“What Israeli forces are doing in besieged North Gaza cannot be allowed to continue,” the human rights official said.

Israel could kill everyone left in Northern Gaza if its assault on the enclave continues, a United Nations relief official warned on Saturday

“Hospitals have been hit, and health workers have been detained. Shelters have been emptied and burned down. First responders have been prevented from saving people from under the rubble. Families have been separated, and men and boys are being taken away by the truckload,”

Msuya estimated that Israel’s actions in the north had killed hundreds and displaced tens of thousands. According to Al Jazeera, an Israeli siege on the north that began earlier in October has killed around 640.

“The Biden-Harris administration must stop the flow of U.S. weapons to Israel which constitutes a necessary step to halting Israel’s ongoing war crimes,” IMEU wrote on social media Saturday. “It’s time for an arms embargo now.”

    • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      611·
      19 days ago

      The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.

      Terrifying, but also completely obvious, and somehow most politicians don’t seem to be upset at the vast loss of innocent life by state terrorism.

        • MonkeMischief@lemmy.todayEnglish
          12·
          19 days ago

          “But you see, it’s not me, it’s not my, family, in your head, in your head, they are fighting, with their tanks, and their bombs, and their bombs, and their guns, in your head, they are crying.”

        • TrueStoryBob@lemmy.worldEnglish
          12·
          19 days ago

          The blood of their own people is also on their hands… because the IDF and the Netanyahu government uses them as human shields; it’s a fact that they play fast and lose with Israeli lives. Remember that they had intelligence an attack was highly likely around the month of Oct… they still let that music festival continue and didn’t attempt to evacuate or even warn the kibbutz near the walls surrounding Gaza. They wanted any kind of attack to be at least marginally successful so they could justify bulldozing and occupying Gaza so that settlements could commence there.

          • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            2·
            19 days ago

            They wanted any kind of attack to be at least marginally successful so they could justify bulldozing and occupying Gaza so that settlements could commence there.

            Yes. You’re replying to someone saying Because to them, no lives matter. Except their own of course. And ‘no lives matter’ doesn’t distinguish based on nationality as listed on e.g. a passport.

  • CritFail@lemmy.worldEnglish
    853·
    19 days ago

    If Israel actually completes its mission and kills every man, woman, and child in Palestine, would that make the western powers any more inclined to call it genocide?

    • cley_faye@lemmy.worldEnglish
      31·
      19 days ago

      They would start to “seriously consider the possibility that perhaps something was not right”

      • Dasus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        12·
        19 days ago

        “We will have to think about scheduling a call to plan a meeting to start having talks about perhaps organising a committee which would make a recommendation as to how we should go about getting ready to write a sternly worded press release (in which we won’t criticise Israel too much).”

        The four stage strategy

    • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.worldEnglish
      17·
      19 days ago

      Probably not for a few decades at least. It’s only when today’s college aged people take power that it’ll get labeled as such. And even then, it’s not a guarantee.

    • Nihilistra@lemmy.worldEnglish
      141·
      19 days ago

      Most probably suspect it’s genocide and know they, by not speaking out, at least support it passively. But it just doesn’t matter for their immediate or the near future, so nothing will happen. Thoughts and prayers…

      I see two main culprits that enable Israel to eradicate the Palestinian people and their livelihood in manner and speed we see now. The US and germany. Many other western political elites seem far more divided on the topic but probably fear the backlash of speaking out.

      70% of the weapons come from the US and they will never stop to supply their FOB. Democrats or republicans will veto everything and make it as hard as possible to even reach a clear global verdict on what happened and how to classify it.

      Most of the remaining 30% come from germany.

      Here the key argument is that Israel is worthy of unwavering support due to the historical fact of the holocaust and the inhumane acts inflicted on the Jewish population.

      Scholz said recently that the security of Israel is a National interest of germany. As a german I feel this too, although for me the state of Israel and the global jewish population we did unspeakable crimes to are not necessarily the same. There are lines that can be crossed that limit my willingness of support. It’s not unconditional and they crossed them. Israel crossed them, not the jews.

      I also feel past and present crimes the jewish people had to endure can be used to understand why Israel is acting the way it does but it can’t be a justification of their barbaric way of waging this war against Hamas.

      In short, nothing will change. Sorry for the long reply, this shit really grinds my gears.

      • Doorbook@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        18 days ago

        US, Germany, UK, Canada, Ireland, Italy, Spain, and many more you have to dig a bit to find the details sometimes

        Edit: Here info about Ireland:

        I found out the other day from an interview with Irish advocate but here some info about it:

        https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/05/28/sharp-increase-in-export-of-irish-goods-to-israel-that-could-be-used-for-military-purposes-report-shows/

        https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41404601.html

        • Nihilistra@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          18 days ago

          It was not ours to decide after the war but its an interesting thought. I’d like to see the outcome of that alternative timeline.

