Awesome, fuck SUV’s
Yes! Fuck them! Wait…what? Why can’t i park my Peugeot e-308 there? WHAT? No! That’s not an SUV! Well…it’s 1759 Kg and therefore an SUV. This rule is utter stupidity.
“But that will make it cost prohibitive to own an SUV!!!”
Yes… Yes it will.
You call it a bug.
I call it a feature.
Parisians hate their fellow countrymen almost as much as they hate Americans.
Maybe it’s because the MINI Countryman SUV is a UK brand manufactured by a German car company…
Bruh, when you get a SUV/truck to drive around, you’re declaring war on everyone else. It’s literally an arms race.
Wrong thread?
Wait, they banned electric scooter rentals?
Is the main argument that they’re unsightly?
So, I’m pretty sure they’re talking about the rental-scooters, not all scooters, which, peopel who tend to buy their own don’t do these things… but…people get hurt on them, they increase accidents. People do stupid shit, like riding on sidewalks and trying to zip through pedestrians.
they get locked up all over the place, blocking sidewalks, entryways, bikeracks, etc.
in short the rental things are a massive nuisance,
I’d like to add that Paris is one of the tightest cities there is in Europe. there’s just so little space already. with thousands of badly parked scooters cluttering up sidewalks people got fed up very quickly. the vote was pretty one sided IIRC.
They said they’re dangerous and cause stress for pedestrians
Stand up scooters should use the bike lanes.
AFAIK, the main issue wasn’t where they’re used but where they’re stored. While scooters riding on sidewalks is an issue, the bigger issue is them cluttering the sidewalk and becoming an impedance to pedestrians, especially those with disabilities.
Interesting. I’ve seen this where I live, rental scooters just littering the sidewalk.
I wonder, whether personally-owned scooters will become more prevalent if rentals aren’t available.
I guess personally-owned scooters are going to be parked more responsibly rather than just left wherever.
I see a lot of people where I live riding around on scooters but haven’t seen the rental ones here like in bigger cities so I guess personally owned do become more popular if you can’t rent
Because humans are known for following rules to a fault.
so instead of that one rule, you think it’s better to have a different rule?
Well… yes ?
I mean there will always be people that break the rules but in my experience once something becomes a law, like smoking in certain areas or whatever, people tend to follow the rules.
The rule already exists, living in the suburbs and working in Paris, I can tell you that they ended up forbidding them because a lot of people weren’t using them on the road.
Wouldn’t this apply to both rented and personally-owned scooters though?
Getting rid of the rentals might reduce the number temporarily, but doesn’t really seem to solve the problem.
most people who buy their own don’t leave it out on the street, and (while I’m not in paris…) my experience is they also tend to be more responsible about it. like riding while sober, wearing helmets, and being in the bike lane (or wherever they’re supposed to be)
Yeah I think you’re dead right there.
The rental scooters do seem to bring out the worst in people, or maybe they just tend to hilight people’s general disrespect for “things” particularly those which do not belong to them.
People will always take care of their own stuff better than someone else’s.
Edit: I’ve also noticed that people aren’t using them that much where I live. They were all over the place for a minute, but now don’t see them very much.
It gets rid of all the unused rental scooters lying around on the sidewalk, and that was seen as the biggest nuisance. Privately owned scooters will never reach the same height of scooter littering.
The rental scooter companies were unwilling or unable to deal with the issue. They were warned that this was becoming an issue.
Privately owned scooters will never reach the same height of scooter littering.
Perhaps not scooter “littering” but surely just numbers of personal transport devices.
That is to say, if no other form of transport existed, then the presence of rental scooters would surely mean that there were fewer scooters in total and thereby fewer scooters parked on the sidewalk.
Someone who owns their own scooter is more likely to know local laws on where not to scoot - and if they don’t they can more easily be fined and learn them. Tourists rarely understand local traffic laws and, while you can fine them, they’ll leave next week and then a new tourist will arrive that also lacks that knowledge.
This seems like a very solvable problem.
It’s surprisingly difficult! Do you think you can turn right on a red in Provence? Would you remember to double check all your assumptions before going on vacation? Would your muscle memory fail you?
There are a truly staggering number of stories of people getting on the highway the wrong way or going into the wrong lane at an intersection when driving in the UK - there’s so many laws and habits we learn to operate in our society… and those aren’t the same everywhere.
Well yes, and yet even with these lapses you mention our cities are not in eternal pandemonium.
Laws, signage, design of street scapes et cetera, all contribute to homogenising behaviour.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In a referendum on Sunday, which was closely watched by other capital cities, including London, 54.6% voted in favour of special parking fees for SUVs, according to provisional results.
“Parisians have made a clear choice … other cities will follow,” said Paris’s Socialist mayor, Anne Hidalgo, adding that road safety and air pollution were key reasons for the vote.
