What happens in November is up to Biden – it will not be the fault of the protest voter if Trump is elected. The questions remain: does the Democratic party fear Trump as much as we do? And does it value its voters enough to shift away from an approach to the onslaught in Gaza that a majority of Democratic voters are against?
I’m just tryna vote for the lesser, by far, of two evils. It’s a fucking binary system, you can stomp your feet all you want and still get a genocide and possibly much worse, or you can at least preserve hope for a better future.
Same but in the mean time I’m going to continue to donate and help push for progressives and those who keep fighting to get rid of the bullshit first past the post voting system and electoral college bullshit.
Hope for whom? A better future for whom? If personal selfishness outweighs the value of humanity, then we’ve already lost, and the outcome of the election is irrelevant.
It’s reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally simple:
Voting Biden in gives us time to take all this energy we’re mustering up and using it to promote broader, more significant changes. We don’t stop at the election and instead use the next four years to push toward a better tomorrow.
Too many people are stopping at Trump v. Biden. Too many more are stopping at Them v “The System”.
Change takes time. When you vote for Biden, you vote to reset the clock, and then it’s time for all of us to get to work.
Can you explain how you expect to push for a better tomorrow after Biden is re-elected?
The reason I am reluctant to vote for Biden is that he is supporting genocide. If Biden continues to give away large quantities of child-exploding bombs, and he is still rewarded with reelection, then what leverage will the anti-genocide movement have left?
It seems like if Biden can ignore the anti-genocide movement and still win, then we can expect Biden to keep ignoring for 4 more years.
Tell me: What do you expect Trump to do?
I expect Trump to do horrible things. I expect Trump to be worse than Biden.
What does that have to do with my questions?
It has everything to do with your question. Biden has already proven he is willing to roll over on many issues. Biden has gotten a lot done these last four years, far more than most of us expected. Meanwhile, and I am NOT downplaying the severity of the genocide, people like you are using that in exactly the same way you accuse people like me of using Trump. Thing is your reluctance to help Biden get into office, and acknowledgement of the likely atrocities Trump would attempt, does you no favors. You can’t see past your own anger to the bigger picture, and it’s a damn shame. Because where Biden buys us time to continue coming together and push for change, Trump will attempt to lock us, and the very many minorities, LGPTQ+ communities, and any person not white and certainly anyone who stands against him, possibly and quite literally behind bars. He is so damned bad that the ENTIRE WORLD was pushing back against his Presidency and are terrified of him winning again. Except Russia.
Either we step the fuck up and stop being bitches and work together for a change over the next few years, or all this shit, every single part of it, will occur again in 2028. Including, as happens nearly every god damn fucking time, a serious situation that splits our attention and our support while the Right looks on and smirks. Every. Time. And we keep falling for it because we care.
I’m not angry, I was asking an honest question that no one has answered yet: how?
You say you take the genocide seriously, and you say electing Biden is buying us time to push for change, so answer my question then:
How will we effectively push the Biden administration to change Gaza policy after he is re-elected?
Because that is literally the entire campaign for the DNC: “but what about Trump!”.
They love Trump because he’s the ultimate boogeyman to strong-arm voters to fall into line.
I expect Trump to continue being a boogeyman so people like you can keep saying this instead of working for any real change that makes people’s lives better. ‘Just push Biden left’ turned into ‘Well you have no other choice’ real quick.
Lesser of two evils works when we’re talking about blocking universal healthcare or police reform. When you use that bullshit to justify pulling the lever for genocide, you just don’t care that much about genocide.
And when you use that justification to enable someone who’s going to increase support of that genocide what does that make you? Sure sounds like you’re supporting more genocide than a Biden voter is.
It’s like people forgot how many Americans died during the height of the pandemic because T**** is a fucking idiot.
Anyone who is even remotely near the crosshairs of the Christofascists needs to pull their head out of their ass and vote Democrat this election.
The Republicunts don’t care if you think “both sides are bad” if you’re LGBTQ+, atheist, non-Christian, think abortion should be freely available, etc.
Ideals and principles don’t stop bullets or beatings.