          Many of the administrative positions were still filled with former Nazis. Most germans in denial of what happened. Also the winning powers seemed far more interested in the spoils of war compared to a just but self-limiting gesture of goodwill.

          Sketchy ground for such huge undertaking that would have made german willingness and acceptance paramount.

          Also the first thing that comes to my mind is that this decision would jave encaged the victims with the perpetrators. Tough deal to sell to the world.

          • just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            3·
            18 days ago

            I think germany is still in denial, i think part of the reason why germany is so opposed to even acknowledge palestinian genocide is because, to acknowledge it, is to acknowledge that the “israel solution” was inadequate.

            On its core, the rise of hitler and persecution of jews were a result of racism. The economy fell and people started to blame the jews, it could just as easily have been another minority group.

            You can actually see a similar behaviour in modern day germany, The economy went downhill because of a series of bad decisions before covid (over reliance on russian oil, closing all nuclear plants etc.) And the german population started to align themselves with neo nazi (like AfD), as evident from the last election. Neo-nazism now blames immigrants for all the german troubles.

            Clearly whatever steps Germany (and the west in general) took, including the creation of israel, were not enough.

            Feel free to correct me if i am wrong about anything.

            • boomzilla@programming.devEnglish
              1·
              17 days ago

              Yeah and now our industrial gas tanks are filled with non-russian gas, we got one of the most stable energy grids in Europe, we import 2% of our energy from other countries (0.5% from the nuclear power france) and export some of it on good days and energy prices & inflation rates are on a pre-2022 level. Thanks to the Green party.

              Then we got rich populists like Merz, Söder, Linnemann, Spahn or Schäffler who are in close ties with the fossil fuel industry (The Republic, BlackRock, Heritage Foundation, Atlas Network, Heartland Institute, Koch Brothers) whose only target during their electoral campaigns are the Greens, immigrants and people on welfare payments. Blaming the Greens for political decissions they supported themselves while they were in power for 16 years (nuclear power exit, end of combustion engines, heating without fossil fuels and fricking bottle caps). Instead of working together with the progressives against the neo nazis from AfD they proclaim they’re the solution against their uprising by fighting against the progressives. Weimar Republic reloaded.

              All while our political imbecile citizens are believing their talking points and the smear campaigns of “Welt” and “Bild” (funded by above listed networks) that the Greens will be our downfall. I would leave this stupid country if I had the money.

              https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1842811627994759358.html

              https://x.com/Tentoads4truth/status/1822625100979397011/photo/2

            • Crass Spektakel@lemmy.worldEnglish
              16·
              18 days ago

              Right-Wing Parties are only a concern in the low populated Eastern German parts. I assure you, in Bavaria we have not forgotten Munich 1972. When Israel took care of the heads behind it pretty much every German applauded.

          • مهما طال الليل@lemm.eeEnglish
            22·
            18 days ago

            The real reason is that Zionists and Western powers wanted to use Israel to colonize and subjugate the region and also solve Europe’s “Jewish problem”, a new iteration of the Crusader states.

            “We should there form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence.” – Theodor Herzl

            Quote source: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/quot-the-jewish-state-quot-theodor-herzl

            • just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              5·
              18 days ago

              The belford declaration was signed for 3 reasons:

              1. the christians at the time thought that by sending jews to the holy land will bring forth their messiah and the world will end.

              2. europe (including britain) had a lot of anti-semites, and the creation of israel meant that there would be less jews in europe.

              3. britain wanted a buffer state/intermediate state between themselves and india so they can influence and subjugate those regions more effectively.

              The only jew in the british parliament opposed both the declaration and herzl’s idea of zionism. In fact jewish community themselves opposed zionism but then hitler came to power which caused many jews to change their opinions.

    • SulaymanF@lemmy.worldEnglish
      142·
      18 days ago

      They’ll move those goalposts. “We killed everyone in Gaza by having them starve to death but we spared West Bank!”

      “We didn’t massacre the Arabs who have Israeli citizenship!”

      “We just deported every Arab from Israel and all territory we control, but we didn’t kill them!”

      • assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.worldEnglish
        91·
        18 days ago

        Or they’ll say something like ‘well actually, it’s genoslaughter not genocide because israel didn’t mean to kill all the Gazan’s they just did so accidentally.’

