against.
His Administration’s actions are exactly the opposite, from the weapons shipments to Israel going around Congress that included 2000lb bombs to UN Vetos and saying that the ICJ shouldn’t even be evaluating the case against Israel for Genocide (clearly this Administration fears a veredict of “guilty”, which means they do believe Israel is likely comitting what amounts to Genocide under International Law).
The non-sociopath path for America would’ve be “Perfect Neutrality” (no action at all), yet Biden choses actual military and diplomatic support, including condemning anti-Genocide demonstrators as “anti-semitic” and condoning the use of police violence against them all the while in this specific subject lying just as shamelessly as Trump.
The non-sociopath path for America would’ve be “Perfect Neutrality” (no action at all)
Reminds me of the rail union workers trying to strike.
Ok yeah wow Biden sucks so you think he’s worse than the other guy? The guy who thinks we should do more?
Your “you’re not with us so you must be against us” is an old Fascist trope.
Might want to tone down that rabid tribalism as your “arguments” are awfully close to the other guys style of argumentation.
I’m not at all tribalist I’m just not ignorant of the two-sided nature of this election.
Good intentions? He’s a genocide supporter - hardly a paragon of virtue
So youre saying you think Trump doesn’t support genocide? Or are you saying it doesn’t matter you just wanna bash Biden.
Congress loves genocide, doesn’t matter which president.
Please don’t become the thing you likely abhor (Trumpists and alike) by reacting in a knee jerk fashing to things that “insult” your tribalist morals with a variant of the Fascist take “If you’re not with us, you’re against us”.
It’s perfectly rational and reasonable to think that Biden is not a “guy with good intentions” whilst also thinking that Trump is no better, whilst it’s irrational and unreasonable to think that just because one doesn’t like Person A, one must like Person B.
By any human being standards anybody who supports somebody mass murdering children with weapons is a shit person, hence Biden is a shit person. That doesn’t mean Trump is any less shit.
Even by American President Moral standards (which, sadly are way lower than Normal Person Moral standars, when they should be higher), activelly supporting with weapons a nation committing Genocide is pretty bad, though far from novel.
Ok there chatgpt.
This would make sense if i had made any of those points. Clearly if youre making arguments like “genocide joe” you’re just in bad faith, because it’s genocide presidency atm.
You may not have understood the game yet, but people who aren’t ready to serve the military industrial complex don’t become president.
I thought whataboutism was like a cardinal sin to redditors
Good thing we’re on lemmy.
But it’s not whataboutism when we compare the two presidential candidates on their platform and actions.
That’s interesting. Why does that standard change so much in the context of presidential candidates compared to every other situation?
Like, if someone was criticizing, say, Fidel Castro, and instead of addressing it I brought up the problems with the Batista regime that he opposed, would that be whataboutism? Just as in a presidential election, there were two realistic possibilities, either Batista stays in power or he’s overthrown. So if it’s valid to divert from criticism of Biden towards problems with his most realistic alternative, Trump, then why would it not be valid to do the same thing with Castro and Batista, or any number of similar cases?
We are talking about a stance of two presidential candidates, the context matter when talking whataboutism.
In this case, the stance of both candidates on Israel is part of their political platform and we’re in the presidential campaign.
Whataboutism would be Republicans defending Trump on its criminal charge by talking about Hillary’s emails. Those two things are unrelated.
Understood. So as long as I’m talking about the same metric, I’m allowed to bring up how things were before a socialist government came to power and that’s not whataboutism.
Their username is redditwanderer which is why I referenced reddit and in debatebro terms arguing against the statement about joe biden not being “well intentioned” because he supports genocide by bringing up how trump is worse is whataboutism.
I am dense and didn’t catch that.
This would make sense if the argument wasn’t used like Trump wouldn’t do the same. “Genocide joe” is just a bad argument when comparing presidents, not on it’s own.
We can talk about what Biden is doing wrong, but that’s not why they are bringing it up as the only argument they have.
Plus, Trump is going to turn around and enabled a second genocide in Ukraine.
Good intentions? He’s a genocide supporter - hardly a paragon of virtue
where are they implying trump wouldnt do the same? Imagine someone claimed hitler was evil and Roosevelt well intentioned. Someone pointing out that roosevelt was responsible for the unnecessary detonation of two atomic bombs over civilian population centers is not coming to hitlers defense. Roosevelt was a racist scumbag and so is Biden. None of this is a defense of trump.
