The only few reason I know so far is software availability, like adobe software, and Microsoft suite. Is there more of major reasons that I missed?
Some people like to work on their pc, and not work on their pc.
Don’t get me wrong I love Linux, but outside of the Lemmy echo chamber is isn’t very accessible for the average user
There are two parts of my story.
For those with limited time, I gave up Linux once because it was so “strange” from Windows I felt uneasy to use one, and other time because I simply had no use case for it. For those with time, kindly read on.
I had always been an MS-DOS/Windows user who tried Linux and failed several times because I didn’t “get” it, until sometimes between 2006 and 2007 when Mac started its transition into Intel CPU. It was interesting enough (as it was the beginning point for Mac to become mainstream in my country). I decided that my first laptop was going to be a Mac (my house used to see that building own PC was the way to go). It was the first lightbulb moment when I tinkered with a few options in the terminal. This helped me in the future when I tried Linux again. Count it as a transferable skill of sort.
Then around as late as 2021 (because of various life circumstances), I decided to become a cyber security professional—a long time passion of mine. In order for the journey to be pleasant, Linux must be learnt. I enrolled in a course from one authoritative source for SysAdmin, and that was the first time I got to study the innards of the system. After that, along with myself landing a cyber security job, I became more fluent with Linux. Today, I work closely with clients who use Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS, RHEL, and sometimes Solaris, so there is no dull moment (except for troubleshooting Windows from time to time). Linux becomes part of my professional life, as the main use case.
Linux learning curve does feel steep, but choosing a right distro for others help a lot. I never have my peers giving up on Zorin so far, for instance.
Everything I know about Linux I learned troubleshooting a problem. And I still feel like I don’t know shit about the OS. After so long with Windows, Linux feels like living in a country where you don’t speak the language; everything is harder than it needs to be.
If the day comes where games are as easy on Linux as they are on Windows, I’ll give desktop Linux another shot.
This said, I’ve self-hosted on a Debian box for years.
I recently switched for the first time, and have been using EndeavorOS with KDE on a couple year old laptop, and my experience has been the complete opposite. It’s fantastic. I feel like this is what using a PC is supposed to be like. Before Microsoft fucked it all up.
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Rustdesk is better than this proprietary spyware teamviewer
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People use Mac and Windows because everything just works and it comes pre-loaded on the system. That can be the case with some Linux distros, but more often than not you’ll spend forever troubleshooting because some random bit of hardware on your system is not supported immediately out of the box.
I put Linux Mint on my mom’s laptop several years back in an attempt to breathe some new life back into that piece of crap. It’s still a piece of shit, but I thankfully haven’t had to tinker with it and nothing has broken for her.
The other day I tried installing Pop OS on my laptop after having been away from linux for several years. I was infuriated at how long it took me to fiddle with it and get certain components of my system working. Even then, it randomly boots into a black screen occasionally until I restart it a few times. No idea why.
As an example, when I paired my bluetooth mouse, it had missing functionality for the extra buttons. I tried installing some program that you have to manually configure from the terminal and it just threw errors and broke functionality of the scroll wheel. Found a program with a GUI interface…it had both a flatpack and a .deb available. Tried the .deb and it threw an error and never worked. Tried the flatpack version…still didn’t work but this time it no longer told me what the error was (and neither did reinstalling the .deb version)…gave it once and never again so I hope you memorized it. Through some googling I found out that both installations packages were missing some stupid vital and necessary permissions file for some reason. I have absolutely no idea why they were missing the file. It reminded me of the old days when windows was missing some obscure .dll file and I had to download it online. Had to do some more googling to actually figure out what the file was supposed to contain and ended up creating it myself. Finally I got all of the mouse buttons working after all this headache.
If everything works out of the box, you’re golden. If you have to configure shit or things break randomly (like the intermittent black screen issue), things can get frustrating real quickly.
To top it all off, I had hoped Pop OS would make my laptop run snappier, but it even feels a bit more sluggish than Windows 10. I’m still trying to give it a chance though because I missed a bit of tinkering now and then and my laptop is starting to show it’s age a bit. And the new look of GNOME was interesting (well “new” to me…I used Ubuntu back before they updated GNOME to have this dock thingy).
Edit: For anyone who wishes to comment on the black screen issue…no, I do not have a NVIDIA graphics card.
Linux works well if you need something to function as a tool, be it a NAS, network appliance, server, etc. You can setup it up with the small subset of things you need it to do and trust it’ll just run without further interference.
