Or is it just doomed to the vapidity of sterile commercialization?
It feels like everything is serious these days… and ‘humor’ is only of the commercial variety. Joke communities and circlejerk communities are considered ‘hate groups’ now. Mods will ban you for sarcastic comments on ‘serious’ topics, and even on non serious ones, and everything is politicized either by trolls, bots, or whackjobs.
It’s boring when you can’t joke anymore. I miss my internet communities of 5-10 years ago when you could joke around, and even people of different beliefs and persuasions could laugh at themselves.
Now everything is so deadly serious. It’s a complete bummer. And any sort of ‘edge’ or sarcasm or sardonic remarks are ban-worthy.
I guess it’s just poe’s law run amok? I feel like mods could tell the difference 10 years ago and the non-jokey psychos were just ignored.
I always find it weird when someone says they can’t joke on the internet. I joke on the internet all the time, and I’ve been banned from 0 forums, Discord servers, or other social media groups. 1 subreddit, but that was appealed, and I wasn’t even joking when I got that ban, lol
I’ve never seen the internet as some stuffy place where I can’t joke around, or where I have to watch my tongue, and I’ve been using the internet for over 20 years.
I’m not going to accuse anyone of anything, though I do know that some people and communities have “old boys’ clubs” or whatever they’re called where their sense of humour tends to be saying things that shouldn’t be said in polite company…things like racist or sexist jokes, rape jokes, etc.
The whole world isn’t one big “old boys’ club”, and not everyone wants to see that crap. A big part of comedy is knowing your audience.
TL;DR, The internet is still fun. If it’s not fun for you, then it might be your perspective that needs adjustment.
Yeah. I’ve had exactly 0 issues in the past decade. The only people I tend to get op’s complaints from are usually lamenting that they can’t use the n-word or hate on marginalized groups anymore and hide behind “it’s a joke lmao”. Op was too vague to actually say what exactly they mean by sanitization, but it IS eerily similar.
I have this neighbor. He is like 70+ yo, after a stroke and a heart attack, barely talks and walks…
Somehow, this guy still has some slapping sense of humor. How come he pulls it off and most people I briefly checked online history of can’t and more often than not are the same people talking “everyone is just too serious nowadays”, “no-one can get a good joke anymore, huh?” or “why they banned me? Again!”…
I am not saying this about OP, but I am starting to notice a trend.
Plus, yeah, being able to read the room (this in itself can be 10 times harder online), knowing your range and type of humor you operate with can definitely help. And sometimes… sometimes it just doesn’t land at all — best lesson to improve or learn something. On the other hand, not everything and not every occasion or room has to be a comedic scene.
You are a) a very tame person, and b) quick to establish yourself on the right side of the pitchfork mob.
I’m not going to accuse anyone of anything, though I do know
THIS attitude is what’s killing the internet. Anyone who is punished must have been guilty. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
(is my ban incoming?)
Anyone who is punished must have been guilty
Not what I said nor implied.
I can know that something happens sometimes without accusing someone of doing that thing…lol
There’s a hypothetical phenomenon called the “asshole filter” that some have proposed. Basically, the idea is: hostile, humorless and trolling type people chase away the more pleasant people over time. The end result being, the concentration of assholes is always going up on social media and anonymous online forums, etc.
I don’t think it’s very scientific. How could you accurately measure such a thing. But I have felt like it was happening as various corners of the internet have grown in popularity.
One way I try to deal with it on here is I aggressively block people. Why let my energy get drained when there’s any easy way to never see the jerks again.
I don’t know if this tactic will work long term. There are potentially friendlier instances to migrate to, also. Lemmy is an interesting ongoing experiment.
Hope you hang in. Completely understand if you don’t want to.
the concentration of assholes is always going up
True, but this isn’t a natural phenomenon, it’s a result of engagement-based ranking algorithms. Assholes attract engagement by starting flame wars and the like, so front page algorithms push them to the top.
Before social media, forums were popular and their sorting was simply by most recently updated. I think this is part of what made the internet more fun: instead of websites trying to guess what you would like most, you were given a practically random, diverse view of everything.
I think it may be both. Engagement algorithms are definitely part of the problem. Agree it was far more fun when it was random / organic interactions.
However, I also think it’s kind of like a party that starts out like a book club, it gets more interesting, and then louder and more obnoxious folks hear about this, and they keep showing up.
By the end it’s a completely different vibe, and the original folks are long gone. Have experienced it numerous times over the long years, before the sorting and engagement algorithms joined the fray.