No matter how you are going to vote, your next president will be a “genocide supporter”.
I’d pick the one that’s a bit less enthusiastic about it.
No matter how you are going to vote, your next president will be a “genocide supporter”.
Canvassing my block with this message to really juice the turn out
Be sure to let your block know that Trump’s Genocide™ comes with a side of anti-LGBTQ+ laws. More restrictive laws for abortion, and a neat little thing called Project 2025
Sadly, the Biden administration has done nothing to halt the deluge of anti-LGBTQ+ laws sweeping the nation at the state and local level.
Project 2025 is already being rolled out. And we’ve seen Democrats willing to compromise on chunks of it (the TikTok ban jammed through the House as a condition of Ukraine military funding) even from the majority. As disenfranchisement rates surge in purple-red states, we’re going to see Republicans grow bolder and Democrats more desperate to appeal to the shrinking pool of centrist voters.
So…. To fight this, your suggestion is…… to do nothing. Got it!
Brilliant plan! Let’s call everyone with this new idea to fix problems! I’m sure the AMA would love to know that cancer can be cured by simply doing nothing about it!
Woooo! Utopia here we come!
To fight this, your suggestion is…… to do nothing.
Honestly, doing nothing by way of a General Strike would have a much more powerful impact on the political system than watching the poll results roll in from your gerrymandered district and disenfranchised neighborhood.
I wish more people would consider Walks-Outs, Sick-Outs, and Administrative Lock-Outs as tools of political change.
Add full context.
“But Trump Worse!”
I think that’ll work. Any more complex than that and you’ll lose them.
That’s funny… I’ve seen MAGA use the exact same argument.
The point being that trying to pass that specific sandwish as “gourmet” doesn’t make this less of a contest of shit-sandwish vs double-shit-sandwish.
The take of top poster of this thread - that Biden is an “old man with good intentions” - is quite a different and far more tribalist and propagandistic take than your “the one that’s a bit less enthusiastic genocide supporter”.
Your take is perfectly reasonable, whilst the original take is, as the previous poster pointed out, complete total bollocks for anybody but a complete total sociopath (who would be ok with mass murder) or ultra-tribalist numpty (who is ok with whatever their tribe’s leader supports, no matter how inhumane).
He’s a sweet innocent man who has only ever been a ray of shining light for this country, and he told Netanyahu to stop but Trump said to keep going, so now you have to vote to stop the war in Palestine but you won’t because you’re a bot from China.
These two old people should be at home sleeping, not trying to run the country.
Joe “I’m gonna go take a nap” Biden.
Donald “Corrupt liar and professional conman” Trump is better somehow?
You have your priorities straight.
Fun fact: even as one is much worse, they’re BOTH awful.
Even when the alternative is stage four leukemia, it’s not reasonable to demand that people pretend that it’s good to get malaria.
We are forced to choose.
So is it malaria or stage four leukemia?
Easy fucking choice to me.
Still missing the point:
Of course you’ll have to choose malaria Biden over stage four leukemia Trump. That’s obvious. And also besides the point I’m making.
My point is that, no matter how bad the alternative is, malaria fucking SUCKS and nobody should ever be forced to pretend otherwise.
It’s opinion policing, it’s authoritarianism, and it’s standing in the way of progressing to a point where there’s actually a GOOD choice instead of a bad one and a much worse one every Presidential election.
I personally dont attach nearly as much importance to the actual person filling the presidential seat, so much as the organization that backs and supports them. We all know trump literally will say anything to gain republican support and Biden is the spokesman for the democrats to gain support.
The point is that trump and Biden could both pass tonight, and the people who replace them will have the exact same goals and ideas. Its not just about the person who wins president as it is about the group we want to run the country.
So no, its not malaria and stage 4 cancer, its a mosquito bite vs a bee sting, for all the difference it makes between the two. We are voting for republicans or democrats, not Biden or trump.
Do people really think the president sits there dictating what everyone else is doing like some extravagant conductor?
They are fucking salespeople, client relations managers, public relations people. Trump didn’t bring a single original idea to his own campaign and people are frustrated with Biden because he won’t take a principled stance and instead just parrots back how his party feels (see Israel).
Ok.
Is there another criticism now, or is the one that constantly gets repeated going to continue getting repeated?
Are you really trying to act like Biden’s age isn’t a huge issue? Did you not see the same old man that the rest of us saw?
Well, Biden doesnt stand alone, he didnt come up with all these ideas himself, he’s just leading the party. Its not really that important who leads it, the ideas aren’t going to change.