When it comes to a consumer device, it fails the “just works” criteria much harder the OSX or Windows. Software tends to be maintained by an army of unpaid volunteers passionate about their specific use case with a lot of infighting around how things get done. Such functionality is often developed by people with such a warped idea of usability that they consider VIM to be the ideal, modern, text editor. This is a piece of software that started life in the mainframe days, where input lag was measured in seconds rather the milliseconds, in order to minimize number of keystrokes, no matter how convoluted. This leads to multitudes of forks of functionality with subtly differing functionality often with terrible UI and UX catered to the developer’s specific workflow.
Whenever a lay persons asks how to get started with Linux, they get sent down a rabbit hole of dozens of distros, majority of which are just some variant of Ubuntu, with no clear indication of what’s different as they all just describe themselves as the ultimate beginner distro. With the paralysis of choice, they can pick one at random and hope it’ll work with their hardware without issue, spend hours figuring out the nitty-gritty differences and compatibility issues, or just give up and keep using what they already know.
I really only want Linux for software dev work(docker mostly). Windows has wsl which has worked beautifully for me besides memory leaks a couple times a year. The issues I face with wal pale in comparison to my experience dealing with Nvidia drivers and gaming on Linux.
The best way I’ve seen it put is as such “why would I bother with a list of workarounds and janky, barely supported tools, just to get on par with out of the box windows”. Because like it or not, windows is a piss easy OS to get running on, and Microsoft puts a huge amount of work into making compatability a non-issue. If it was made for windows, it probably still works so long as your hardware hasn’t broken it, regardless of how old. Linux just can’t match the sheer amount of stuff that works on windows. And Linux subsystem means you don’t even need a dedicated Linux boot for things.
So all in all, Linux just doesn’t stack up that well as a daily driver. Sure, I have various systems that run it, and they work great, but that’s because I don’t ever use them beyond narrow purposes.
Honestly, my experience was the opposite. When I had issues with windows, which I had a lot. Reinstalling was often the last and only solution. On Linux, when I had an issue, it was a little learning experience and running 1 command. I guess reinstalling is easier… So maybe not the opposite.
Historically, it’s been because I didn’t just “use it”. Instead I tinkered with it, and then broke it beyond my ability to repair.
20ish years ago I installed Ubuntu on a laptop with the intention to get off Windows. I then spent 4 to 6 hours a day for the next two weeks just trying to get the WiFi to function. None of the fixes I could Google up worked, and that was frustrating. It was the people in the Linux forums that finally made me quit trying, though. The amount of gatekeeping was kind of shocking. Like, how dare I bother such mighty computer men with my plebian questions. I should feel honored that anyone condescended to respond at all, and I should gratefully accept their link to a fix I’ve already tried and fuck off.
I bought a new PC last year and I hate Windows 11 so much that it’s got me eyeing Linux again. But the thought of having to repeat that whole ordeal again makes me feel sick to my butthole.
what distro was it back then? some distros religiously dedicated to software freedom don’t ship the proprietary
linux-firmwareblobs which might, among other things, contain your WiFi drivers.I honestly don’t remember. It was a long time ago. I also tried Mint thinking it might be more intuitive, but I couldn’t get WiFi to work with either of them.
virtually any built in card works these days. with 3rd party cards… well you’re better of looking up it’s chipset and how well it is supported by linux before you buy one, for example some cheap realtek dongles had no WPA3 support and worse throughput. Iirc Broadcom has for a long time been hostile towards linux.
I can totally relate to this. I‘m pretty far into my own linux journey and if I didnt have so much stuff already done and wouldnt know as much, I probably would have a really bad time sometimes.
It’s definitely not the majority (anymore, I guess) but there are some real elitist douchebags out there. The amount of times I got RTFMd is unholy.
By now, I do understand some of it as some users get really frustrated. This is hard to deal with sometimes as using polished windows has made them used to being pampered into helplessness. This does trigger me at times. I have to work hard to not RTFM them in that case.
TL;DR: imo, a lot of folks on both sides get frustrated because M$ and others make shiny, well oiled data collection machines and linux is neither the former nor the latter.
I’m not sure Windows is particularly polished though. Going back to it on occasion it feels kind of awful to use. I think most people are just fighting decades of muscle memory on how to use a PC
(That attitude has completely changed. Maybe give it another try sometime)
Lemmy is basically a Linux forum these days. Have you seen that kind of attitude here on Lemmy? You should give Linux another go and post any problem you have here on Lemmy.
It’s just too much work, and I’ve only ever experienced Gnome in the distros I’ve tried and hated it. Windows is far from perfect but I know it like the back of my hand. Every step of the way in trying to use Linux for me was a chore.
