And by trans rights they mean “we don’t wanna be fucking murdered for being trans”
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But that’s not the case very often - you can live your life and a protest won’t stop the murderers.
Protesting is ineffective full stop. In any scenario, I don’t care if it’s conservatives trying to ban abortion or transgender begging not to be killed.
The most effective way to do things still stands: write a letter to your senator, and vote for senators with your views. If you don’t live in a democracy, plot a revolution and fight for your right to vote, which is something the North Koreans would do if they knew.
Protesting is ineffective full stop.
Couldn’t be further from the truth. Every single right you have that doesn’t directly benefit rich white men was achieved by people protesting until politicians could no longer stand in the way of justice without being trampled, figuratively speaking.
Write a letter to your senator and vote for senators with your views
Aww, you still think all senators care about what you want if you’re not supplying the legal bribes they depend on for re-election and personal enrichment? AND you think either of the two major parties of the US will just let you vote for someone who actually represents your interests rather than a corporate stooge who can help further enrich the private corporations masquerading as public organisations?
That’s fucking adorable! 😂
that doesn’t directly benefit rich white men
The in-group was originally even far more narrow than that: it was basically xtian cishet land-owning white men. Thank goodness there is a framework for changing that, though.
“Trans people are gonna get murdered anyway, just be patient and wait until that’s illegal”
…it is illegal. I don’t know why you’re making it seem like there’s a death penalty for it. It’s not Saudi Arabia, you’re chillin’.
I’ll get right on that when there’s someone to vote for in my area with trans positive views. Not like they’ll be voted in given the right wing community in the local area to the point that we need anti-xenophobic counter protests whenever they march downtown.
All my problems are solved, thanks
Edit: Just for reference, I live in the UK, a place that’s just out a ban on places having exclusively gender neutral toilets
protesting is ineffective full stop
and
plot a revolution
Hm. OK
which is something the North Koreans would do if they knew.
You’re one of those people who think the Jews were foolish for not having fought back against the Nazis, aren’t you?
If people did everything your way, the US would still be enslaving black people.
NAH. White men only harassed black men when they were first living amongst each other. Still happens today with old people that grew up in white circles, but they’re dying out. The real reason we had racism is because before the 1800s, black people lived in Africa and white people lived in Europe. When globalism and more travel happened, some met, but it was a lot rarer to see travellers back then. So when the US was founded, people from all around the world flocked and first lived together which lead to a lot of culture shock and some disgusting negative stereotypes. The simple act of white men and black men living in the same country was enough to slowly eliminate racism. And it’s pretty much completely gone in today’s society.
If this was how everyone thought it would be illegal for me to vote or own property or get a divorce…
I’m sorry but genuinely fucking stupid post
You mean if the military didn’t gun them down the second they attempt too.
My hot take: I find transgenderism to be weird. I don’t get it. It weirds me out. I suspect I’m incapable of understanding.
Here’s the thing though: it doesn’t matter what I think. None of my fucking business. They can do what they want. Why is this a national issue?!? I find it weird, yes, but building a political ideology around hating them for it, that’s WAY weirder. And more dangerous.
Americans love freedom right? I’m having trouble thinking of anything more free than waking up a man and going to sleep a woman. Yes, I find it odd. But I’ll fight to the death their right to practice their flavor of odd.
If only one side is trying to take away equal rights from a group, and you respond by saying “nuh uh both sides” then yes you are a hater and a moron.
Wanting to live in peace is just so aggressive
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But at least I am enlightened uwu /s
One side is trying to rob the rights of a group of people, the other side is burning down their own cities claiming to be saving the lives of a marginalized group. One side is advocating for guns to stay legal and accessible while children are mass murdered, the other side has members dressing up in all black and assaulting people in their peaceful protests. One side is denying climate change as the world literally crumbles in front of us, the other is advocating for the abolition of all law enforcement officers.