She said the aim was to deliberately target the richest drivers of expensive, heavy and polluting cars who had not yet made changes to their behaviour to address the climate crisis.
Emmanuel Grégoire, Paris’s deputy mayor, posted on X as voting began: “Heavier, more dangerous, more polluting … SUVs are an environmental disaster.”
Under Hidalgo, Paris has for years raised pressure on drivers by increasing parking costs and gradually banning diesel vehicles, while expanding the bicycle lane network in the congested capital.
The motorists’ lobby group 40 Millions d’Automobilistes had argued that drivers should be free to choose whatever vehicle they want, warning that the move to raise parking tariffs was unjustified and the work of “an ultra-urban and anti-car minority”.
The original article contains 540 words, the summary contains 180 words. Saved 67%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
54.6% doesn’t seem like a clear choice to me.
This whole vehicular size arms race needs to go away please.
It’s so retarded that people think they need to get bigger cars to “protect” themselves in accidents. Just feedback looping stupidity.
The next “logical” step after SUVs is driving APCs in the name of safety.
already exists, armed with variety of lethal and non-lethal defense systems, up-armoured to take on anything short of 30mmAP rounds
But how will the other people know I have money if my car isn’t huge?
The protection argument has some merit, though. I remember seeing several studies that show survival rates are bigger for the SUV inhabitants in crashes. What SUV drivers don’t know (or simply don’t care about) is that it’s survival in the detriment of smaller cars inhabitants.
While this is great, someone who doesnt mind paying a 100k for a car wont mind the extra fees.
What would really change the game is changing existing parking spaces to fixed size parking spaces and if your over that you get towed.
That would mean they have to park their car somewhere more remote which would incentisize not buying huge cars to begin with
I can’t speak for Parisians, but here in the us my experience is that it’s the people who drove the big cars who bitch the most about the price of gas.
So the added cost would definitely be a disincentive.
It’s a gentle nudge.
If you’re picking a car, and didn’t think about it very much, something like paying more for parking might well nudge you to a smaller car.
And it means when those 100k cars go on the second hand market for 20k a few years later, the people paying that much will not be happy with the fees.On a slight tangent, range rovers are being targeted by criminals. To the point where RR ups the security, and it’s worked around in a month or so.
This has lead to insurance premiums going way up. And while there are a few people just choking down the payments, others are switching away from RR, or from SUVs entirely.
It doesn’t put every customer off, but it certainly affects a chunk.
54.6% voted for the increase… turnout was 5.7%. So just over 3% of the eligible Parisian population voted for this.
LOL at all the SUV drivers that didn’t go to vote
They were trying to find parking during the vote and missed it.
Easiest vote in the world is to vote to raise someone else’s taxes. We should do that for billionaires.
Actually, in Paris, if you own an SUV or drive one in the city, you’re rich. Poorer can’t afford one and even a car is too expensive. It’s already a tax on the rich.
For more taxes on the wealth, it’s up to the national government and it’s a complete different story.
Not just “someone” else’s. SUV owners’. Specifically. For a good reason.
Good. They are about as expensive as normal car park fees in Amsterdam.
Suck it, SUV owners in Paris.
But really, suck it every SUV owner. They’re terrible in every single way and no one can change that.
As an SUV owner, I agree. It tries to do too many things, so it’s not good at any of them. When we had kids, I wanted a minivan. They’re ugly, they don’t get good gas mileage, their handling is like a pregnant yak- but if you need to haul around kids and their stuff, there’s nothing better. My wife at least considered it, but we ended up with a hybrid SUV. I don’t completely hate it, but I still would rather have gotten a minivan.
What about hybrid crossover SUVs?
They pay an additional tax for being ugly
5.6% participation. A joke
Well, those who did not vote are complacent to the majority vote. So I’d say that’s a win.
Always go out there and vote, regardless of the option you choose. That’s what keeps a democratic system up and running. If you don’t, you just agree with what is decided by others and stay complacent.
True, dummies that ignore local votes are jokes.
Fuck SUVs, but I don’t really like the idea that something you already own outright can be regulated to the point where it’s highly inconvenient or impossible to use. I.e someone (albeit an idiot) uses their SUV to get to and from work, whose employer does not pay for or supply parking, now has to either pay 3x more for parking or sell their SUV (which will probably come at a huge loss with everyone else selling their SUV for the same reason).
If we couldn’t do that, it’d be pretty difficult to ever back down from a bad policy decision, which isn’t exactly great either.
If it weren’t already unethical and obnoxious to drive an SUV in Paris, I’d agree that it should be phased in. As it is, however…
Dude have you ever been to Paris? Have you seen how the people live? What is that tower of ignorance that you’re speaking from? Anyone who drives an SUV in Paris likely doesn’t have a real, traditional job at all. The costs associated with owning a large vehicle there are absolutely insane, starting from gas, taxes, and parking costs, ending with literally not being able to go into some streets if your vehicle is too large. It won’t be a problem for these moneybags, don’t speak for them.