I know this comes off as kind of hipsterish. But, most obnoxious people don’t realize they are obnoxious. And confronting them seldom does anything but escalate the situation. So leaving is the mature choice. Therefore… mature folks leave, and the forum’s relative aggregate immaturity goes up.
One way to fight it is with very strict moderation, and I have seen that work. But it’s labor-intensive and requires moderators who are highly dedicated and fair, and don’t “power trip”. I’m not a huge fan of that approach overall. But in the right context (like academic discussions) it can be pretty good.
I think that the ranking algo is a catalyst, but the underlying phenomenon is natural, due to two counterpoints:
- 4chan - same algo as old forums, and notoriously full of arseholes
- Jantelagen, tall poppy syndrome, crab mindset - the idea of people being arseholes to the ones who behave differently pops up across multiple offline cultures
I think that this is important because, if the Arsehole Social Shift (A.S.S.)* is a natural phenomenon, just avoiding a ranking algo isn’t enough; you need active measures to counter it.
It might also have to do with community size, given that everyone has some triggers that makes them behave like arseholes, and they’re more likely to be triggered in larger communities.
*sorry for the silly coinage. I couldn’t help it.
I’ve been thinking about social mechanics in online environments for a few years, and this arsehole filter definitively sounds true for me. I think that it has a twofold mechanism:
- it’s easier to endure arseholes if you’re one
- your behaviour sets up the example for newbies
So arseholes have a higher re-incidence and proliferation than nice people.
I also think that this applies to assumptive/dumb/disingenuous vs. smart, and entitled/whiny vs. contributive people. If that’s correct then the phenomenon is likely wider, and we could actually measure it for something else. It wouldn’t prove that the arsehole filter is true, but it would strengthen the hypothesis.
Yup. There were some Reddit communities I left because of the population of assholes or “griefers”. There seemed to be a disproportionate amount in certain gaming communities that lead me to believe age is a factor.
Thankfully, there were usually enough people leaving to create an alternate subreddit! Lol
Some of the alternate subs were really good. And some became worse than the thing they left behind. Ye olde circle of reddit.
If the internet isn’t fun for you, find a community on the internet that you actually enjoy being in. Easier said than done, I know, but the internet is a big place.
Smaller every day though, that’s the problem
Blame the algorithms.
They intentionally defy normal human social behavior to pit you against people you’re more likely to disagree with in a major irreconcilable way, prompting people to polarize as potential middle grounders are pushed in one direction or the other through constantly being fed the absolute most aggressive examples of “the other side” that are currently active.
It’s like video game matchmaking but the slurs actually rank you up.
In normal human interaction you’d be able to just write the crazies off and stop talking to them, social media is your boundary hating aunt who refuses to accept you have a right to go NC over irreconcilable differences and keeps trying to force reconciliation at every family event despite neither of you having any want for communicating with the other, then acts shocked and horrified when actually succeeding in forcing a conversation just leads to another blow up because some people are just better off not speaking.
I’ve been part of quite a lot of communities ranging from old electronics to silly song contests to cartoons with sentient objects (you can tell by my profile picture) to vidya games. Almost all of them have been incredibly fun at first, but eventually turned into shadows of their former selves. It’s honestly really depressing.
That and we also change. What we find fun now won’t necessarily be fun in a year, even if everything stays the same.
That too.
there’s the indieweb movement, smaller sites trying to have fun, like neocities
Am seriously considering founding a not-for-profit to provide an ad free / spam free / bot free basic community. Would cost a dollar or two a month. Chief differences to the lemmy would be one account per person via proof of identity signup (I think this would improve behaviour and discourage spam), a single authority to tackle voting abuse and other things useful to be not federated.
Aside from that revenue would cover technical staff costs + hosting and the rest could go to some good cause. There’s be no ads. No data selling. Not conduct of interest over his that platform evolved. Would be open source. Adults only.
Id keep it as basic as possible to try and capture the spirit of 90s fora. Am not even sure I’d allow inline images or vid.
Thoughts?
Something Awful charged :10bux: for membership and was a pillar of good moderation. It works.
They were amazing pioneers of shitposting and circlejerking but some people considered them something of a hate group for their callouts of specific subcultures. I’m suggesting that aspect of things that OP is describing isn’t exactly new.
But yeah, agreed, the swift, stark ban policy was very effective in creating a “civil” society there - idiots showed up to fuck around, bam hope they’ve got 10 more bucks if they want to try again under a different account.