Both sides are so fucking stupid that I’d feel embarrassed to be a part of either. While my principles are more in line with the left, they are so far from an ideal party that I still wince knowing they’re the best choice I have. Centrists are hated by both sides because we aren’t partisan dick suckers but my god try to have an independent thought. You don’t have to completely agree with every shit take your party churns out. You’re allowed to not be happy with them and still vote for them.
I love when people say “burning their own cities down” point to a city that “burned down”.
Oh my bad, they didn’t 100% complete it and get all the collectables so it doesn’t count.
You’re just full of all sorts of bad takes
Not the only thing they are full of.
Which one did they complete, say, 15% of? Which city had 15% of it burned down?
So it doesn’t matter that a dozen buildings were set on fire, looted, and ruined? Doesn’t matter shop owners were beat with planks of wood? So long as we’re under that 15% it’s acceptable, yeah? I’m glad the defense is “Well they didn’t do enough of it so what’s your point?”
If you’re gonna keep moving goalposts then just hold onto them and keep walking until you hit a specific nameable city and plant them down there.
Holy fuck you don’t even know what moving the goalposts means. I didn’t realize how fucking awful the left was with the pseudo intellectualism. Call it a strawman next. Oh oh, ad hominem too. Just throw all the terms at the wall and hope to god you sound smart. Here, I’ll help you since you have such a short memory.
That’s not an answer. You said cities (multiple) “burned down.” Now you’re suggesting not even 15% of one city burned down? Make up your mind.
Yes and you’re taking the braindead take that for a city to be set fire to it has to reach your arbitrary 15% ratio or it doesn’t count. Shit burned down but for you to acknowledge it, it has to really cripple the whole city huh? Something something goalposts.
Sure it matters. The point is that “a dozen buildings” is very different from " burning down their cities."
In any case it’s a bullshit premise because those rioters never represented mainstream sentiment on the left.
Who are the people that allegedly did this and what are their affiliations? Who of any prominence endorses them? You keep bringing this nonsense up as if it has any kind of relevance or traction outside the right wing lying liars’ echo chambers.
One side is trying to rob the rights of a group of people
This is a fact.
the other side is burning down their own cities claiming to be saving the lives of a marginalized group
This is conjecture.
One side is advocating for guns to stay legal and accessible while children are mass murdered
This is a fact and a mainstream position of one side.
the other side has members dressing up in all black and assaulting people in their peaceful protests
This is a fantasy. And even were it true it’s not a mainstream position.
One side is denying climate change as the world literally crumbles in front of us
This is a fact.
the other is advocating for the abolition of all law enforcement.
This is a non sequitur, and also false beyond fringes.
Actually, it’s not “conjecture”, it’s a full-on lie
the other is advocating for the abolition of all law enforcement.
This is a non sequitur, and also false beyond fringes.
To be fair, this last one was a slogan explicitly used, at a level where it could be reasonably seen as mainstream depending on how much time you spent on the wrong websites.
Kinda interesting, really— In-group signalling incentives greatly harmed the chances for successful out-group messaging.
And sad, maybe— Could have possibly gotten a good thing going at that point— But I guess “Decrease funding to violent law enforcement in order to reallocate more resources to preventative and constructive community services” just doesn’t have the right ring to it in today’s media environment.
As it was, it was big enough to get serious attention from several major cities, while also being self-defeating enough to thus far have had apparently basically no lasting positive impact whatsoever yet.
You linked an article about cutting funding. I responded to a ridiculous comment about the abolition of all law enforcement.
Maybe it’s just me, but my default interpretation when I hear about something being “defunded” is more or less synonymous with complete elimination.
Either way, it doesn’t really matter, since everything else that comment was saying was indeed just bunk, and even this funding thing was indeed still at most a relatively fringe messaging failure.
Burning down their cities? Where the fuck is that happening? I’m so sick of that blatant lie. You aren’t a centrist, you’re a liar, and that’s why people hate you.
Yep. They just told on themselves.
And I bet they have no idea why.
burning down cities
Never happened. This is an oft-debunked right wing echochamber strawman and as such, anyone who invokes it is either right wing, an impressionable useful idiot or, most likely, both.
