• random9@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    I agree that github is for developers or people who at the very least don’t mind learning a bit of development and getting their hands dirty. The poster demanding an exe is quite entitled - and also from what I understand the repo he is referring to is a python repo, so there normally wouldn’t be an exe, it’d just be run via a python command.

    There’s a bigger problem here, which is that technical skill in newer generations is also decreasing - as someone on reddit had once said “I’m a millennial and I’m doing tech support for my parents as well as my children”. A generation raised on tablets and phones have gotten the false impression of being tech savy, when their actual technical skill is using end products.

    Expecting every github repo to provide you with something you just click-and-run is overlooking the complexities and reality of how code is. By it self that isn’t a problem, but the entitlement it takes to publicly and arrogantly post that on a public forum is astounding and counter-productive to people who work on those small repos.

    • body_by_make@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      6 months ago

      Nobody has any idea how old this poster is, it could be an old ass boomer as easily as it could be a zoomer and we’re just going on making statements about the technical abilities of new generations without any actual evidence other than a single person that can’t do something for themselves? There are many, many people from my graduating class who would be as helpless as this person and I’m fucking 30.

      • shinratdr@lemmy.ca
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        6 months ago

        The same thing happened in the previous generation too. Some boomer would start raging about how these millennials don’t know how to fix cars or install toilets or whatever anymore based on one cherry picked example and the other 95% of boomers that have been paying a mechanic or a plumber this whole time and don’t know how to do shit would just nod along.

        • OpenTTD@lemmy.zip
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          6 months ago

          Yes, but knowing how to install a toilet the difficult way (instead of hiring a plumber) was replaced by knowing how to install a program the difficult way (via a command line instead of an installer).

          Now, Zoomers aren’t stupid or tech illiterate, I have a Zoomer friend and she’s more tech literate than I am. The issue is that installing a program the hard way has been replaced with minimizing your carbon and digital footprints. That’s not the skill of a super predator, its the skill of prey. We’ve been reduced to prey for the shareholders of corporations.

    • Facebones@reddthat.com
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      6 months ago

      There are people whose entire understanding and knowledge of the internet exists entirely inside the Facebook app

      Buy phone Install Facebook The end.

  • Dasnap@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Creates something free to use and ask for nothing in return

    People complain because they have to chmod +x a Shell file

    A tale as old as the internet.

  • whotookkarl@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    There’s a little trick my parents passed down to me whenever I asked them what a word meant or how to do something when I was a kid, “look it up yourself”. Look up the word in the dictionary, learn how to learn how to do things, and then when you get stuck ask for help graciously. Self reliance isn’t something that just happens, it takes effort and often failure.

    • Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      6 months ago

      It’s a great learning technique. My family and girlfriend always say I’m so smart cause I know a lot. I don’t think I’m that smart I just always take that extra step to Google something if I have any questions. Doesn’t matter how small or unimportant it may seem, you never know what sort of rabbit hole you’ll fall down and how much you’ll learn because of it.

  • FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    The more I see of Gen Z the more I feel secure in my IT job. There’s no new generation of home grown tech nerds coming to push us out. Half of these guys think hacking is hitting view-source on a webpage or (hushed whispers) finding the developer tools menu…

    • NickwithaC@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Same with millennials, gen x, boomers… The prospect that a generation who grew up using technology would have an inherent understanding of how it works has proven empty.

      • FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Of all of them my experience is that younger gen x / older millennial are the most hands-on technically literate. Grew up in 80s 90s as home computers became main stream but required a good deal of tinkering. They currently form the body of 40-50 year old electrical engineers, senior devs and consultants. Not really in game development (where crazy hours are a young man’s game), rather IT and business as a whole.

