• Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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    7 months ago

    Yeah that line always bothered me as well. Rogue should have just pocked her. Yeah, feel how fine do you feel now

    • Slovene@feddit.nl
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      7 months ago

      No, it’s more like “we don’t need to change our skin colour or our sexuallity etc., we are perfect already.”

      • WanderingVentra@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        That’s definitely what they were going for. X-men had other jokes clearly indicating the comparison between the LGBTQ movement and being a mutant. The comparison doesn’t work as well for kill everything she touches lady, though lol.

  • people_are_cute@lemmy.sdf.org
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    7 months ago

    I really wished Rogue had just taken her gloves off and held Storm’s hand in that scene. Would have put the point across beautifully.

    • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      “Theres nothing to cure? Is that Right Ms. Amazing powers with no horrific disfigurement thats not a threat to anyone?” takes off glove “If I dont need a cure, then shake my hand. Go on. Do it. I’m perfect as I am, right?”

      “Uh…I…”

      “SHAKE MY GODDAMN HAND BEFORE I WRAP IT AROUND YOUR THROAT YOU STUCK UP ELITIST BITCH”

  • Bonehead@kbin.social
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    7 months ago

    To ba fair, mutants are just an allegory for gay or otherwise non-heterosexual people. This scene makes a lot more sense when you factor this in.

    • psmgx@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Nah. It was more about disability. Prof X is in a wheelchair, Cyclops is blind, Beast or Nightcrawler disfigured, Wolverine is Canadian, etc.

        • frezik@midwest.social
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          7 months ago

          X-Men comics are. X-Men movies are coded to sexual minorities in particular. Like the way they come out to their parents. Including parents who are politicians who are vehemently anti-mutant.

          Bi/pansexuals are often accused of skirting around the problems other LGBTQ+ folk have. They can live an outwardly heteronormative life and not have to deal with social stigma. I fit in this category. This critique is sometimes unfair, but not always.

          Storm is taking up this position in OP. Rogue might be analogous to a very obviously trans person who gets a lot of looks in public, if not worse. You could see why someone in that position might want a shot that makes all their problems go away.

          • SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            That’s because the whole point is responding to the issues of the day. The comics first came out in the 60s, and the main players are clear allegories for MLK, Malcom X, and the KKK. 2000s movies play off 2000s issues.

      • Zanderlus@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Nah. It’s more of a general allegory encompassing all forms of minority groups and social outcasts. Different writers and editors choose which ones to highlight. For example, while the original Lee, Kirby 60s run–and Chris Claremont during the 70s–might have emphasized disabilities, through numerous stories like Days of Future Past, God Loves Man Kills, and New Mutants #45, Claremont during the 80s prioritized race and sexual orientation.

        • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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          7 months ago

          Isn’t Wolverine like 500 years old or something? I’m sure there’s some movie (possibly Logan) in which he fights in the American civil war.

          So I suppose maybe he just moves countries every 50 years or so, so people don’t notice he never dies or ages.

    • tmyakal@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      So Rogue is like Dean Pelton in this?

      Gay doesn’t even begin to cover it.

    • TheHarpyEagle@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I definitely get that’s the point, but the analogy breaks down when applied to characters like Rogue. Like there may be something there about how you can feel guilty about who you are because it “hurts” other people, but there are real world ways to give those people support and love without needing to “cure” them. Rogue doesn’t have that option, there’s not a found family that can make her not kill people when she touches them. There’s something innately and indisputably dangerous about her, which is not a great feel to apply to any marginalized group.

          • hansl@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            I disagree. There are definitely people who would be “you just need to control it, no need to change it”. Which is why Storm is portrayed like that. It’s a lack of empathy.

          • Bonehead@kbin.social
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            7 months ago

            Tell that to the gay kid in the 80s during the AIDS crysis when everyone was scared of gay people, who just wanted the thing that makes everyone hate them just go away.

      • nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
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        7 months ago

        I see that meme a lot in autism communities, and it seems to fit very well. Every time it’s posted, it gets controversial between people with low support needs claiming that there’s nothing wrong with us, and people with higher support needs, claiming that it’s not wrong to seek a cure.

    • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
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      7 months ago

      then maybe don’t have one that literally kills people she touches, or is that some fucked up reference to aids?

  • AeonFelis@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Fun fact - in the comics Forge made a gun that strips away mutant powers, and the government tried to use in on Rogue (which, having absorbed Ms. Marvel, was much more of a threat than her version in the Fox movies) - but Storm, ignorant to the gun’s purpose, took the bullet for her. After that, lamenting the loss of her powers became her entire personality for a while. Comics being comics eventually she got them back - but I think that she is still a bit salty about this, and it shows in that scene.

  • AeonFelis@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    We look at mutants and see cool powers, but mutants in the Marvel universe are first and foremost a hated minority. Storm wants to fight the very idea of the cure, because if the cure exists - mutants will be forced to take it. The poster boy of the cure in that movie was was Warren Worthington III, and he got one of the relatively good mutations (yes, it’s physically visible, but it’s not one of the grotesque ones) but his father still tried to force the cure on him.

    It sucks for mutants like Rogue who really do want to get rid of their powers, but mutantkind as a whole does not have the luxury of allowing the cure to exist.

    • MrBusiness@lemmy.zip
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      7 months ago

      I liked the premise of the story, hopefully they can try it again in some capacity with a director that’s not shit.

    • lad@programming.dev
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      7 months ago

      Yeah, the scene immediately reminded me of the whole “we will cure you homosexuality” prospects of the (hopefully) past

  • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Nah, there is nothing wrong with Rogue. She just lives in a world where her evolutionary trait is frowned upon by society. If she was allowed to embrace her true self and kill indiscriminately she would be much happier. Even more so than giving up her genetic advantage.