It’s more of a hobby than a daily driver for someone that games on PC games ranging from the early 90s to modern games. Too much hassle when I just wanna install and play.
For me
protonlaunch game.exeworked for >90% of the games that didn’t provide native releases. so glad steam deck came out.Yeah steam deck is awesome I have one as well and it got me to dabble with installing Linux on my laptop but there was just too many things that had to be done to get it running how I wanted. You’re selling it massively short by saying one command rules all. For instance, my laptop has an igpu and a desktop 2070 in it and Linux wanted to constantly use the igpu by default in games and it wasn’t that easy for someone that doesn’t use Linux that often to find a fix for that. I have a kid and a fulltime job I dont feel like configuring crap when I get home to have less time to play ya know?
I’ve honestly had better luck with retro games on Linux than windows. Half the time lutris can auto install the game with minimal input, and patch the games etc - and even with abandonware titles I just pointed proton at them after installation and no issues.
If you’re on older integrated graphics however, I will admit it can be a lot more problematic.
People told me “oh yeah, gaming on Linux is a comparable or even better experience compared with gaming on windows.” Well after a whole weekend spent troubleshooting and trying different distros only to get 20fps max and no controller support for a 5 year old pc game I went back to windows and was playing within about 30 minutes including the time to install the OS.
Edit: Before you go giving me tips: yes, I tried that too. You’re missing the point if your solution to the above is “more troubleshooting, I guess.”
This right here is why the Linux community needs to pick a single desktop that just works for people who are switching over for gaming purposes.
Yeah, having the choice of multiple Distros is great from a technical perspective. But most people forgot what it was like on Windows.
Gamers are not interested in distro hopping on their first time attempt to get Linux to work.
If we’re going to say that a benefit of Linux is the multiple distros to a new person, you had better warn them that some distros are not as easy to work with as others. Looking at the cool desktop pictures on the website is not a sign that a distro is easy to work with.
Usually this means you didint install the proprietary graphics driver. Which you also have to do on windows (Geforce Experience )
30 minutes including installing the os
Having installed windows 11 about a month ago, I know that is a big fat lie.
Last time I changed the SSD on my computer, it took me about 30 min to make the Windows ready to play Steam games. Win 11 took 15 min to install, the Nvidia driver and Steam took the rest. So it’s not a lie at all.
Because to most people, a computer is like buying a car, it should just work.
A Mac is an Automatic, no configuration is needed outside of your favorite radio stations. Sure most people hate that the infotainment was replaced with a touch screen that only support carplay. But hey for the rest of the time they don’t think about it. A widows PC is the same thing, but made by Tesla/BMW where the heated seats are a subscription service.
Linux is a range from manual to a kit car. Sure it can look like the big boys or even cooler. But the amount of work that’s required is insane to the average user, and most people won’t want to touch the hood, let alone to configure the infotainment so it can connect to your iPhone since it technically supports car play. But to those that know how to use it will swear that their manual car is better in every way than an automatic.
That’s the thing about Linux though, is it really depends on the user. The average user doesn’t need any more than a web browser and maybe some Office suite. Chrome OS has shown this. Linux is actually great for these users.
It’s the semi-power user, the one that has to do a lot of work, but doesn’t know much about computers that Linux seems to trip up.
It’s like that wojack bell curve meme.
You perfectly describe Linux from 10-20 years ago but a lot has changed and improved
Last time I installed Linux, it took me about 30 minutes. I had a perfectly fine system that I then improved to my personal likings because I can, not because I must.
I also (about a month or so ago) installed windows 11 and it was a shit show. Getting the ISO installed on a USB stick already took hours and more attempts than I wish to remember to get something that actually worked.
Then the installation, It took literally hours, loads of “I want to sell you shit you don’t need!” screens, I needed to download gigabyte sized files for drivers with bloat shit, it managed to freeze within minutes.
People pay money for that shit and it will spy on you.
Meanwhile in Linux land, you can have it as simple or as complex as you wish
Don’t come up with the “but inevitably something will break and then you need a command line she’ll” because have you ever had the fun of needing to dig around in undocumented windows registry bullshit, or the windows “power” shelll?
I too am using Linux, but finding an “automatic” linux is difficult since most distros are about performance. It’s like trying to find an Italian Sports Car with an automatic.
And for the general user, they don’t install their OS. It’s preinstalled on a Laptop, or an all-in-one, think-dell office PC that their company provides them. Sign in like you do with everything today and you are good to go. Even Macs do this.