If its more likely their party wins with another candidate then fine but it seems just as risky as not changing to me.
It’s an issue for both candidates, so it’s moot, and therefore not worth wasting time over. Move on.
That makes no sense. Why can’t we have a younger candidate? Then it would be a huge advantage for us.
We can later. But right now, it’s not happening. Primaries are done. We’re stuck with these fucking geezers.
See you think your helping…
Whose helping?
*you’re
I’m criticizing the people who have nothing else to fucking say, those who think they’re helping (or think they have a gotcha) but aren’t.
Actually with how much trump was falling asleep in court. It could also be Donald “I’m gonna go take a nap” Trump.
Its an quote from when he said exactly the above, then abruptly walked off stage mid-presser in S. Korea. Like he was in the middle of a press conference and mic dropped to go microwave some sleepytime tea.
I’ve been chuckling about danger since 2016 when the democratic party pushed through hillary and then lost against a clown. The democratic party does not instill confidence (except in their ability to sabotage themselves).
They would rather hand the country to the insane Nazi clown than do anything that night upset their sponsors.
There are troves of leftist literature that detail how liberals would sooner side with fascism peacefully than risk any kind of violence. They’re being vindicated by current events globally. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds. They will do anything to maintain the order that keeps them as about half of the ruling body of the country.
In this thread: Depression and angry, and misplaced comparisons.
This doesn’t change what we need to do, folks. Get Biden back in and use those four years to stay together and fix this bullshit. That’s the goal. I think we ARE angry enough to finally achieve something like it.
That’s what they said last time. I’ll hold my nose and vote for him but I don’t expect anything to improve and I’m not going to stop bitching about it.
At this point, I’ll settle for “hold things together without sliding into pure fascism”. Staying in a crappy place you are is better than going somewhere worse.
But yes, you should be doing whatever you can to make things where you are better in the meantime.
“hold things together without sliding into pure fascism
Except we’ve been doing that since 2016, for lots of even 2012 after we felt let down by Obama.
But take a second and think. Are we closer to the threat of pure fascism now than in 2016?
It’s just a question of how fast we slide, which long term is unsustainable. We need to at least stop the slide and we just have t been doing that.
I think the “staying in the crappy place” pushes more people to accept fascists because they sing a tune of redemption, while the status quo still chokes you. Unfortunately that’s never the right answer, but people aren’t logical.
It definitely pushes some people to fascists - that’s how Hitler came to power, after all - but not necessarily all. Unfortunately, our very broken electoral system gives fascists a built-in advantage, as the GOP is severely overrepresented in the government.
When asked if he supports some restrictions on abortion, Biden said he “supports Roe v. Wade, which had three trimesters. The first time is between a woman and a doctor. Second time is between a doctor and an extreme situation. A third time is between the doctor, I mean, between the women and the state.”
It’s Joever
…as opposed to Trump ranting about deciding whether or not to abort after the baby is born?
It’s not the best explanation of the Roe v Wade view of things, but it’s far from the worst and a damn sight better than anything any Republican is going to say on the topic.
It also may not “fix this bullshit” other than not having Trump, but that’s still worth it a hundred fold.
This doesn’t change what we need to do
Campaign at the state level to change our voting system so we can have more options in the voting booth?
Think bigger.
Organize rallies and protests. Campaign at every level. Set up grassroots funding even for Mayor positions. A grassroots site that walks people who have the capacity to do, though no idea where to start, could be big on its own. Literally take those four years and apply ALL of ourselves in the best ways we know how.
Is this a monumental undertaking? Fucking of course it is. Though none of us will be alone IF WE COME TOGETHER despite our differences in opinion.
Four years MIGHT be enough time to finally establish a viable third party, but it’s gonna take work.
Four years is not nearly enough to establish a viable third party. The rightwing has been working towards the current situation for decades. It’s nice the left is finally waking up but it’s going to take decades of continuing work to unfuck us.
Agreed, but the “I only vote third party” people never think about elections unless it’s the presidential election (gestures vaguely around), when it’s far too late. This is work that needs to start at a local level to build the party slowly and methodically on a solid foundation and integrate it into the system through numbers and results. Americans just don’t have the attention span.
Agreed, but the “I only vote third party” people never think about elections unless it’s the presidential election (gestures vaguely around), when it’s far too late.
