Capitalism may hold us back in some regards but really helps in others.
The majority of people would likely be feudal peasants, working under a warmonger family that owns the sustaining land by force. No upward mobility except through bloodshed.
I suppose not much has changed then
The majority of people
would likely beare feudal peasants, working under a warmonger family that owns the sustaining land by force. No upward mobility except through bloodshed.FTFY
That’s literally how it is now
When you lack the imagination to think about how it could be worse, you can still get the detailed descriptions of it from history.
And yet no one cares because this is what we’re dealing with now
No, you are not dealing with the life of a feudal peasant. Just stop
No, we’re dealing with worse. Much, much worse.
You can’t make me stop
No I can’t. Just one way in which your life is different than that of a feudal peasant.
Yet you’re still desperately trying so it’s obvious our suffering is valid and that you can’t just invalidate it by comparing our situation to that of people 500-600 years ago, can you?
You can keep trying to get one over on me, though. I suppose it’ll take the sting out of the last two times you failed. 🍿
Significantly less, since commerce and the ability to trade things for a different value forms the basis for civilization. It’s easy to grow and hunt your own food, because that’s immediate and concrete. The farther away you get from that, the more abstract that thing becomes. It’s going to be harder for people to feel any sense of connection and purpose with making the rubber that goes into a seal on the International Space Station when they don’t see any direct benefit from the research done there, and they likely can’t even see the indirect benefit of that fundamental research.
For good or ill, commerce is how civilizations universally work, and you’d have to imagine a completely different species that evolved under vastly different circumstances to have anything else.
Commerce is just the exchange of goods and services. If we all stop exchanging goods, in what sense would we have a civilization? What would you or anyone accomplish if you had to grow your own food, make your own clothes, build your own house…?
Commerce is fine, greed is not. OP missed that distinction.
Interesting, what would be the alternative? Technology, culture, religion, military? Taking those options out of Civ
religion
I’d love to see how that one plays out. Lol
Tbf we ostensibly already have and are again.
I think that’s the key question. Like, I get capitalism is hedgemonical (is that even a word?), but what alternative do you propose?
You could start by giving everyone a share of profits rather than pushing all the money up towards the people who have the most.
Let machines do the work so we can do what we want with our time. We’re working more than people did in the past despite our technology. And the reason we have to is the alternative is starving to death in the streets.
Both of these things violate the principles of capitalism.
I’m currently reading The Day The World Stops Shopping by JB Mackinnon, which argues the same point you’re asking about, I think you’d find it interesting.
https://www.jbmackinnon.com/the-day-the-world-stops-shopping
I kinda feel like we would have done way, way worse without commerce. We’re social beings. We do better when cooperating than trying to go at it alone. Commerce is merely one of the many glues that keep us cooperating on some level. Yes, it also leads to competition; but less so than it would without it. Why kill you and take what you have that I want when I can just give you something I have that you want for it?
Capitalism, and making commerce the end all be all of civilization is what we could do without. It’s a means to an end, not the goal.
What about a meritocracy based system where any type of contribution is rewarded, whether it be research, garbage cleanup, etc.? (I’m sure there’s holes to poke in it, just thinking outside of the box.)
The problem with that and most other proposals for whatever other moneyless utopian society is that they all implicitly require some manner of all-powerful central authority to ensure that the rewards get distributed, the labor gets allocated, and the rules stay followed.
And we already know how well that’s going to turn out.
And yet here you are, in the fediverse.
That’s odd, me and my housemates can distribute our housekeeping jobs amongst ourselves without having someone come along and tell us what to do.
Yet when it comes to the country I live in, this is suddenly unimaginable because who would want to live somewhere functional of their own volition.
It works for 4 people. It does not work for 4 million.
You’ve tried?
There’s this thing called democracy, where people can come together as a community to discuss issues and work out solutions - such as allocating work loads as need be, you see this in many large community projects across the world. That’s the same underlying principle my house uses, communication not authority.
That is literally an authoritarian system.
What do you think the role of ‘General Secretary’ was? Its tankie shit.
That is literally an authoritarian system.
Huh, wonder how they went from communism to authoritarianism. Well, surely that was a one time coincidence and not indicative of a systemic failure of communism as an ideology.
I’m genuinely curious, how could communism be applied to millions of people without any central authority to oversee the system? Say, the sewer need to be maintained, and the people assigned to the work by the community decided “nah, I don’t want to clean the sewer” and not show up to work, what would the community do? What if the people assigned to mining coals decided they don’t want to mine coal anymore because it’s a horrible job and no one volunteer to replace them? Will the community force them to work or face punishment? If so, who make the decision if not a central authority?