  • Ironfacebuster@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Steps to building a cool program (the really cool way)

    1. Clone the GitHub repository
    2. Open command prompt
    3. Run the build command
    4. It fails because the repository owner uses a different c++ compiler and it only works with that one
    5. It fails again, realize you installed visual studio wrong somehow so spend an hour trying to get the visual studio installer to find and uninstall it before deleting the installation directory entirely and installing the required version again
    6. It still fails, the project looks for version “” of protobuf but you have “3.1.10.1” so you reconfigure it to look for a real version of protobuf
    7. It fails again, some tool that isn’t in the readme is required to build it
    8. It fails again, it’s not actually compatible with windows yet
    9. Give up and wait for pre built binaries

    Edit: did the other guy that responded block me? I got a notification about it but can’t load the comment

    • Killing_Spark@feddit.de
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      6 months ago

      Hey welcome to our group session. Just know that we all have been hurt by C++ build systems and this is a safe space

    • limelight79@lemm.ee
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      6 months ago

      I used to run Slackware and have built many, many packages this way.

      These days…gimme a .deb, please. It’s not that I can’t do it…it’s that I want to do other things.

    • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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      6 months ago

      If you want Blender with CUDA support from source… Man, this is the way. Thank God for their benevolence in releasing build binaries.

      I sure learned a ton while painfully trying to figure it all out though! Lol

  • FrostKing@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    People misunderstand the target audience of GitHub—which is specifically not the general public, but yes, developers. If you don’t want to be treated as a developer, don’t use a platform designed for developers. And I’m saying this as someone who’s having a horrible time learning hot git and GitHub works. (Not because it’s bad, I’m just a slow learner lol)

    • aidan@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Git design is a little bit bad, mostly just in the UI that is unintuitive and sometimes needlessly complex. Its why things like JJ and Mercurial are still being made.

        • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
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          6 months ago

          i don’t get this, just go to the releases page? like 2-3 clicks and you have a series of links to “theprogram.exe” “theprogram.sh” “theprogram.zip”

          or are you just talking about shit like libraries? because yeah that’s… not how you install libraries…

    • ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca
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      6 months ago

      It could be used for cyberstalking, but it’s not expressly built for that use case I think. All it does is spit out sites that have a matching user name on file. It’s actually quite useful for periodic social media / account cleanup to check for account you created for one reason or another and no longer need / have grown dormant.

      In that sense it’s similar to something like Mine.

    • DODOKING38@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      I mean I used it to see what shit I signed up with, especially if you’ve had your email for a few years. I used the website not the app

  • THE MASTERMIND@feddit.ch
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    6 months ago

    If they just asked kindly those “stupid smelly nerds” would’ve gladly helped bit no you have to be an idiot and an entitled little shit.

      • TORFdot0@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Considering the nature of the tool, if you can’t understand how to use the tool. You should be banned. Its not something for laypersons.

      • daltotron@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        This person has interacted with stupid smelly nerds, confirmed. It’s a feedback loop, in any case. The elitism is going to naturally spin out from the power imbalance created by the stupid smelly nerds also being the ones that have access to all the knowledge. For all the commitment to open source principles and ideas, lots of people just kind of don’t understand that one of the most critical aspects of open source is making your shit accessible.

  • AnalogyAddict@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Devs tend to forget that they get paid so much because they know things most don’t. If everyone was comfortable with things that seem simple to them like running a git install, devs wouldn’t be as sought after.

  • mlg@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    I think this is satire because the app in question is a social media finder and the only non computer users who would want to use it probably uses apple or won’t know what an exe even is.

    Also

    # clone the repo $ git clone https://github.com/sherlock-project/sherlock.git

    # change the working directory to sherlock $ cd sherlock

    # install the requirements $ python3 -m pip install -r requirements.txt

    3 commands lmao

    • 520@kbin.social
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      6 months ago

      You would be surprised. There are a lot of wannabe hackers out there and many have the entitled attitude shown in OP’s posts.

      Many of them are also completely alien to the command line as well. What are clear instructions to you and me may as well be Hylian to such skiddies.

      I used to have a lot of old cybersec material from late 90s/early 2000s. A lot has changed since then but skiddies? They haven’t changed a bit.

      • mlg@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        I miss the days when the Kali community used to dunk on people asking basic linux questions because they had no idea what Debian is lol.

        I remember some nicer dude in a forum telling newbies to use Linux permanently for at least a month before even trying to do anything with Kali.

        Everyone else was bringing a metric load of roasts and Torvalds level of insults lmao.