Not even going to adress the rest of your strawmen, false equivalences and irrational conclusions since you’re barely worth the time and effort I’ve already wasted on your rank stupidity.
My brother in Christ Antifa throwing molotovs on video recording is not an echochamber strawman [insert another logical fallacy to sound cool]. Hell they made a lot of noise about Target getting hit too but yeah let’s just sweep those pictures under the rug too, didn’t happen. All those locally owned businesses? Nah, not looted, you said so. An elderly woman beaten with planks of wood for asking rioters not to break her windows? Definitely didn’t happen, just a strawman.
You’re a fucking pseudo intellectual. Don’t reply if you’re going to just jerk yourself off with nothing comments.
I’m not your brother in religious delusions.
I’m pointing out your logical fallacy not to sound cool, but in order to warn anyone else who might be susceptible to being tricked that you’re employing rhetorical trickery to make an invalid claim sound plausible by making a valid counterclaim sound ridiculous.
Just stop it with the faux-edgy centrist histrionic hyperbole already. You’re not fooling anyone.
You’re a fucking pseudo intellectual. Don’t reply if you’re going to just jerk yourself off with nothing comments.
Hey look, I found a picture of you!
Which city was burned down? How many millions died?
Hell yeah, deaths don’t matter till we hit at least a million. Cities burning don’t count till the whole thing falls. That’s some awesome standards you’ve got.
So no city burned down despite you literally saying so?
The other thing here is that these people make this implicit leap to assuming it’s somehow some liberals/leftists that did any of the acts of vandalism. Who is endorsing any of that on the left? I mean, someone of actual prominence and viewed with reverence by people on the left?
Nah just hoped you had a better memory than a goldfish but here, I’ll dig up an article for you to read. Your echochamber must be real well built.
First of all, that’s paywalled.
Secondly, Minneapolis definitely did not burn down. Or if they did, they rebuilt very quickly.
“That’s paywalled” - The picture of them reducing a building to ash isn’t. “Or if they did, they rebuilt very quickly” - Here I’ll help you CARRY THOSE GOALPOSTS. Where we putting them down at this time? (That’s how that term is used by the way.) I’m bored of this same song on repeat though, have a good day, please have some independent thoughts.
What cities burned? Who burned them? How do you know they are not off-duty cops and/or agent provocateurs that are sympathetic to fascists?
Anime pfp and unironic Marcus Aurelius quote. I can practically see your katana and fedora collection from here.
Please just go back to reddit. We don’t want or need people like you here.
“Burning down their own cities claiming to be saving the lives of a marginalized group”. Yes, looting happens, things are broken. Things. Property. Because at the end of the day, what our system listens to is the interests of business owners, and they listen to lost money. Stonewall was a riot, and whether or not you think that it’s better to go through bureaucracy to stop the oppression of minorities or not, clearly riots are effective. These cities aren’t being destroyed, and they get repaired, and sure that sucks for the business owners that have to deal with that… but human lives matter more.
I think the people that you are thinking of, who are dressing up and assaulting peaceful protests are the proud boys. Who are fascists. Most leftists protesters are not attacking people, they are defending themselves. Because cops happily resort to violence first and foremost.
“advocating for the abolition of all law enforcement officers.”
Strict punishment and law enforcement doesn’t work. In the US we have incredibly high rates of recidivism, and more prisoners than pretty much any other country. Cops solve very few crimes, and are there to protect property rather than people. That’s why when protests happen, they go out in armored vehicles and use tear gas to protect businesses, but they would never do that you protect you or your home. Eliminating modern cops doesn’t mean that you do nothing to enforce laws and protect your communities, it has to do with how that effort is organized. The profit based power-trip cops we have exist because the system is broken.