    • RubberElectrons@lemmy.worldEnglish
      121·
      18 days ago

      This is so disgusting. I never wanted to visit Israel even if it was for $free, but now I have even less respect for those Zionist assholes, and I had low respect for them before.

    • Doorbook@lemmy.worldEnglish
      81·
      19 days ago

      The colonization power couldn’t say the word ceasefire. I don’t think the can say the word genocide.

      • CritFail@lemmy.worldEnglish
        22·
        19 days ago

        That defence holds about such water as a colander. There is so much evidence to the contrary that it boggles the mind. They have bombed hospitals, schools, bomb shelters, kettled the entire population into a tiny parcel of land in the southernmost tip of the country while they finish levelling the rest of Palestine, and stopped all aid, journalists, water, and food entering the country. And then to add insult to injury they bomb the safe zones.

        A country’s right to defend itself does not extend to this. This isn’t defence.

        Do they expect the civilians with blown off limbs in bombed-out hospitals to walk to these not-so-safe zones? How do they expect the entire population to survive in these cramped conditions with no access to critical food, water, and medicine heading into winter? (Hint: they don’t.)

          • TheFriar@lemm.eeEnglish
            142·
            19 days ago

            bomb shelters

            can you provide a source for this

            So…even if they didn’t, you’d be fine with the hospitals, schools, safe zones, etc? Just because of one fuckin flimsy ass excuse from Israel? And have you seen proof of every school, hospital, et al that’s been bombed being used by Hamas? Are you not asking for proof of that? But when the people are being fuckin slaughtered, you need proof that EVERY SINGLE FUCKIN safe haven had been leveled before you fuckin stand up for the people facing a goddamn genocide? Wheat the fuck is wrong with you

            But fine.

            https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-palestinian-civilians-safety-airstrikes-f38f27da1dd995acc14e6db1524761e7

            • bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              413·
              19 days ago

              I have heard from attacks on schools, hospitals, and safe zones. These were all used by combatants and thus legal military objectives under international humanitarian law.

              I have never even heard of bomb shelters existing for civilians in Gaza.

              • TheFriar@lemm.eeEnglish
                133·
                19 days ago

                …do you even hear yourself?

                These people don’t have bomb shelters. WHERE THEY WERE TOLD BY ISRAEL TO SHELTER, THEY WERE FUCKING SLAUGHTERED. THAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM YOU GODDAMN MONSTER

                • Doorbook@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  52·
                  19 days ago

                  Don’t engage with troll. They are either bot, or have no plan to engage in any form of discussion instead utilities your time, to read news or maybe send letter or share the news with people around you. It is more productive to stop the genocide than talking to a bot or an idiot online.

          • CritFail@lemmy.worldEnglish
            61·
            19 days ago

            Can you provide a source for this?

            This attack was four days ago

            For many months we have heard claims of imminent death starvation of millions and that evacuation from Rafah would be impossible. These claims didn’t materialize.

            I mean, evacuation is impossible at this point isnt it? Where would they go? Back to the levelled north? Force their way into Egypt? The fact that they aren’t all dead yet doesn’t disprove that Israel’s intent is to cause it, they just haven’t finished yet.

          • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
            53·
            18 days ago

            Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.

            De-development via the Gaza Occupation

            Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

            Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

            • Page 105

            Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.

            • page 240

            In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

            • Page 402

            • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

            Blockade, including Aid

            Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

            After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

            The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

            Peace Process and Solution

            Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

            How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

            ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

            One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

            Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

            Israel justifies nearly every attack on civilians with the lie of ‘human shields’

            Human Shields

            Hamas:

            Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.

            Israel:

            Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:

            Deliberate Attacks on Civilians

            Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:

            Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.

            • bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              25·
              18 days ago

              Hamas gained popularity and notoriety during the Oslo peace process by suicide bombings and being fundamentally opposed to any peace deal with Israel. They only exist because of intransigence and inability to compromise among Palestinians.

          • zbyte64@awful.systemsEnglish
            1·
            18 days ago

            For many months we have heard claims of imminent death starvation of millions and that evacuation from Rafah would be impossible. These claims didn’t materialize

            Just thousands of deaths from starvation, not millions, totally not a genocide. /s

      • just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        72·
        18 days ago

        Thats actually a tool of genocide. The whole point of creating the gas chambers was to create an efficient genocide machine. The guards who took the prisoners to the chambers were different from guards who took the bodies. The guards who interacted with the prisoners weren’t allowed to decide who got to live and who did not.

        All in all, the chambers gave the guards a sense of “we are just following orders” feeling thus lessening their guilt. Because no matter how cruel it is, the humans will feel guilt.

        The calling for evacuation is also a similar tool to lessen the guilt of the soldiers. Afterall, those people who died were told to evacuate therefore their death is on their hands.