Lmao. What? Federal elections get third parties ballot access. Inside third parties they use ballot access to run as many people as they can in local elections. The reality is, they sort of cut off their federal candidates and focus on local ones, because they can’t afford to exceed in kind donation limits.
I’ve ran for state house as a third party candidate. Try it sometime instead of spouting ignorance.
Lol yeah keep shooting for the moon expecting some third party to come out of nowhere and hold the highest power in the world and practically no other office.
I’ve been saying this for months. Don’t expect the Russian bots to listen at all, and as for the far left, they’re only here to make appearances. After the election- regardless of who wins, they’ll vanish like they do every election.
as for the far left, they’re only here to make appearances. After the election- regardless of who wins, they’ll vanish like they do every election.
We appreciate you, our blue conservative ally
Problem is we all see the writing on the wall. Biden will not finish other 4 year term. So a vote for Biden is a vote for Harris and some will not do that.
Biden fucked us at that debate best thing he can do now is step aside and hopefully the DNC can find a decent replacement that can beat Trump.
My boss Nikki Hailey switch parties but I don’t like her at all.
My boss Nikki Hailey switch parties but I don’t like her at all.
In here posting about an ancient man’s debate performance and then end it with a sentence like this shit. 😝
They’ve had 4 years already and done nothing with it. I don’t know what you think another 4 will accomplish.
They’ve done plenty with it. There have been a large number of positive changes. Lists exist in SO many places, go find them. Challenge yourself.
Just not the deep changes in the system itself many of us know is needed.
You can’t fix Capitalism, you have to get rid of it.
True, but replacing it with fascism is not an improvement.
Never said it was. Capitalism enables the conditions for fascism, the way to avoid and stop fascism is to remove the root cause.
Yeah, we’ll get right on that. /s
Eventually we will, or we will have fascism, yes. That’s how it works.
They’ve done plenty with it.
You’re right, Biden signed an executive order making it illegal for a railway union to actually go on strike. And he kept a bunch of Trump appointees in positions where they can do the most damage. Like that dipshit who runs the postal service now.
Trump claimed the whole county is gone, destroyed. Over. That ‘abortion’ means killing babies who have already been born, are viable, and alive, That immigration of murder-rape insane asylum Mexicans is coming to the US to kill and rape pregnant white women, and steal all the jobs from… checks notes Hispanics, and that the whole world is laughing at Biden and has no respect for the US, that Putin ‘‘took land’’ under all previous president’s but not him, that it took serious leadership skill for him to fire all the people he fired while president, that he didn’t appoint anyone he fired, he ‘inherited’ them, That the US isn’t pro Isreal enough and Biden is so against Isreal he is ‘‘a Palestinian’’ and ‘‘not even a good one’’ that we should have boots on the ground in Gaza, that we should leave NATO (a thing the US created to have military bases all across the EU and more) That Biden botched the withdrawal from Afghanistan, with the tready, or as every credible foreign policy figure has called it, a surrender to the Taliban that Trump negotiated and signed (it was bueatiful it was tremendous) That he didn’t allow mandates during Covid, that he didn’t support the vaccine, that he took credit for having made, that cured covid, the covid that’s not as big a deal as some say, that more people died of covid under Biden, and that the economic upswing after covid was only his economy from before covid coming back, so Biden can’t take credit for how great his economy is since it came back, and the economy is over, it’s destroyed, there is no economy, we’re all dead, nothing can be done, the US is over, it’s all over, BLM burned down the whole country, under Biden, not under Trump he would have fixed that if he was in office when BLM happened he is so good, only he can save us all, he doesn’t even want to, he just has to because Biden is so bad, everything is bad, are all going to die, it’s all over, we’re already dead, this is hell, we’re all dead and in hell, Biden is the devil, he is making us get convicted of felonies, over and over, like 30 felonies, why won’t he let us die, it’s not fair, we’re all dead, please stop voting for me, I just want to die.
My point is, if you have to select one of these men soon to be in their 80s who are going to stumble around in a open bathrobe in the oval office, maybe the one that has a fixed view on reality is better than in rambling jackass who can’t even connect two dots in his own rhetoric.
Good points, but please use paragraphs
No shit. I couldn’t finish reading the post.
On the contrary. I’m a stickler for clean formatting, but I really think the wall of text emphasized his point more than anything.
People seem to think I’m advocating voting for Trump. I’m not. You have to vote for Biden, because the alternative is unconscionable. But people shouldn’t pretend the Democrats are a party of political accomplishment. You’re not voting for the positive changes the party can do. You’re voting for the promise that they won’t go out of their way to make things worse. That’s it.