The problem with centrism, in general, is that ignorance of nuance. You aren’t right just because you picked a point in the middle. One side is fascists, and the other just wants to live.“The problem with centrism, in general, is that ignorance of nuance.” I love how you preceded this comment illustrating how black and white everything is and after say “one side is fascists and the other isn’t” You do realize nuance would be cascading gray, yes? That it means the right side would also have some level of nuance, yes? Both sides LOVE to jerk themselves off as intellectual juggernauts then contradict themselves because they’re not actually the intellectuals they claim to be, they’re regurgitating what they heard smarter people argue on their behalf. “strict punishment and law enforcement doesn’t work” holy fuck point to a single country, providence, or territory in the world that can operate without law enforcement. You are unironically advocating for anarchy and can’t see how fucking retarded the notion of that is. “it sure sucks business owners have to deal with that but human lives are more important.” So to save lives you destroy other people’s livelihoods? Did it work? Are we done now or are those people out tens of thousands of dollars? Their entire lifes work destroyed because you wanted some fucking attention and did fuck all with it. No, that’s such a shit take that your empty fucking virtue will not save you from.
They dress up in white hoods, you dress up in black beanies. You’re two sides of the same god awful coin and instead of pursuing a change that would disrupt two shit choices, you fully embrace one and denigrate critics. You are just barely less of the monster you claim the right is and you’re so devoid of the nuance you believe to be aware of that you refuse to step back and criticize your own failures. Refuse to improve so that detractors have less to call you out on.
The world is not black and white, of course. But if we’re talking about the modern day Republican party and it’s voters, it’s very clear what’s going on. I’m no intellectual, and neither are you, so let’s keep this respectful. I’ll repeat that eliminating our police force doesn’t mean not enforcing laws, but rather is rooted in how that effort is organized. Most crime is a direct result of poverty, if you want to effectively decrease crime, you need to improve people’s standards of living. Things like affordable housing projects, raising minimum wages, more paid vacation, better public transportation, cancelling student debt, decriminalization of drug possession and use, etc.
Our police force doesn’t want to decrease crime because our prisons are for-profit and they make more of they book more prisoners.
You can point fingers at me if you want. I guess? I haven’t participated in looting or rioting. My point was that it’s effective regardless of whether you support it.
Also, humanity enforced laws for a long time before our police system was designed.
Perhaps you’d prefer we reduce reduce the scale of police duties so we can have dedicated public safety responders for different situations? We can fund it by proportionally using money that police no longer need.
I’d prefer to have elected oversight committees that dictate exactly where every dollar of the police budget goes so we stop buying Armored Personal Carriers from military surplus and put it into fucking training so people don’t confuse their tasers with their sidearms. I’d like a perfect police force that doesn’t fuck up and panic leading to people dying unnecessarily, but that doesn’t happen if they have less money for proper training. It doesn’t happen so long as they’re only accountable to themselves.
I’m down to make the police better, to structure the systems in a better way. I’m not down to abolish them and leave a gaping hole where a critical pillar of society should be.
Nobody who is worth listening to ever advocated for abolishing all police and not replacing them with something else. Pretty much everyone agrees that some form of law enforcement is necessary. There are differences in what that law enforcement looks like, but I feel like everyone other than cops can see that police culture and the way that they abuse their power and protect each other is a problem.
The problem with how you look at things is that you’re seeing only the most extreme positions of each group and assuming that each “side” holds those views.
Name one city that was “burned down”.
One side wants basic human rights. The other side wants you to die. We are not the same.
You either support the hate, vitriol and murder against trans people, or you don’t. There is no middle ground.
The idea that demanding trans people be treated with the dignity and respect other classes of people expect as being “aggressive” is just a pathetic way to try to deflect from their desire to support the side they know they cannot morally defend. It allows them to pretend “both sides” are at fault in order to deflect for the hate they functionally support. Only a stark moron could look at the current events relative to the treatment of trans people and think they are somehow demanding greater rights than the rest of us have.
Just another flavor of the “both sides” bullshit that has permeated politics; but only one side has abandoned democracy and staged an insurrection while collectively acting like the victims in the aftermath.
If you are a “centrist” and this seems like an appealing position to support, maybe you should take a long, long look in the mirror.
Is this directed at me? Because I’m mocking the “centrist” view with this meme.
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TIL wanting basic human rights is “aggressive”. Ridiculously weak attempt at rage baiting.