      • undergroundoverground@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        19 days ago

        Israel declaring everyone should just leave is great and everything but where is safe for them to go?

        Its just, to me, the only places they seem to be able to go that might be safe are outside of Palestine but maybe I’m just being cynical.

          • chaonaut@lemmy.worldEnglish
            5·
            18 days ago

            Palestine’s border crossings are controlled by Israel. Early on, Israel stopped allowing border crossing. To the point that a major international concern was the inability for any aid trucks to enter. Additionally, movement within the West Bank has been heavily restricted by Israel’s checkpoints. And Israel has for a very long time actively denied Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homes if they do leave. If it is difficult to understand why this sort of forced movement and controlled borders is an issue, I encourage you to read up on the Trail of Tears and South African Apartheid.

            Movement and Access in the West Bank | August 2023 West Bank movement restrictions make life harder for residents and aid organisations

          • undergroundoverground@lemmy.worldEnglish
            4·
            18 days ago

            Its sad how western colonial imperialists will try describe ethnic cleansing as a good or necessary thing.

            As I suggested, the idea is and always has been to force palestinians out from Palestine, so they can be denied the right to ever return to thier homeland

            In the exact way Israel has done to thousands of palestinians before and were all supposed to pretend we can’t see exactly what we’re looking at.

            Also, “war” implies either side could win. This isn’t a war, its ethnic cleansing, for the express purpose of illegally colonising stolen land.

  • Treczoks@lemmy.worldEnglish
    423·
    19 days ago

    I would not be surprised if they did that - and then continued their way south. Israel is clearly out to exterminate the Palestinian people by any means possible, from outright shooting and bombing them to starving them and killing them by witholding medical services.

      • Treczoks@lemmy.worldEnglish
        10·
        18 days ago

        If they would nuke Gaza, they could not occupy it to the Israeli settlers, which are already distributing that land among themselves.

        Pushing them around like that keeps them from accessing food, rest, shelter, and medication. It is a tried and tested method used by evil governments all over the earth. Look up “Trail of Tears”. Gaza is the same, just with a forth and back movement. Any Gaza inhabitant that dies of these conditions saves an IDF bullet, and they can claim “it wasn’t us!”.

        • foenkyfjutschah@programming.devEnglish
          1·
          17 days ago

          i don’t doubt that Hamas and affiliated terrorists unleashed a terrible war with its progrom on October 7th also for the people they hide within. but Gazans are not being exterminated. there are currently estimated less than 43,000 combat and civilian casualties from a population of more than 2 million people. that would be a very inefficient extermination and i won’t calculate how long it would take eventually for that non-existing plan to succeed.

          • index@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            6·
            18 days ago

            “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

            Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019

            “Often, cash was delivered in suitcases by a Qatari official who was escorted by Israeli intelligence officers. According to the New York Times, Netanyahu continued backing the payments in response to Qatari questions as late as September 2023”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Netanyahu

          • boomzilla@programming.devEnglish
            6·
            17 days ago

            Please listen to “Jung & Naiv”, Episode 733. Tilo interviews an ex-IDF soldier, now peace- and anti-occupation activist. You got a very skewed view about the goals of Israels far-right zionists.

  • kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    352·
    18 days ago

    As a (very ashamed) person living in Israel (I find it hard to call myself Israeli) there is no maybe or what ifs about it, Bibi wants to kill every single Palestinian and the Kahanists (ex: Naftali Bennett) want to kill every Muslim. There is no excuse, Israel is a genocidal apartheid state. If I as a person living in Israel can acknowledge that then yall .world users absolutely have no excuse.

  • Gammelfisch@lemmy.worldEnglish
    24·
    18 days ago

    What the hell do you think 155mm artillery shells will do to a civilian population? Gaza is also being used to conceal Israel’s expansion in the West Bank.

  • Dot.@feddit.orgEnglish
    245·
    19 days ago

    This one of the cases where I think TruthOut misrepresented the statement, here it’s in full:

    Statement on North Gaza by Joyce Msuya, Acting Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator

    What Israeli forces are doing in besieged North Gaza cannot be allowed to continue.

    Hospitals have been hit and health workers have been detained. Shelters have been emptied and burned down. First responders have been prevented from saving people from under the rubble. Families have been separated and men and boys are being taken away by the truckload.

    Hundreds of Palestinians have reportedly been killed. Tens of thousands have been forced to flee yet again.

    The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.

    Such blatant disregard for basic humanity and for the laws of war must stop.

    • cygnus@lemmy.caEnglish
      821·
      19 days ago

      That’s being charitable. They’ve completely fabricated a statement and attributed it to Msuya. No wonder their “fact check” score is so low.