God I’d kill for a place with no trolls, politics, shit posts, where your allowed to disagree and have spirited discussions on topics but mods would step in before it becomes an argument.
I feel like everywhere you go online nowadays there’s a `well ackwchullly’ type in the corner. I’d love a place people can get together share ideas and joke around.
Long story short, if you build it they will come.
Maybe the things you think are jokes are offensive to other people? Watch a movie from 20, 30, 40 years ago and see how those jokes held up - lots of racist, homophobic, sexist stuff. I’m not saying that’s what you’re looking for, but just that some jokes don’t age well. When you know better, do better.
I do know better. I know about diversity and acceptance, and taking it easy, and living and letting live, and to each his own, and being a traveler, and having an open mind, and ribbing, and separating the important stuff from the unimportant stuff.
I know things that are so much better than getting offended over more and more things each year. I know better, so I do better.
I don’t get offended over jokes because I have contempt for that behavior.
If you did, you’d know it isn’t about “being offended by more every year” - its recognizing that something is offensive to others and adjusting because some of us have better shit to do than being rude cause its “fun.”
If you can’t be fun without low hanging fruit gay jokes, you’re probably not actually that fun. 🤷
No. I value fun. I myself choose often not to be offended when I realize others aren’t trying to offend me. I almost never get offended. I know it’s possible to live this way. I know that others’ jokes aren’t a threat to me.
You don’t seem to realize that a thing being offensive isn’t an objective fact. Offensiveness is in the eye of the offended. That gives power to the offended, to solve their own problem.
Give it time
The old school internet was fun because we were in charge. No one would put Peanut Butter Jelly Time or Look at My Horse on TV and let it play in its entirety. No one would print rotten.com on paper and sell it at the corner. For the first time ever in a lot of people’s experience, you could publish and say whatever you wanted. Then the reality of hosting costs set in, and the government learned that the internet existed and decided what it needed was outlawed encryption, and long story short there was a long self selection process where only the assholes wound up in charge again.
But now it’s coming back. I think everyone’s a little bit shell shocked back to the Facebook way (e.g. screaming about the mods and how unfair, instead of starting their own instances / communities, e.g. bickering about what “the rules” need to be and when to put content warnings and whatnot). I think it’ll equalize as the realpolitik of people generally running their own servers replaces the realpolitik of it being just a bunch of assholes running the servers and us being helpless and no escape from them.
I don’t know exactly what culture it will equalize to, but I definitely feel like it will be a big step back towards the old internet. We just haven’t gotten there yet.
It should theoretically be possible to set up an old school forum, train some ai bots on old school forum user data to get them to talk like morons and then boom, an old school forum full of computer generated shitposting. This way you could have a computer generated vintage internet experience from the comfort of your own home.
This reminds me of the old gpt2 and 3 subreddits, before this “AI” boom, and no one had ever heard of GPT. Every subreddit was condensed to a single user, with the GPT trained on only that sub. So you’d have things like TIL-GPT makes a post in the GPT3 subreddit: “TIL you can…” and a full comment section from from GPT users like Movies-GPT, WorldNews-GPT, PCMasterRace-GPT, etc.
Reading through them had the chance to be wild. When the posts would make just barely enough sense, but random enough to be unhinged.
I don’t know how much was automated, or if people would toggle runs of X amount of new posts, or what. But eventually people made subreddits for posting screenshots of the best GPT’s talking to each other.
You could always see patterns and then go to the real sub, and see how accurate they were. GPTs from gaming subreddits unironically posting circlejerks, from conservative subs being lowkey racist, etc.
Some pockets here and there are still fun. It’s just hard to find them.
Its the polarisation of the masses to the point they no longer wish to interact in a civil manner when disagreeing. I remember the days when u could talk to people who are fundamentally opposed to ur ideology and have a civil discussion. Now everyone jumps at the oppertunity to label everything as something awful without a single attempt to engage in good faith.
Love this post
Volume. A long time ago, ten replies was huge, not a thousand.
Join the communities, follow the people, and start conversations where the world is still small, you’ll find what you are looking for.
The filter is your friend, social sites are not the only sites (federated ones included), and there are many destinations to participate as long as you dont hunt for exposure to the masses.
Edit: Friendly reminder that IRC, web comics, and niche forums still exist.
You’re on a network where the majority has strict limits on the topics you’re allowed to poke fun at. Commercialization may have started the trend, but an eternal September of humorless cunts are keeping it going far and wide.