      • _number8_@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        fellas is it entitled to want to install a program without learning the intricacies of the command line

        • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Not in the linux world they aren’t, the entire community is built on entitlement and elitism.

          If you can’t ‘be on their level’, they don’t want to even know you exist.

          I have been working in IT 3 decades and I’ve NEVER had a more hostile forum thread than just trying to get help in a linux forum for gpu drivers.

          • 4am@lemm.ee
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            6 months ago

            15 day old account shitposting about Linux entitlement called “mods_are_assholes”

            We got a ban-evading wannabe skiddie, boys.

  • gmtom@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Nah I kinda agree, just give me a “download” button somewhere. I don’t care about your build file, deprecated classes, list of supporters or whatever the fuck else you keep on there.

    I just want to download the software and use it.

    • random9@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      I would suggest that github is the wrong place to go look for that. Github is for developers, primarily a place to share source code, for people who DO care about build files, deprecated classes, contributors, and git history - so they can make the software that runs large parts of the modern world more efficient and flexible.

      Whether there’s an executable provided is completely optional and up to each author. Further, considering in this specific example it was python code, it’s far more flexible for the author to provide python run instructions (which the author HAD provided by the way) than it is to give you a .exe which would take extra, unnecessary effort, and overlooks that the tool he was writing could also be used on linux and macos based machines (because python command exist on those)

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Compared to giving your dumb ass the source? A lot. A lot of effort. Shut up and learn how to run two simple commands.

          • gmtom@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            Yeah fuck people who want a streamlined and convenient user experience. They must be dumb.

            • cm0002@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              If you want a streamlined and convenient user experience, then go fuck off and find commercial software with paid support where a good user experience is expected

              Someone made a tool, thought it was cool and wanted to share what they had for free, they owe you nothing especially a “streamlined and convenient user experience”

    • iegod@lemm.ee
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      6 months ago

      Yeah and I just want to be a millionaire. Son, it ain’t happening just because you want it.

      • gmtom@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Wanting the most used version control platform in the world, that is owned by the biggest software developer in the world to have slightly better UX, is not the same as wanting g to be a millionaire.

        • iegod@lemm.ee
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          6 months ago

          This isn’t a UX problem. If a project’s contributors don’t want to put out an easy install, tough shit.

    • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      The worst is when there is an error in the install commands that you have to debug and correct yourself. When they didn’t even bother to test their install commands it gives me pause about even installing the thing. But I’ve definitely had the experience before and then had the actual software itself work fine

  • cum@lemmy.cafe
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    6 months ago

    They’re not a script kiddie for just wanting a binary. Wtf is this gatekeeping?

    • FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      The accusations comes from them wanting to use a small tool for specific nefarious purpose (tracking people across social media). That’s what “script kiddie” generally means: younger people lacking technical expertise seeking to use the “hacking” tools that others have made.

    • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
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      6 months ago

      My biggest disagreement towards the comments that I have read is, it is a low bar for script kiddies. It is so low that I don’t think the script kiddy that fails this bar is not even a script kiddy.

  • daltotron@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    You know so for this specific instance I kind of find it to be, dumb, right, really stupid, but obviously this guy is trolling, and I think in this thread I’ve even seen an .exe that someone compiled get posted, so I guess, good things come to those who shitpost and bitch, or whatever.

    Also glad this post is (hopefully) dead, so I can write my reflections that nobody else is gonna realistically read.

    More broadly, though, I’ve seen a lot of technically minded linux using system admin types, nerds, basically, right, that just kind of shit relentlessly on anyone who doesn’t know as much as them. Which sucks, for sure, it’s really annoying. It gives me the same vibe as when people talk about how everyone who moves to their country should speak the language, and understand every facet of the culture and every custom, because they’re a “guest”. I mean, yeah, sure, that’s partially true I suppose, and certainly it would help if that were the case, to smooth the transition, right, but it’s also really stupid to expect everyone to acclimate immediately. There are external factors that drive someone to settle in a country, right, could be asylum, could be, socioeconomic asylum. Those are your two options, basically. It’s not really like these people don’t give anything back, either, since they provide high amounts of economic value, they import their culture which can be beneficial, shit like that. It would just straight up make more sense to accommodate them more, to be nicer to them, because it would make it easier for them to acclimate. You will statistically have better outcomes if you choose that path, compared to just kind of, holding your nose up at them, and demanding everything from them and giving nothing in return.