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
        191·
        19 days ago

        How? The title is not in quotes. The quoted statement is equivalent to the title, it simply highlights that it is Israel doing the killing. The only difference is passive vs active voice.

        “The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying,” Msuya said. “Such blatant disregard for basic humanity and for the laws of war must stop."

      • shaserlark@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        17·
        19 days ago

        I don’t get it. MBFC is not credible so their opinion doesn’t matter.

        The entire population in northern Gaza is at risk of dying according to a UN official. They are at risk of dying because Israel is besieging the north of Gaza, denying food and medical supplies, is bombing them in their shelters and hospitals, is arresting medical staff and killing civilians in all sorts of other cruel ways. That is, if they don’t starve to death or die while giving birth or from curable diseases or minor injuries.

        They are dying because of Israel’s genocide. If you die in a genocide it’s because you’re being killed. So yeah the entire population of Gaza is at risk of being killed by Israel.

        Using the premise that Israel is committing genocide you can see that it’s very easy to show that the two statements are equivalent.

      • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        135·
        19 days ago

        The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.

        Quibbling over this not being a damning enough statement is ridiculous.

        • cygnus@lemmy.caEnglish
          820·
          19 days ago

          That isn’t how journalism works. If you say someone said something, they had better have really said that thing. You can’t twist and rephrase it willy-nilly. For example, I could twist your reply to say:

          “Caring about factual reporting is ridiculous”
          — Samvega

          • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            185·
            19 days ago

            The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.

            Quibbling over this not being a damning enough statement is ridiculous. Fuck anyone who pretends this isn’t so bad.

            • cygnus@lemmy.caEnglish
              916·
              19 days ago

              Histrionics and distorting the truth doesn’t help the cause at all. The other side can and will point to this as manipulation of the facts and use it to discredit the actual truth.

              • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
                71·
                19 days ago

                Histrionics and distorting the truth doesn’t help the cause at all.

                It’s not a distortion of the truth to read “The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying” and write a headline of “Israel May Kill Every Palestinian Left in North Gaza, UN Official Warns”. Especially when the context of ‘at risk’ is “What Israeli forces are doing…”.

                If I say your whole family is ‘at risk of’ being poisoned due to contaminants in the food in your house, a headline of “whole household may be poisoned” is completely accurate.

                Unless you think ‘What Israeli forces are doing… at risk of dying’ means something else?

                • cygnus@lemmy.caEnglish
                  36·
                  19 days ago

                  It’s not a distortion of the truth to read “The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying” and write a headline of “Israel May Kill Every Palestinian Left in North Gaza, UN Official Warns”.

                  Of course it is, when you’re claiming that somebody else actually said those words. If somebody tells you “XYZ” and you write that the person said “WXY” you don’t get to put their name on it and attribute those words to them.

    • humble peat digger@lemm.eeEnglish
      13·
      17 days ago

      This is what I always say about Russia vs Israel.

      Russia gives Ukrainians Russian citizenship and resettles them away from warzone with all the social security preserved.

      Israel just wants to murder all Palestinians.

      How can some people even see conflicts as the same category? Israel is doing straight genocide again stone age level opponents.

  • VantaBrandon@lemmy.worldEnglish
    112·
    18 days ago

    Without wading into morality, one thing I think is lost on people is that Israel is seen as the “big fish”, and while they certainly have more advanced weapons, they’re just a little dot, surrounded by countries that host millions of people that openly want to commit genocide against them. 2 billion muslims overall vs. 20 million jews. The number of muslims who would openly state they would murder every jew by their own hand if they could outnumbers the amount of jews that would say the same by a vast margin, so… its complicated. If you were encircled by those who were potentially able, and motivated to erase your existence you might make some very questionable decisions too, its easy to judge those decision from the other side of the world while not facing any danger.

    • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      91·
      17 days ago

      That’s not true, that’s only a narrative used by Israel to justify it’s history of ethnic cleansing, and now a year of genocide. Zionism is not Judaism. Nor are Muslims antisemitic, which is an incredibly racist sentiment. Ethnic Cleansing has always been fundamental of Zionism and is the root of the conflict.

      Origins of Zionism

      Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe.

      Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.

      That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.

      Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.

      Quote

      Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.

      The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.

      An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

      Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid

      Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.

      This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.

      The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:

      Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:

      While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements

      The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.

      The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.

      Apartheid Evidence

      Amnesty Report

      Human Rights Watch Report

      B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer

      Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing

      Peace Process and Solution

      Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

      How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

      ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

      One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

      Historian Works on the History