You must log in or register to comment.
Loki turned into a mare to get properly fucked by a stallion, get pregnant and deliver an 8 legged super horse (Sleipnir) that Odin proudly rode around… yeah, they are very fine with gender fluidity
I mean, Loki was ultimately a villain, so it’s more like they perfected the queer-coded villain archetype, but there’s also evidence both that Shieldmaidens were a thing and some Shieldbrethen were assigned-as-Shieldmaidens-at-birth. How accepted that would have really been we simply do not know, or how much norms changed by region and time. Or even whether they would have thought you were stupid for asking if ladies could fight in “men’s clothing,” aka, armor.
There is also quite a lot of difference between a Dane, a Kievan Rus, and a citizen of what was basically a republic in Iceland in 930 AD.
Pretending the Vikings/Norse/Whatever were some pinnacle of ancient tolerance is just as wrong as pretending they followed practices that map 1-to-1 on modern bigotry. They were an immensely patriarchal culture, whose economy was quite literally based on chattel slavery on a scale that would only be matched by American plantatioms, with a whole slew of what can only be called toxic masculinity, who only could ever look good in comparison to Roman and Abrahamic norms, but that’s the comparison Westerners will inevitably make in their favor because that is the standard they know.
Doesn’t Loki being a villain vary from myth to myth? In some he’s just mischievous, in others outright malicious. The Ragnarok myth has him leading the armies of the dead, but I’ve always wondered how modified the story is due to the influence of Christian monks…
Pretending the Vikings/Norse/Whatever were some pinnacle of ancient tolerance is just as wrong as pretending they followed practices that map 1-to-1 on modern bigotry…
I’m not pretending any of that… nor I am implying they are an example of morality about anything… All I am saying is that, what we now call “gender fluidity” or simply anything in the “LGBTQ+” spectrum does not seem to be, in and of itself, a “sin” or a morally reprehensible act in the Nordic mythology.
Also, Loki wasn’t really a villain… he was more the “anti hero” type… From all the Nordic mythology I have read (I just like it, I’m not a scholar) the attitude towards him always seemed to be “Damn it Loki, we could get along if you stop being an asshole for a day”… not “I shall vanquish Loki and end his evil ways”
Pretty sure Loki was the mother of Odin’s horse.
He also got Thor to dress as Freya to pretend to marry a giant king
I personally don’t see that is one of those trans Loki moments, because I’m cis, love joking, and identify with Loki in the tale.
If I were in that situation, I would 1000% find it hilarious to convince my best bro the only way to get their most prized possession back is to crossdress and trick a King.
And you are correct!
Classic Loki.
And the father of Fenrir and Jormungandr!
Viking: Can you fight?
Trans Viking: yeah!
Viking: cool, let’s go fuck some shit up!
Canonically accurate.
Edit: Huh, you’re going to have to open the image in a new tab to actually read the comic.
Vikings also fucked their friend’s wife when he died. Also were supporters of slavery and have abused their slaves. Am failing to see the point?
She’s probably taking on those hyper masculine white nationalists obsessed with their viking ancestors, not on vikings to be cool again.
Kind of weird post then, not to include the origin of the argument.
Twitter
Are there any supporters of slavery that haven’t abused their slaves? It seems to be part of the whole deal.
Close to 100% viking here, you’re welcome! I might enslave you though, but without prejudice.
I feel like you don’t know what a viking is.
How can I not? I am one!
BTW viking society seemingly didnt only kill and plunder ;-)
Vikings were a very particular group of Scandinavians who, during parts of the year, went on their longboats and raided villages and stole stuff to bring home. For most of the year, they were farmers and fishermen. Having Scandinavian ancestry does not make you a viking, they literally don’t exist anymore.
I’m 100% Nordic by the wayWhat about this guy then, huh?
Techno Viking is a time traveller so he doesn’t count. Fun fact, Vikings used to have a rave after a successful raid
Nice try viking. By viking law you can only keep what you kill and a dead slave is worthless, therefore taking a corpse as a slave has no standing. You will just have to settle for the plunder and be on your way.