Hey, how about you just work with us this time and then here in four years we will pretend to care about what you wanna do.
That seems to be the Democrat playbook anymore
Run for something locally.
Do something about it.
Which is exactly why you shouldn’t be just tuning in every 4 years. Local elections, primaries, etc. People only pay attention every 4 years. That’s part of the reason why we’re here.
I know the names, office locations, and names of the assistants of my congressional representatives, do you?
Sounds like you’re perfectly capable of understanding how participation is beneficial. Maybe you could advocate more people participate and the resulting benefits vs cynical bullshit designed to turn people off entirely?
Tried that.
Remember, behind every cynic is a crushed optimist
Look at those goalposts fly!
Oh suck rocks. There’s one party that does try to pass legislation that helps people, that is better for the environment, better allocations of spending priorities, and generally aren’t fucking cartoon villains.
And it ain’t the Republicans.
Being mad that things weren’t done the way we Think They Should Be™ and dismissing the realization that geopolitics is an extremely complex system is childish. Throwing temper tantrums, threatening to take your toys and go home because you didn’t get your way is childish.
There are many factions to appease in the US electorate, particularly on the left. And while I personally feel like Israel should have been cut off decades ago which may have saved hundreds of thousands of lives, there are a lot more who feel differently. Am I going to hold that against the group that aligns with the majority of my aspirations even if they are stymied by christofacists at every turn? FUCK NO.
If there are so many of them compared to us, then why are you worried?
My guy, do you understand how margins work?!
My guy, do you not understand that human lives are more important than anything else he can do?
He disregards that, and I’m ok with not being on team “Okay with killing children to get the other things we want.”
That is your team
You’re not wrong, but it beats the GOP’s playbook, and it’ll buy us some time to do the actual work of building a viable third party that might have a chance after 20 years of constant support from local elections on up.
Not voting sends no message other than you’re fine with how things are so you can’t be bothered. Threatening a comfy 2-party system with a solid alternative will make them sweat.
Glad to see the goldfish memory of voters who missed what happened the last 4 times this has happened. I’m sure it’ll fix it this time and isn’t just a recurring right-wing strategy to alienate voters on the left with propaganda.
They can’t remember further back than the last media cycle, and the can’t think forward further than a week.
I guarantee at least some, likely all of these people were fucking pissed about the death of Roe. They learned nothing. Absolutely nothing.
You know what’s worse than denial of the right to choose? Genocide. That’s what we got for electing Joe Biden last time. Fool me once, etc, etc.
… completely ignoring the only other option was “even more genocide than that”. We didn’t get genocide because we elected Joe Biden. We got genocide because right wingers in Israel want to conduct a genocide. Removing Biden from the equation and replacing him with Trump does not improve the situation. Doing that would be the actual foolish move.
We got genocide because Biden refuses to hold Israel accountable for its actions like even Ronald Reagan did. Don’t pretend that he doesn’t have blood on his hands.
So why not just say “I will not run for reelection, I have too much controversy, let’s run someone else.”?
Instead they are just barreling on with this motherfucker.
Edit: To to too.
Because the incumbency advantage is incredibly powerful, Biden has beaten Trump before, and no other viable Democrats have indicated they want to run this election. I too would prefer someone else but it’s not like Biden there aren’t solid strategic reasons to run him again.
If Biden steps down then the dnc won’t be holding everyone else from stepping up.
Or maybe he could just STOP SENDING BOMBS and we would have much less of an issue.
If it’s too much trouble to get enough Americans to decide that we should stop sending bombs to kill kids then we deserve what we get
Ah… the: “I’ve chosen this hill for everyone to die on” gambit.
Thinking like a child. May age bring you wisdom and peace.
You have the intellect of a 14 year old.
it will not be the fault of the protest voter if Trump is elected. The questions remain: does the Democratic party fear Trump as much as we do?
If you fear him, why would you not assist in preventing his rise?
If you give a shit about Palestine, why would you not support the better candidate for them? You think Trump will do anything to make this situation better?
The logical fallacy at play here is so glaring I can’t believe these journalists are willing to put their name to it.