    Not the best metaphor, I’ll admit, comparing a country to the collection of people who might be thought of as “tech literate”, right, obviously it’s apples to oranges. Nonetheless, I’ve seen a very kind of, elitist attitude, directed towards new people, from a group of people that should welcome anyone who seeks to understand their technology better, anyone who seeks more tech literacy. I dunno, I just feel like I’ve seen enough “well justified” stack overflow asshole responses that are like “uhhh I GUESS I’ll tell you about this but you should’ve googled it” when google was what brought up the thread. Maybe that’s more on google, though, I dunno. It gives me redditor vibes, like, NTA reddit vibes, where people kind of take any morally righteous position they can, in order to justify them acting like a twatsack.

    It’s also, practically, a strange mentality to take, because none of this is really going to prevent or discourage people from making stupid comments, right. Gatekeeping is the fucking stupidest idea I’ve ever really heard from the internet, because it just doesn’t work. It just creates people who want to spit back at you, and that’s obviously going to work itself into a kind of positive feedback loop where you’re going to get flooded with more shit in return. It is energy that would be better spent making more accessible software, if such a thing is possible in these circumstances.

    I dunno, at large, it is kind of these mentalities that make me think, it’s not really any wonder why FOSS software, despite being more naturally suited to computer architecture, compared to other shit, isn’t really as used as it should be. It’s mostly just a practical concern, for people. If people have to put in 30 minutes to learn something, then that’s half an hour, and if they’re getting paid federal minimum wage in the states, you could charge them like three bucks and it would probably be worth their time. It’s against the ideal, right, to charge for it, obviously it’s not really going to be a guaranteed ROI, also you’re maybe going to see a smaller userbase, because lots of people would rather pay free than cheap by a staggering proportion, and also you really can’t charge for it, and still have your software remain open source, lest someone else just copies it and spreads it.

    So that all sucks, in practical terms, but sort of my broader point is that the ideological position of FOSS basically can’t compete with your stupid free market charge for money for software kind of shit. We get windows, we get mac, because the software, and the philosophies that built them, were more naturally suited to the socioeconomic environment they all propagated in. They are “more practical”, both in terms of your end user’s uses, but also in terms of how they spread. It’s cynical. It is our old friend of naive techno-optimism, rearing it’s ugly head once again. It also makes me think, you know, that what entails FOSS, are philosophical positions that are naturally kind of more suited to a smaller developer, that can’t build in anti-crack measures, or realistically charge anonymous internet denizens for copyright infringement, and thus, can’t really charge money for software, especially from what’s already going to be an extremely limited userbase. It’s also to their advantage to maybe try to seek help from their limited install base and bolster their numbers that way. I dunno. It strikes me the same way as non-cyberspace attempts at anarchism, right, where it just doesn’t, as quickly, as cynically, secure the means of resistance, and ends up constantly getting crushed by larger predators of ideology.

    I dunno man, I just wish people would stop being mean to each other on the internet. Causes me too much psychic damage.

    • michaelmrose@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Gatekeeping actually does work. You train people how to treat you. If you accept people behaving ignorantly, wasting other people’s time, taking zero effort to help themselves, being rude then they will continually do so. For instance see the folks who think the open source community is a free call center full of support agents instead of other users. If they get a negative response to being an asshole they on average don’t stick around or they change their tack. If supported and babied they will continue their behavior. The general public is on average not entirely irrational. Most wont keep touching the stove. More generally open source communities are rarely getting per user revenue. More realistically every user who doesn’t know anything and needs their hand held because they aren’t actually interested in learning anything is an unrecoverable cost which could sap the energy of the community and destroy it.

      Consumers are used to a customer/company relationship

    • oldfart@lemm.ee
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      6 months ago

      Great, so not going an extra mile in your hobby projects is gatekeeping now

    • Topipolous@lemmy.ml
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      6 months ago

      Great write up, really thanks for sharing your thoughts, couldn’t agree more to this!