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I always considered myself a centrist… but it was more about how I definitely believe the government should be involved in certain things/industries (prisons, healthcare, comprehensive social programs that boost up the worst-off in our society so they can actually have opportunities, etc) and not in other things (a “free market” that exists under strong, fair, and reasonable regulations that promote competition, discourage monopolization, and provide consumer and environmental protections, individual liberties like identity and community and sexual orientation, how people raise their kids (within reason, of course), etc)…
I don’t know what the fuck these people actually are. Right-leaning useful idiots who are too lazy to have an actual opinion so they just both-sides everything and get to feel smug about it. It’s easier than reading, I guess?
It sure feels like it comes from a position of privilege where their lives are fine under the status quo so anyone else’s struggle is not their problem.
Centrism being villified in America is really weird, as that is explicitly championing extremism over moderation.
Leaping so hard onto one side that you cannot tolerate anyone’s toe out of line, the party line must be upheld at all costs, is exactly the same kind of extremist shit we go after the right for. Just be better. It’s easy to get caught up into the “us vs them”, “black vs white”, “red vs blue” thing, but it’s really not that simple.
The example above is a strawman. I can do it too. One side says “kill all minorities”, and the other side says “all minorities should become the new upper class of society.” Neither side is actually pushing for either of those things, and we’ve turned real issues into disconnected make believe.
You’re simplifying the problem to the point where you don’t even have to think about it or consider a single argument. It’s much easier if you make up some extremist shit and then say anything and everything is justified in opposition of that extreme.
They put an incredible amount of effort into creating excuses for not having to take a stance, much more than people who are actually taking stances put into explaining their stances.
It’s quite amazing, really came out of the woodwork and completely missed the point of the meme
Is this rant of yours supposed to convince centrists to transit to extreme wings of spectrum?
In what way is the “left” in the posted meme an extreme?
In case of this meme - in the way of aggressiveness.
“The allies were too aggressive against the Nazis it really put me off”
This is what all these bullshit arguments sound like to me.
You have one side wanting to violate the humans rights and privacy of a marginalized group. The other side either wants to help this group or at bare minimum ignore them and let them live peacefully. One of these is aggressive. The other is just basic fucking decency.
The allies were too aggressive against the Nazis it really put me off"
Here we are again with the Godwin law :)
Not really. We’re talking about a marginalized group having their rights violated. It’s not my fault the most famous modern example of this that happened less than a century ago is Nazi Germany.
But conservatives aren’t “Nazi Germany” and trans aren’t Jews in Dachau.
That comparison of yours was bad taste, to say the least.
The fact that you think it’s centrism or extremism and nothing in between shows how little you should be speaking and how much you should be listening.
The American left is globally considered to be on the right, so your “extreme wing” argument is comparing the far right to the middle right.
The fallacy you make here is believing the wings are equidistant from truth.
It’s not their responsibility to educate centrists.
Such a toxic approach isn’t productive. Don’t make an enemy from one, who are not. Inform them, if you want a support. And not in an aggressive way.
“Hey I want the right to exist peacefully”
“Ehhhhh idk I need more information on why you think you deserve that”
😐
This seems to suggest that the default position on rights is to deny them unless the marginalized group makes a convincing enough case for acceptance, politely. This, incidentally, is what put me off the term “acceptance” as a positive thing. As someone whose right to exist isn’t questioned daily, it shouldn’t be my right to decide whom to accept or “tolerate” (ew) but my moral duty to celebrate, welcome, and build up. The notion of a group being able to sit undisturbed while marginalized people make arguments for their rights, but never in a way that offend or discomfort me, is … bad.
I agree in theory, but in real life, there are some pretty heinous marginalized groups out there. I don’t think LGBT should be counted as some of them, but everyone agrees that there are SOME groups that absolutely should have to prove that they deserve certain rights before those rights can be extended. That’s what laws are.
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The person who made this comic is dumber than the strawman they’re portraying here.
basically one side is nazis and the other is against Nazis. if you’re ok with nazi’s, you’re a fucking idiot Nazi. Must suck.