    It might be lonely for a time but we all know she eventually runs into someone who can neutralize her power.

    Edit: looking online Rogue also gains full control over her powers in some instances.

    • RealFknNito@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Gentle reminder there’s a kid who got the power to blow himself up. Once. And he used it. Her perspective on the evolutionary trait is positive because she got a good roll of the dice while those around her got significantly less lucky. She is able to restrain her power unlike instant death touch girl, she’s able to use it multiple times unlike Bailey Hoskins, and her big struggle is she can’t go murder psycho? Again I really think her perspective is positive because she’s got significantly more control and usability out of her mutation.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        The page doesn’t say how they figured out he had the power to do this. So- how did they figure out he had the power do to this?

        He was already at Xavier’s school before he blew himself up.

        • RealFknNito@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          I believe there was either another mutant with the ability to, or they found a way to, detect mutant abilities. I saw a short video that recapped the comics so I unfortunately don’t know a lot of the details. The name of the comic is linked on the wiki though.

    • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      Ok but shouldn’t she just end this argument by grabbing Storm? Iirc, not only would she kill her or at least shut her up, she’d also take on her powers and get to be the weather goddess for awhile. Be nice to see what someone with her emotional damage did with that. Would it be “You get a tornado! You get a tornado! Everyone gets a tornado!” Or "I’m just gonna send the rain to the starving drought-stricken children in Africa and let the sun shine rainbows on the Pride parade, I wanna bring joy for once in my fucked-up life! "

      • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Yeah, rogue is the true master of adaptation. Comic book rogue even gets to keep their powers indefinitely, if she absorbs long enough. She has the potential to become the most powerful being in the marvel universe.

        • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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          7 months ago

          Now I want a rogue based movie.

          Jean Gray being the big bad wasn’t very good but I think rogue could work because he’s a believable character.

    • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
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      7 months ago

      but like she clearly doesn’t want to kill people, what you’re saying is effectively that people should be entirely determined by their genetics and have no say in the matter, which is… rather fucked up?

      it gets extra terrible when we remember that a significant chunk of humanity is born with evolutionary traits specifically evolved to help hunter-gatherer tribes, i don’t think people with ADHD and autism want to be compared to someone who kills everyone she touches…

      • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        She doesn’t want to kill people because society has taught her that killing is wrong. There is no societal precedent for someone with her ability. If a shark was raised to believe it was a tuna it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a shark.

        And I know for a fact that ADHD people don’t appreciate the fact they have to medicate to be valued in their society.

        Edit: but can’t you just except that I am on magnetos side, professor x?

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          She doesn’t want to kill people because society has taught her that killing is wrong.

          Yeah, something about perpetuating your own species seems like a logical reason to teach people that.

          Also, most people instinctively do not want to kill. That’s why military training has to cram the idea of “you have to kill people” down their trainees’ throats, and reportedly many still don’t pull the trigger when they see they will actually end up killing someone.

          Honestly, this makes me worry about you and what you’ve done or plan to do.

          • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Lol

            We’re talking about fictional characters. Rogue is no longer of the same geneious as homosapian. Her progeny will define a whole evolutionary line. Your simple mindedness makes me worried people like you vote.

            Rogues only obligation is to preserve the traits she has been given for survival of her species.

              • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Like I mentioned before there are instances where rogue has complete control. Also she could find a suitable mate that is powerful enough to withstand her power.

                Edit: I’m glad I could introduce someone to the driving conflict in xmen. Your welcome.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  Also she could find a suitable mate that is powerful enough to withstand her power.

                  Such as? And why would she have sex with that person just for that reason? Do you think she’s some sort of mating robot?

            • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
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              7 months ago

              i… i think you need to go watch crash course’s videos on genomics and evolution, this isn’t how evolution works.

              also nice personal insult there, definitely makes people want to listen to anything you have to say

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              There’s a lot wrong with what you just said.

              1. It’s “Genus”.

              2. Homo is the genus, Sapiens is the species.

              3. Taxonomy works in retrospect. We don’t classify new species nor branches until they already exist. We can’t simply predict.

              4. A species is defined as a group that can interbreed and produce viable, fertile offspring. Mules for instance aren’t a distinct species because they are largely infertile. This is why we classify in retrospect.

              4.5. As a result it’s impossible to know if Rogue would even constitute a new species. She would need to be capable of having children who can have children with each other. And I don’t even want to get into how fucked up the implications of that are. It also means that if Rogue or her children could have viable offspring with ordinary humans, they cannot be different species.

              1. Even if she was a whole new species, Rogue would probably not be an entirely separate Genus either. She would likely be Homo still. The split for her species wouldn’t go that high up in taxonomy.

              2. An organism is not only obligated to preserve its specific traits. It’s obligated to preserve as many traits similar to its own as possible. This is why you’ll see family groups in nature work together. Uncles and aunts will nurture their nieces and nephews because a substantial portion of their own genetics lives on in their siblings’ progeny. They can still pass on some of their traits in that way.

              6.5. This is why some people think gay people exist, from an evolutionary perspective. A tribe with 12 adults and 5 children is able to better provide for their collective kids than a tribe of 12 adults and 6 children. Some of the gay people’s DNA is still in their nieces and nephews.

              1. Sometimes you don’t need to even share genetics with someone else. Completely unrelated cat moms will raise their litters together, because it raises their chance of survival overall.

              This is all basic college biology. You should be able to find it fairly easily.