cross-posted from: https://ttrpg.network/post/4222671
Want a 3D printer in New York? Get ready for fingerprinting and a 15 day wait
Assembly Bill A8132 has been assigned a “Same As” bill in the Senate: S8586 [NYSenate.gov] [A8132 - 2023]
I don’t own a gun, I never have and I don’t plan to at any time in the future. But if these pass in the NYS Senate and Congress, it would be required to submit fingerprints for a background check then wait 15 days, before you could own any “COMPUTER OR COMPUTER-DRIVEN MACHINE OR DEVICE CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A THREE-DIMENSIONAL OBJECT FROM A DIGITAL MODEL.”
This isn’t even going to stop any crimes from happening, for pity sakes regular guns end up in criminal charges all the time, regardless of background check laws. How about some real change and effective measures, rather then virtue-signaling and theater illusion for a constituency?
This is the crap your average gun owners have to deal with all the time. And with similar results for crime prevention, which leads to more and more hoops as legislators try more of the same.
All because they genuinely don’t understand the subject matter or don’t care but want to appeal to people who also don’t know. Remember the “this is a ghost gun” speech?
Welcome to the shitshow, I’m truly sorry you’re here. I just want to enjoy 3D printed doodads and neat non-printed range toys in peace.
Not entirely a fair comparison. Gun owners might have to deal with some extra process in the acquisition of a tool explicitly capable of sending projectiles at lethal speeds. There is a good reason why some of those hoops might be tied to “crime prevention”. Because it is a tool remarkably well suited for it…
Adding such loops for 3D printers would make as much sense as for a bag of sand, because you could drop it on someone… But that’s not what it’s used for… and the extra hoops should be in proportion.
edit: Have I stumbled on some gun-loving easily offended part of lemmy? Let’s see some congruent argument against anything I wrote. I encourage it. Be a brave snowflake.
By this logic, you should also have to jump through those same hoops to get things that can be used to create with minimal experience said tools explicitly capable of sending projectiles at lethal speeds, or: this bill.
Sure, guns were “designed to kill people,” but A) so were swords and bows/arrows but those are legal and B) self defense is not morally wrong. Just like your bag of sand, guns can be misused to kill people illegally, but that is still a misuse. Of course, nobody is even advocating for NICs checks for other weapons, nor harder-than-NICs measures like quiver size restrictions or “ban assault (compound) bows…”
Nope. Not my argument in the slightest? Guns are made for it, have hoops for what it’s made for, especially when it’s used for stuff you don’t generally like. Have those be in proportion to that. Conceptually, this should be easy enough to understand, and it just describes the foundation for the argument of what is a “reasonable hoop”, when it comes to “crime prevention”. That’s what’s being discussed here no? I responded to someone arguing that gun owners need to go through “similar hoops”. To which I only called BS on it being in the same ballpark.
Simplified… “What is a reasonable measure, regarding purchase of X, when it comes to what that measure, can help with problem Y.”
Place X=“cars”, and Y=“car related deaths and injuries”, sure… I can see some hoops there making sense. Americans seem fine with the concept of a driver’s license.
Place X=“guns”, and Y=“crime / gun violence”, yeah… I can see some level of hoops making some sense. (I’d suggest a lot more,… but that would offend too many over there)
Place X=“3d printer” and Y=“crime / gun violence”… my argument: It doesn’t make much sense at all..
You seem to think that my argument was to suggests hoops on X, based on the maximum capability of X, when it comes to Y. I don’t know why you would think that, because I said that it must be in the correct proportion to the problem at hand. A bag of sand can be used to cause injury. But if what you want is to “reduce injuries”, you don’t restrict access to bags of sand. You can revisit that once you start having a bag-of-sand-causing-injury-problem. Similarly, if you want to reduce “gun violence / crime”, you don’t restrict “access to 3d printers”. I have a hunch that normal guns outnumber 3d printed guns, in crimes, at least at a generous 10000000:1. And you can make a better one with a metal tube and some welding. Hence… “not in the same ballpark”. Which is why you also don’t need any hoops to buy a kitchen knife.
So, either you are arguing the same point as me, or you didn’t get my point.
(PS: There’s also a third option of disagreeing with my argument, in which case you would believe the hypothetical that if 3D printing technology was removed from existence, that it would reduce crime, or whichever Y is in question. That’s the loosest possible hypothetical, which would be in your favor to argue.).
And you don’t even need a background check to buy a black powder firearm. Walk into your local Cabela’s with a couple of hundred bucks, walk out with one ready to shoot. If you’re old enough to grow a beard they probably won’t even ask to check your ID to see if you’re over 18.
The ATF has repeatedly stated they’re not interested in regulating these “historical” items. Never mind swords and bows, a lot of men have been put in pine boxes by a sloppily cast ball of lead coming out of a Patterson or a Remington. Just, probably mostly between the years of 1836 and 1901.