It’s not like it would be impossible to sell. Yeah maybe not to Paris people but it is possible. Yeah is a burden… But tbh most didn’t need a SUV in Paris…for the off chance they went somewhere else were it makes sense…once for twice.
Boo hoo, cry me a river
I’m sure the folks who drive larger vehicles because they’re hauling things like wheelchairs will protest that.
There ARE valid reasons for SUVs.
Well, it shouldn’t be hard to write in an exemption just for folks with wheelchairs. It’s almost a non-issue.
Luckily the bus and subway in Paris are both wheelchair accessible, safe, and easy to use.
Also it’s extra squeaky!
There ARE valid reasons for SUVs.
no. not really.
Professionals who need something with storage space for work use vans.
People who need to also transport a wheelchair will use a different car, that is not terribly to get in and out of.
SUVs have 0 reasons to exist, especially outside the US
The prices will apply to vehicles weighing more than 1.6 tonnes with a combustion engine or hybrid vehicles, and more than 2 tonnes for electric vehicles.
Seems like it applies to vans as well
fair enough. But at that point it’s basically another business expense.
SUVs don’t really do much in the area of “hauling stuff around”. They are really really bad at it, if you compare it to normal transporters
I’m not really understanding, what makes the US different in this regard?
Have you been to Europe? Have you walked the streets of Paris? The US was built with enough space being everywhere. American roads are wider, cities are mostly built like square-grids of roads built in a time when cats existed whereas European cities emerged in the middle ages. They’re tightly packed with little extra space. Sometimes (very rarely) here there are old Cadillacs that can be rented for weddings. Seeing one of these cars on the street is an unreal experience. They’re just so huge. They don’t fit on the streets here - and those are cars from the 60s or 70s. Everything seems tiny compared to them. From a European perspective it’s really stupid to build such large vehicles as driving and parking it is much more complicated when everything is build for small cars. Now that SUVs are becoming popular here too it’s just a really annoying. Less parking space per vehicle etc. On cities like Paris - one of the tightest city on Europe this is just annoying. And i haven’t even written about fuel consumption. Paris has had huge problems with smog in recent years.
American roads are wider, cities are mostly built like square-grids of roads
And we’re paying for that, too.
The Ugly, Dangerous, and Inefficient Stroads found all over the US & Canada - Not Just Bikes
Why link the paywalled version when it’s on youtube?
First video on Nebula is free, and it has no ads.
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I haven’t been to Western Europe but I do live in Singapore with roads that I would say are quite narrow and SUVs aren’t that rare here either. So I can’t say I really understand entirely but I think I do get what you mean.
The US is built more for SUVs than places outside it, so they make a little bit more sense than in places like Paris.
But only a little bit more sense. They’re still obnoxious and far too big in the US.
True, lots of places (but I suppose maybe not everywhere) have really wide roads with tons of lanes so it’s easy to drive around with SUV’s, but this is generally not true in Europe where, even in large cities, often roads/lanes are narrower, making SUV’s unwieldy for those driving around them.
Then there’s the pollution aspect which I can’t address, but I imagine SUV’s pollute more on average than other cars (and probably Europe is currently being a bit more stingy on allowing this)
the onyl reason they exist in the US is because a regulations loophole.
The EU doesn’t have that loophole, so SUVs don’t even have that reason to exist. Which you can see, as SUVs are super rare in the EU, while they top all car sales ranks in the US in the last couple years
SUVs and crossovers are most popular cars in Europe.
Here’s a French source, coincidentally: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2023/09/14/suvs-now-dominate-european-car-market_6135326_19.html
Til that model y is a suv.
You didn’t notice until now?
Just looks like a slightly raised sedan to me. Shrug
SUVs are not super rare in the EU (unfortunately). They are pretty common in cities and cause a lot of accidents.
Is there a c/confidentlyincorrect?
I don’t think you are right on SUVs not being a thing here. What is the legal loophole in the US about?
This covers the whole thing in detail, but there are some exceptions to light trucks in the Us that also applies to SUVs for some reason
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I’m pretty sure disabled driver have free parking.
if you have a wheelchair you get dedicated parking spaces anyway. what’s your problem? what are you talking about?
And those with the proper credentials can be e excepted.
They will be exempted, as well as residents and professionals.
There are also valid reasons for disabled people to be against SUVs, and the abundance of cars in general: pollution creates disabilities, and so much pollution comes from car tyres. I know, because I have a disability that’s associated with said pollution, and I wouldn’t wish this on anyone else so I really hope we can replace car use with less polluting methods as soon as possible. And then there’s the more physical way: cars crashing into people also creates disabilities. If you’re disabled, you’re probably more likely to have sympathy for all the other disabilities that cars contribute to creating, and would prefer if SUVs and cars were replaced by other methods.