The whole thing was the strongest argument against American exceptionalism I’ve ever witnessed.
I mean, exceptionally bad is still a kind of exceptionalism.
It’s not Joe. It’s the fact that he’s old, and Trump is old, stupid and a criminal felon. And we have no other choice? Out of the several hundreds of millions of Americans we get these two and that’s it? How come no one else wants the job?
I will choose Biden 1000000000 times over Trumpfus. With Biden, China is what it is, an economical frienemy. With Trump they are our best friends and so on and so forth if they just give Trump tickets to the Padres game or something. No question, Biden. But if a piece of cheese 🧀🍕 was running and it could talk, I would vote cheese all the way!
Troofs. Yea I’ll hafta vote Democrat cause holy fuck look at what republican means right now(also for as long as I was voting age). And while I want to just throw my vote away and vote third party because fuck both parties… I do live in somewhat important not necessarily decided state. (Iirc pa went Trump in 2016 but Biden in 2020).
I forget the term for it, but fuck that thing that makes political bribes legal in the US. Fuck gerrymandering. And most of all fuck this two party system where both parties are owned, fucking outright, by companies and oligarchs and foreign influences.
Like if you don’t already knew, both of them are not fit to be the president of United States of America.
I don’t know any Democrat that wants Joe. I’ve seen more support for Hilary Clinton at this point and no one likes here either.
This is just a pro-Russia talking point.
Actually, no matter who wins, America will remain a glorious perfect city on a hill that is the envy of the world forever.
You forgot the /s
Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich. Again. USA needs to somehow break free from the 2-party nonsense.
He had nothing to gain from agreeing to this debate.
They want fence sitters in Pennsylvania who are college educated to see what a blabbering idiot Trump is.
There’s almost no fence sitters. This isn’t your father’s Republican party. It’s a literal christofascist cult where you’re either part of the group or hated, and one of the main prerequisites of even CONSIDERING joining is an intense irrational hatred for anyone with a (D) behind their name, whether progressives like Bernie and AOC, or conservatives like Henry Cuellar and Biden.
The Biden campaign is wasting its time and energy trying to appeal to people who would rather die than ever vote for a Democrat while alienating most of the Democratic base and extinguishing much of the enthusiasm of the ones who still aren’t completely turned off.
Unless they change course dramatically, voter participation will be abysmally low and the orange fascist man-child is going to win and, with the help of Project 2025, is going to dismantle everything resembling democracy, regulations, and protections for any abused minority group.
And the “blue no matter who” apparatchiks are going to victim blame the tens of millions of alienated potential voters rather than blaming the corruption, incompetence, and stubborn refusal to listen to them that alienated them.
After all, they’d rather die than hold the leaders of their own party accountable for their mistakes and shortcomings, no matter how much ignoring it helps the fascist GOP.
Trying to watch that mess felt like listening to my schizophrenic relative explain her dream: Not fucking worth getting invested. Still voting against Trump but jeeze, this sure isn’t helping the case for our electoral system. Giant douche or Turd sandwich would literally be more compelling.
They should have just given him those drugs. You can’t appease Nazis so it’s idiotic to try.
The scary part is they did.
Project 2025 here we go
900+ pages of me getting my rights fucked straight into the ocean.
Can we just like, set everything on fire?
Can we just like, try an alternative electoral system so more then two political parties can be viable?
We certainly can, and should- but it takes a lot more than people being politically active only every four years.
Changing the electoral system means passing laws.
The people who pass laws are elected representatives.
The current electoral system works well for the current elected representatives (kinda by definition, because it’s what got them elected).
So, the laws won’t get changed because the people who have the power to pass the new law aren’t going to pass a law that disadvantages them.
Case in point, the Liberal Party of Canada promised that if elected they’d reform the electoral system and get rid of first past the post. But, of course, FPTP is a massive advantage for the two main parties, the Liberals and the Conservatives. So, when they won the election, they quickly backed out of that promise. The only parties still promising to get rid of FPTP are the smaller parties who would have a big advantage if FPTP went away – but, of course, these small parties can’t win elections because of FPTP, so their promises to get rid of it are empty because they will never be in a position to make that change.
The election is in 6 months… we don’t have time for massive election reform lol all we have time for is hoping Biden can win
Republicans making public plans to install an authoritarian government? Sounds serious!
So when will democrats drop gun control considering this imminent threat?
Work towards peace, prepare for the inevitable.