I mean… If your goal is to end a genocide and you help get a guy who said “finish the job” elected, yeah, it is your fault.
Let us not pretend otherwise.
Are you talking about the time Trump said the genocide is a bad look? Trump might not have a moral conscience, but at least he is has a political self-preservation instinct. Biden is blind-walking over a cliff in his genocidal determination.
you are either a bot account or really stupid lol
As evidence that much of the movement is an explicit AstroTurf for the Trump campaign, I present article 1: this statement from a man named Juicy.
Uncommitted votes don’t help Trump. You know this, you’re just too much of a pussy to say you wanna murder more Palestinians
Wow, that is an incredibly unhinged thing to say to somebody.
I think if you are taking it on yourself to be a steward of the Palestinian people, you have to act respectable.
You get to talk about respectability when you stop supporting genocide. If you don’t support genocide, why oppose voting uncommitted?
Let me know when your behavior has helped a single Palestinian person.
Honest question, has speaking respectfully and calmly helped a single Palestinian person? It’s not like the US was listening until the uncommitted votes and the college protests.
Which specific real world protestors are acting as unhinged as this person was? From what I have seen, this behavior is exclusively among online communists, not actual pro-palestine protestors.
Which specific real world protests were speaking calm and respectfully instead of speaking emotionally and attention getting?
Why oppose voting uncommitted other than because you support genocide? Legit give me one reason in the entire world to oppose voting uncommitted other than because you want to send the message to Biden that Palestinian genocide doesn’t matter/is good
Why behave this way towards other people unless you support genocide?
You aren’t doing a damn thing to help Palestinians, you are just treating random people terribly and feeling good about yourself because of it.
I
Hey look, it’s a liberal genocide supporter deflecting rather than owning their shit views!
Why bother being quiet about it? Why not say it? Or deny it if it’s not the case? Because you know that everyone else will know you’re a piece of shit if you’re too honest about it. Fuck off zionist, know that you’re not at all sly about how much you love dead Palestinian children
Cool, you do support genocide. Have a shit life asshole💖
Free palestine 🇵🇸
You need psychiatry.
You have literally painted yourself into a self-destructive corner with your moronic strawman.
What other reason is there to not vote uncommitted? These are democratic primaries, trump gets nothing here. Give me one good reason not to take this free opportunity to let biden know genocide isn’t ok
First past the post voting, two party system means that mathematically, you are placing half a vote on Biden and half a vote on Trump by abstaining democracy doesn’t exist in the United States. Sorry you had to learn it this way. It’s also on its way out over here in Canada, don’t worry we’re catching up :(
Alternatively you could vote for whoever has the best platform LOCALLY in YOUR country, whoever that may be, and send angry letters letting them know that while you support some of their policies, you are uncomfortable with the president’s lack of support for a cause you consider just.
If you would otherwise vote for donald; go ahead and do the protest vote.
yeah thats what we are saying.
and if both options mean genocide (or one is only less bad about it, whatever that means) them its time to reconsider if you truly live in a democracy
US democracy is weak. With first past the post voting, a two party system is inevitable. But not voting Biden because he is “genocidal” is the dumbest excuse ever.
Fight to change the voting system, but don’t fight it by getting a literal fascist elected. Because that’s what you are responsible for if you don’t vote.
What’s dumb is putting “genocidal” in scare quotes and acting like genocide is not actually that big of a deal. I won’t vote for Biden or Trump because I value my vote too much to give it to an evil scumbag, red or blue. I’ll vote for Jill Stein or Cornel West.
So Trump it is then. Good look with your genocide then.
You do realize genocide is a fait accompli.
I’m voting for Biden. Harm reduction as the article said. But, I have a much better understanding of why people would protest vote after reading the article.
And if Trump wins 2024, we can’t put all of the blame on protest voters, when Democrats aren’t listening to their base.
What happens in November is up to Biden – it will not be the fault of the protest voter if Trump is elected.
If Trump is elected, I will blame both Biden AND the protest voter.
But not the people who chose someone supporting genocidal actions instead of the people demanding better.