You forgot the most important Viking law:
They’d kidnap and enslave them just like everyone else; true egalitarians!
tbf that’s like talking about the US miliary, who do horrible things without most of the population being aware of it
Read more norse mythology for smart people at
https://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/the-aesir-gods-and-goddesses/odin/
He’s a war-god, but also a poetry-god, and he has prominent “effeminate” qualities that would have brought unspeakable shame to any historical Viking warrior.
cal tradition known as seidr, of which Odin and Freya are the foremost divine practitioners. In traditional Germanic society, for a man to engage in seidr was effectively to forsake the male gender role, which brought considerable scorn upon any male who chose to take up this path. As the sagas show, this didn’t stop some men from practicing seidr anyway. However, even Odin wasn’t exempt from such charges of “unmanliness,” and was taunted for adopting the feminine traits and tasks that form part of the backbone of seidr. Saxo, in the passage on Odin’s exile alluded to above, relates that “by his stage-tricks and his assumption of a woman’s work he had brought the foulest scandal on the name of the gods.”[16] Note also the reference to being “fertilized” in the verse quoted above – while this is certainly a metaphor, it’s a metaphor loaded with sexual implications that would have been immediately recognizable to any Viking Age or medieval reader or hearer of the poem. A fuller discussion of the relationship between Germanic shamanism and gender roles can be found here: https://norse-mythology.org/concepts/shamanism/
Long as that bussy tight
Wise words
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfas
Yeah this thread is full of idiots who care more about Marvel movies than about historical fact.
Norse society was hyper masculine and being called womanlike was just about the worst insult you could give to someone. Nobody “worshipped” Loki, he was the antagonist/occasionally the antihero of their stories, but the takeaway of the stories was always meant to be “Loki is not a role model”
Why do people care if a society of slavers and pillagers from 1200 years ago were progressive by modern standards? What an idiotic thing to be so confidently wrong about.
Scandiboos don’t care for historical facts. Somehow, Nordic slaver pirates seem to have the best PR team in history and they eat up every last bit.
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfas
Dude this is the internet, the burden of proof is on the person anyone says “Source?” to first.
In seriousness though, we’re shooting the shit here. The burden of proof is shared equally. Someone said something, they gave reasoning (a form of evidence) why they think that thing, and you just came and said “No you’re wrong.” The ball is firmly in your court to explain why.
Ooo - a true master on Viking history here!! Tell us all about how it really was and what values they had. What ethnicities they accepted and how they viewed homosexuality?
Accusing a man of being “ergi,” which is basically unmanly, was enough of an insult to be answered with blood. A specific instance of something that qualifies a man of being ergi is taking the passive role (bottom) in homosexual intercourse.
Author and Norse historian Neil Price describes “Viking” culture as being one of the most homophobic in history.
Yet being top was accepted and revered. I’d say they were somewhat bi-friendly, and I’ve yet to hear about how they viewed lesbians.
Both Loki and Odin takes the roles/duties of women several times, while not being cast out or referred to as ergi.
Cross dressing I think was harder to execute as the manly outfits were lavish already.
When the giant Thyrm stole Thor’s hammer and wanted to marry Freya, the other gods made Thor dress in drag and pretend to be the bride to get it back.
Thor literally doesn’t want to dress as a woman in this story EXPRESSLY because he fears being labeled ergi. He says this explicitly.
This is story is a comedy, and this portion of it is told as a joke at Thor’s expense, where Loki and Freya tease him about it.
I’m sure a whole lot of people where fine with it until the christofasciast colonisers and occupiers had their way
I’m pretty sure modern day viking descendants are ok with them.
Who cares what a bunch of savage pillagers would have wanted?
What I’m sure of is that the forefathers of modern civilization, the Romans, would have fucking loved trans folks.
No joke, didn’t Nero marry a trans woman?
More like forcibly feminized a young slave that resembled his late wife, whom he had beaten to death. I wouldn’t exactly hold him up as an ally.
Holy shit, that took a turn.
Most shit with Nero was pretty gnarly if I remember correctly, he was the person most scholars of that period agree the Antichrist in revelation is supposed to be, that in particular may have primarily been because he implemented taxes on religious organizations though… again it’s been a while since I studied either but I do remember Nero being fucked up even by the standards of Roman emperors
A lot of the trash talk about him was made up by Christian historians, I’m pretty sure the “beating his pregnant wife to death” is confirmed, or at the very least heavily debated, to be one of the made up bullshit. And yes, it’s generally believed that he is the “beast” from Revelation butt again that’s because of the early Christian hate. It’s probably because he accused the early Christian sect of causing the fire of Rome (which we’re still not sure they didn’t), and the whole “throwing them to lions” thing, and they fought back by spreading shit about him.
Marrying a castrated slave lover is legit though, and IINM I think Nero was the one dressed as the bride.
I mean, the Romans were just industrialized pillagers. Who cares what they would have thought.
Yeah! What have the romans ever done for us?!
They gave us roads.
Well yeah, obviously the roads. The roads go without saying, don’t they?
I’m 90% sure vikings would have been more than a little excited by the idea.
You’re just saying that because of Scandinavia’s track record on trans people
Actually modern day Scandinavia’s attitude towards trans people needs some work.
Our very own VikingHippie is fine with them, at least.