Linux has improved, but the desktop os’s need to be more stable (in 1 year I broke 2 manjaro installs and my BTFS file system died in my Fedora install), packages need to be more up to date, and there needs to be gui’s for any setting that a user needs to access like restarting a systemd process. A general user will not touch a terminal. Let alone download a git repo, just to update the latest build of Mangohud since the Ubuntu version is so out of date that the GOverlay GUI Utility that’s on Ubuntu doesn’t work with it.
manjaro’s so notorious for it’s bad mainteinance it even gained a website for tracking the last time they screwed something up. I’m glad I haven’t seen anyone recommend that shitty distro in a while. Tbh nix (the package manager) has proven to provide excellent stability no matter whether I used it on macOS or Artix. It’s been more than a year since I had to reinstall my OS or generally deal with large scale system breakage. Also have grub set up to provide both a LTS and edge kernel, for example. The last installation that broke for me was well over a year ago, it was OpenSUSE Tumbleweed and it also used btrfs. Which is a pretty nice FS if set up correctly, but by default it’s quite slow. Then I switched to Alpine since I’ve been using it on a VPS for a couple of months earlier and absolutely loved it. I don’t count fucking up the configuration files as system breaking because I assume the consensus to be that we refer to unexpected issues here. Getting rid of GDM, glibc, bash, systemd, coreutils and similar bloat not only speeds up your system, it also improves it’s security and stability.
I wonder when I’ll become so deranged to start tinkering around with BSDs and Gentoo, it’ll be pretty funny if instead of wasting my time gaming I’ll waste it hacking my system to improve it’s responsiveness by 1-2% lmao
TBH, when Manjaro broke it was my fault, I know it was my own fault, and I feel if I was running EndeavorOS the results would’ve been the same if I did the same actions.
That said, yes the miss-matches repos drove me insane, especially as someone who likes keep my update number at 0, and I can’t update AUR packages. And there were a few niggles and grips here and there. But as a power user, who didn’t want to touch a terminal, Manjaro has the best set of Setting and Configuration GUI’s I’ve used thus far in Linux. If another distro took what Manjaro did, but kept it to the Arch Repos, then I’d use it in a heart beat.
In my opinion, the biggest problem with Linux is it requires tinkering in terminal which nearly every non-tech savvy person finds intimidating. Even if it’s a simple command. Until Linux has a shiny dumbed-down GUI for everything you need to do, it won’t catch on for the average PC user.
Linux has made incredible progress in this area though. But, everytime I use a new Linux install, I encounter errors or something that requires troubleshooting and terminal use.
Some of those that don’t find it intimidating do find it tiring. I grew up using MSDOS and later Windows 3.1 when it came out. Most of what we did was in command line and having everything in a GUI is just a QOL upgrade you don’t really want to come back from.
I’ve been using mint on my laptop for a few months now and it’s great, but like you said there’s still some things that require command line tinkering and I just don’t have the energy for it.
It’s the same reason I like console games, they just work. Don’t get me wrong, the console modding scene is non-existent and any kind of customization is generally out of the question, but it just works, and it works the first time every time.Full agree on tiring. I work as an SRE, my job is administrating Linux machines (containers these days). When I need to use a computer, I just want it to work out of the box and Linux doesn’t offer that yet. I don’t want to spend time getting it to work
Tbh for some people there’s no going back once you learn it. Navigating a GUI and clicking through several buttons vs having a nice shell with completions and whatnot like Fish and learning piping at some point just becomes faster, same thing as using modal editors.
I’m comfortable using a terminal, but with my Linux machines s common pattern is:
Need to get some software working. Find how to fix it, edit some config files.
Months later I run a system update and it’s starts asking me about merging the changes I made to various files. What were they for again? Are they still even necessary with the update or are the values I changed no longer used?
Then sometimes, something I installed is no longer supported, or needs a manual update because of how I installed it.
Thank you! Glad I’m not the only one to mention this or agree with it. Had some twit bitching at me last night to prove it, as if I kept screenshots or something. I just fixed things and moved on.
Agreed. This should be the #1 priority for at least one Linux distribution to make it accessible. The issue is that Linux fanatics will cry blasphemy for it and that’s counter intuitive.
Tinkering in terminal is the thing I like most about Linux. What’s holding me back is most of the tools and games I want to use is not yet available on Linux but I think it’s getting there soon
Nkt with GNOME. I only needed to use the Terminal in GNOME to do complex things an ordinary user wouldn’t do anyway.
