Who even needs investigative journalists with hidden cameras when there’s Israeli state television

    • zooi@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 months ago

      Do you have the slightest idea what the fuck you’re even comparing this to

      • Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        7 months ago

        That sort of comment is to be expected on Lemmy. A lot of very ignorant people here. Obviously the Holocaust wasn’t as well taught in Australia as it was in the Netherlands.

        • zooi@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          I love Lemmy but I feel like most people on here are absolute deranged, even compared to Reddit.

          • Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            7 months ago

            No Reddit is just as bad. This is a problem with people substituting ideology for intelligence. People will believe anything if they like the people telling them to. The truth of the matter is that no-one who is not involved in the conflict actually knows about what’s actually going on there. The IDF obviously have an incentive to cover up war crimes, but at the same time Hamas (a group internationally recognized as a terorist organization) is the government in the Gaza Strip and all the statistics about civilian casualties are cited as coming from "the government of Palestine.

            So again talking about the nazi Party and Israel in the same breath on the basis of a single translated image is fucking stupid.

        • masquenox@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          It must be so sad to see decades of fascist propaganda go to shit right before your very eyes, hasbara.

          Sad for you, that is.

            • المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              7 months ago

              Imagine yourself in the place of one of these men. How would you feel? Would that be acceptable to you? Would that be acceptable to your parents? Would it be acceptable to your spouse to not know where you are being held or why? Would it be acceptable for you as a lawyer to get no legal representation because a colonizer decided you are going to be tortured and humiliated for being X ethnicity?

              • Yellow cheese and bread would be fine with me if I was in prison as an enemy combatant and suspected terrorist.

                Such detention is usually indefinite, or at least usually lasts until whatever conflict ends, and POWs usually do not have a right to counsel.

                Stress positions are torture and that’s not a subject I know much about from an international law standpoint. If it’s not illegal it should be.

                But here you are once again without enough information to form a strong opinion, getting emotional, and reacting as if you have a real good idea of what’s happening in this video, which you do not. Are they stress positions that the inmates are forced to maintain for hours at a time, or were they told to get on the ground with their heads down and legs crossed so the cell could be opened safely for whoever that is touring the facility?

                The video and audio are cut up and spliced. You have no idea what the speaker is talking about when he says “this is how it should be after October 7.” Does he mean they should be in prison? Does he mean they should not be moving or talking? Does he mean they should be eating only white bread and yellow cheese? Does he mean they should be in stress positions being tortured? Who knows? Not me, not you. And this is how we got here: people reacting to the worst half of a story and automatically assuming the worst possible explanation. That’s just not how I operate; I can see that I do not have enough information to have a strong opinion about this video or photos, so I don’t have one.

                • Maggoty@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  7 months ago

                  Jesus. Even the US gives “enemy combatants” MREs. They are done and out of the fight. There’s no reason to mistreat them at that point. It’s just cruelty for the sake of it and no it’s not legal.

                  I had to guard detainees before they were taken to the rear, and after searching them they keep their clothes and get an MRE and a bottle of water. You just sit there in silence then. Nothing else is required. The fact that they’re in an armed camp handcuffed and hooded is enough to keep them quiescent. And once they’re in a prison there’s certainly no reason to treat them worse than we did in the field.

                  • If you’ve got them to spare, sure. I suppose you are right. Bread and cheese alone is no way to feed someone and has plenty of negative health consequence. I still don’t know enough about what the photo shows. How long does this diet persist for, is this a factor of intentional choice or is what they have extra in a warzone!

                    And to your second point, how about if the muckity mucks come for a tour and inspection, which is what this video seems to me to show, or if this is the intake holding or transport procedure?

                    I appreciate your perspective on this.

          • Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            7 months ago

            Ok, I mean you’re entitled to your opinion. I’m just saying that what happens during a war is only clear after it’s ended. And certainly isn’t clear to keyboard warriors sitting on their couch in the states or Europe. There’s a very famous photo of German POWs being shown footage of a death camp prior to their release. The expressions on their faces show very clearly that they had no idea what was happening.

            Similarly after this conflict is over, it is very possible that some extremely damming evidence will come to light. But until the war is over, you have to assume that most of what you see on both sides will be propaganda or taken out of context to promote a political ideology. And it’s a foolish comparison to make without more evidence than an out of context picture of an asshole prison guard.

            • Everyone else seems to see enough clearly damning evidence. But no problem, we can wait until the genocide is over and all Gazans are dead. 👍 That way you don’t have to believe us “keyboard warriors” sharing journalistic investigations and video footage of the mayhem.

              • Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                7 months ago

                Believe me I think Israel should pull out of Gaza and the settlers should leave the west bank. And I also believe that Palestine should be granted full independence according to 1967 borders. And I genuinely think that that would go a long way to establishing a climate of mutual hostility instead of straight up violence (I’m not naive enough to think that Israelis and Palestinians will ever be friends). Of course I shouldn’t be consulted, because I don’t live there and consulting Europeans about national borders in the middle east doesn’t seem to work. But I’m still not going to judge either side as being as bad as the Nazis, because I don’t have enough information to make that call.

                I am 100% against the IDF entering Gaza and executing civilians or Israelis settling in the west bank. I am also 100% against kidnapping civilians and digging up water pipes to make unguided rockets to be fired indiscriminately into residential areas.

                • المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  7 months ago

                  But I’m still not going to judge either side as being as bad as the Nazis, because I don’t have enough information to make that call.

                  Fair enough, even though that’s not at all how you came off. But I understand.

                  I, on the other hand, have enough evidence. 75 years of evidence.

      • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        The fact that Israel has intentionally put itself in the position to be compared to the horrors of Nazi Germany is the problem, bud.

        • UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          7 months ago

          I can’t understand how these people are so blinded by the facts right in front of their faces. I guess the hate is strong

          • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            7 months ago

            My guess is numbers. “Only” 28k palestinians vs. over 6 million jews. Also that they’re not being killed en masse after capture (although it really feels like Netanyahu would love to do that)

      • DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 months ago

        I guess you don’t equate it because the prisoners aren’t starved and abused enough? How much worse do you want it to get before you denounce it? It’s at least as bad as what the Americans were doing in the Abu Ghraib prison.

        • zooi@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          7 months ago

          I already denounce it. Obviously. I now understand that there is no room for nuance on this medium. The IDF is committing war crimes and I hope these atrocities won’t go unpunished. That is not mutually exclusive to thinking this is not even remotely close to the holocaust.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            7 months ago

            Multiple Children in Gaza have already been killed with starvation by israel. Palestinians locked in a concentration camp.

            WHO can’t even bring food to the north which is supposedly “fully controlled by israel” which tells you enough about intentional starvation and genocide.

            If you wanna do Genocide denial consider Reddit. We have indeed lost that “nuance” which you still posses.

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              7 months ago

              OP presents a great example of intelligence vs wisdom. Intelligence is knowing the Holocaust was technically worse. Wisdom is knowing that really doesn’t matter here. The nuance they’re talking about is pointless, especially when you consider that we didn’t know about the forced labor, heinous science experiments, and systematic killing until later on.

              The earlier stages of the Holocaust were very similar to what Israel is doing now. And what’s scary is that they’re accelerating too.

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 months ago

        Yes. They were comparing genocidal fascists to genocidal fascists.

        Will that do or will you need somebody to draw you a picture?