“Nice people made the best Nazis”. That line always goes through my head…
https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2016/11/17/the-post-election-case-for-speaking-out-naomi-shulman
Nice people made the best Nazis.
Or so I have been told. My mother was born in Munich in 1934, and spent her childhood in Nazi Germany surrounded by nice people who refused to make waves. When things got ugly, the people my mother lived alongside chose not to focus on “politics,” instead busying themselves with happier things. They were lovely, kind people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away.
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Let me put it this way… My take on the whole matter is this: we’re all human. As humans, we should all have the same opportunities for happiness and misery as everyone else. The rights to exist, vote, an education, get married to whomever we love and later resent and divorce, then miss and have a few regrettable late night drunken confessions to an answering machine.
No matter what color you are, what hardware you have in your pants, who you find attractive, or what your pronouns are, you should have the rights and ability to do the same things everyone else can.
I believe in human rights… As in, the same for all humans. When we no longer have the need to differentiate by some adjective, like trans rights or gay marriage or whatever, and it’s just human rights and marriage, regardless of the individuals involved, then maybe we won’t be a piece of shit society. Anyone railing against the rights of other humans based on some quirk of their personality (and bluntly, the idiosyncrasies of your gender and identity are minor compared to all the shit that’s the same between you and other humans), is simply discrimination. We are all more alike than different.
So let’s not be assholes to eachother. Okay?
You sound like YOU’RE the problem here, if folks thought like you how would the rich divide us? Plus shit would be all nice and that sounds rather nich actually but still…HATE.
In all seriousness I wish more people had your point of view, it takes too much energy and time to worry shit that doesn’t affect us. I’ll never understand why people just can’t be cool and mind their business.
Also a silly side note I never liked bud light but I’ll order in bars just to watch people’s opinion of me change… to amuse myself…so somehow Anheuser Busch managed to get me to drink piss.
You had me in the first half, I’m not going to lie.
As some have said, over and over: if you don’t like gay marriage, don’t get gay married.
Related, I too, troll people in very much the same way. I don’t think I’m going to stoop to buying that piss just to amuse myself though.
Thanks for playing along… honestly your point of view was the most reasonable and well thought out on here, I had to be a smuck just a bit for funsies. I’ll never understand why folks hate when we have much more important shit going on in life.
My brother did get gay married and his husband is the best member of the family…
What a terrible take
Yeah, I second this. You are a fucking shit bag human being if you thinking protesting for transrights without actively killing people is analogous with the KKK fucking lynching people for being black.
Fuck every Lemmy user thinks this. There is no being nice to someone who has this logic of thinking. There are no fucking analogies here and you are a downright fucking idiot with shit for brains if you think this and you think anyone here deserves to treat you any different than a KKK member.
You aren’t some alt normal person who is, “I like to stay in the middle because I am not extremist.” You are quite literally just saying, “killing people is comparable to people protesting for human rights.” Get the fuck out of here you pieces of shit.
Were you replying to a comment or to the OP?
I would imagine they’re talking about the post shown in the picture
But because I don’t know what Lemmy does with deleted parent comments in a thread and I wonder if they might have replied to now deleted comment, I find it in good manners to ask rather than to assume.
I mean, this whole comment section is filled with horrible takes but i was talking about the post in this comment
Anytime someone starts with “it’s just a fact” you can be pretty darn sure that whatever is coming isn’t just a fact.
“I’m not racist, but” followed 100% of the time by something racist.
I’m not a racist but I’m just saying the chorizo quesadilla I had yesterday was delicious.
Now it’s only 99.99999999% of the time
I’m not a racist, but, disc golf is fun!
I’m no racist but Hitler’s art was mediocre at best.
It’s just a fact that vaccines don’t cause cancer.
It’s just a fact that you are a smart independent thinker 😉
Thanks :), but in fact I’m not a independent thinker, I just follow what the science consensus is :)
The left one is the normal one actually. I would be fucking aggressive too if my rights would be violated.
I’m not against you in principle, it’s just that I’m very selfish and afraid, and therefore against changing a world in which you’re oppressed.