It’s this simple, if all of y’all who spend your time trying to convince those of us who don’t want to support sending Israel all the weaponry they want, while defending them against the consequences of their own actions, while using our money to do so, and having Israel use $13b a year of our money to do so, would instead work with us, we could actually make a change:
And if at the end of the day that causes us to lose, it means that America is full of people who support this and they should get their way.
At least we find out where we really stand.
You guys spend all day trying to drag us to the side of “ Okay with sending bombs to kill more children.”, maybe you could drag people to the side of “Let’s not send more bombs to kill kids:”
I know which side I am staying on, and if we get outvoted, such is democracy.
People demanding better is not a side, and thus cannot win. The let’s not bomb kids side has zero power. Your choice is between bombing kids and bombing more kids. Enabling the bombing more kids side means your fake morals outweigh the sloppy real-world political situation that actually exists.
Your house is on fire. You are standing equidistant from a full petrol can and a bucket of water, and you’re deciding not to act because neither is the perfect solution.
In the short term, your position is justifiable. But in the long term, it’s anti-democratic. The reasoning you’ve provided here has been used for many elections in the past and can be used forever into the future. But if we’re forced to choose between two bad parties, and there’s never a chance of a third party accomplishing anything good, then nobody will ever represent us.
And if we’re stuck in a non-democracy forever, then it makes sense for people to pursue other more radical solutions. Is that what you want? It’s the natural implication of your message.
Or work with us to pick a different candidate.
Make clear we won’t stand for him and that their only option is to run a new candidate.
As long as you keep giving them what they want, they won’t change
Name one candidate with the name recognition to win who has also expressed an interest in running in 2024.
Ah, there’s the rub isn’t it, they wont run another candidate because everyone is supposed to just fall I. Line.
Run Whitmer, she did great things in WI
This is the best summary I could come up with:
With this reality looming, many Democratic party loyalists are panicked about the “leave it blank” movement, in which hundreds of thousands of voters have marked “uncommitted” on their primary ballots to protest against US support of Israel’s war on Gaza.
The protest vote is a moral and strategic position that challenges the establishment, delegitimizes the two-party system, and invalidates the assumption that the party line is the voter’s only consideration.
Last month, in primaries in Michigan, Hawaii, Minnesota and Washington, more than 200,000 voters cast “uncommitted” anti-war protest votes, demanding that Biden call for a ceasefire to the horrifying, US-financed genocide in Gaza and an end to Israeli occupation.
In 2008, for instance, Barack Obama was denied a line on the ballot in the Michigan primaries, making Hillary Clinton the only option for Democratic voters.
That margin signaled trouble for the Clinton establishment, and the fact that a majority of those uncommitted votes were cast by Black and young people suggested a potential upset that would soon materialize: Obama went on to win the primaries and delegate counts that would make him the party’s candidate.
As we scroll social media through endless images of death, starvation, grief and the devastation of critical institutions like hospitals and schools, Americans are recognizing we must do more for Palestine.
The original article contains 800 words, the summary contains 216 words. Saved 73%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
They are delusional and claiming it’s someone else’s fault if Trump is elected is the pinnacle of idiocy.
You’re talking to Biden supporters, right? Right?
You know they aren’t. They don’t see the irony, and they certainly don’t feel any personal responsibility.
You’re absolutely right.
Anyone who is more willing to work with someone who is ok with supporting the people who killed 10’s of thousands of innocent people, rather than someone who isn’t is a complete fucking moron and deserves whatever we get if trump gets elected.
No it’s going to be their fault. If we lose Social Security, Medicare, public schooling, basically every social safety net, any regulatory power the government has, and a right to free and fair elections then that will absolutely be on them. They’ve said that those things don’t matter to them in this scenario. If you’re for the destruction of all that then fuck you. It’s pretty simple.
Anyone against voting uncommitted supports genocide, plain and simple. There’s no other explanation, Biden doesn’t even lose anything from those votes, it just let’s him know that his base is pissed about him supporting genocide. Vote uncommitted or for a less zionist candidate, if you don’t or you’re against this then your position on Gaza is clear. What other reason would there be to oppose that?
