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- aiop@lemmy.world
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I’m probably just speaking for myself, but this particular dynamic actually makes me feel better about supporting Biden. I think Joe Biden himself is a contemptible dumbass whose policy imagination is stuck in a past that never even actually existed, but I think he’s had to surround himself with a lot of staffers in their 20s 30s and 40s who aren’t so terminally dense on things like Israel and student loans and reproductive healthcare and labor unions, and they can actually make him evolve and be a little bit less of a boomer than he otherwise would be. Hopefully they’re able to keep the pressure up.
Exactly, Trunp would be purging these people from his administration, and wouldn’t be holding Israel back at all, if anything Trump might send troops in or order some strikes himself just to feel like he’s partipating in the slaughter.
Biden has shown that he’s movable on issues whereas Trump would just take a sharpie to those issues, or worse, far worse.
“movable on issues”
he took office and immediately backtracked on campaign promises firing staffers, not defending healthcare, told rail workers they did not have a right to ask for better, and not to mention the rest and the recent
campaign promises that went against his and his vice’s whole career so big surprise there
The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers says:
“We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers."
And I hate to tell you this, but if you want a president who doesn’t back down on any campaign promises, you will never, EVER be satisfied. Because realistic promises don’t inspire voters & win elections, optimism does (at least for Dems, GOP prefers fear)
Follow up on the rail workers thing. I had to eat a bit of crow on that one myself.
How is he movable? All he’s done is send more weapons and spread disinformation/propaganda even israel said were lies…
Joe Biden being the one doing it just causes liberals to protest less than If trump was doing it. Same thing with Covid, Biden laughed at masks and took his off while sick and has done nothing to stop the pandemic that is infecting over 2 million people in the US a day and killing 1,000 a day. That’s multiple 9/11s a week and yet liberals act like it’s nothing cuz it’s not trump in charge anymore.
… has done nothing to stop the pandemic…
Bullshit.
A year in, experts assess Biden’s hits and misses on handling the pandemic:
Goal 1: Restore trust with the American people- Experts say on this front, the Biden administration has not made much progress, although they acknowledge how challenging a problem it is.
Goal 2: Mount a safe, effective, comprehensive vaccination campaign- His administration made huge strides in expanding vaccine supply and access, experts say.
Goal 3: Mitigate spread through expanding masking, testing, treatment, data, workforce and clear public health standards- This is an area where the administration has fallen short
Goal 4: Immediately expand emergency relief and exercise the Defense Production Act- The president scored an early win signing the American Rescue Plan into law- “this administration in particular has been quite skillful with respect to its use of the DPA.”- Still, “the main message here is too little, too late on masks and testing,” From Turner’s perspective, the current supply problems have less to do with underutilized federal authority and more to do with the virus itself
Goal 5: Safely reopen schools, businesses and travel, while protecting workers- Schools continue to be a contentious issue the Supreme Court blocking the White House’s attempt to require vaccination or tests for employers with 100 or more workers.
Goal 6: Protect those most at risk and advance equity, including across racial, ethnic and rural/urban lines- The administration has been “moderately successful” on this front, says Benjamin of the APHA.
Goal 7: Restore U.S. leadership globally and build better preparedness for future threats.- This “is certainly an area where the administration promised big but has fallen short so far,” she adds.
You can criticize the Biden COVID response, which seems to be a mixed bag. But you absolutely cannot say he’s done nothing. And he’s certainly moved us in the right direction, unlike Trump who was the single largest driver of coronavirus misinformation.
He laughed at masks during his recent infection and took it off while around people. Hasnt launched a campaign for clean air, is doing nothing to increase booster rates, hasnt mentioned long covid once, isnt funding long covid treatments or clean air initiatives for schools or businesses.
during his recent infection
It was his wife who was infected, not him, and he tested negative. Not good, but not the grim picture you’re trying to paint.
Is doing nothing to increase booster rates
Biden admin allocated $1 Billion for COVID vaccine trials this year.
Hasn’t mentioned long COVID once
He hasnt mentioned long covid. He should be doing press about long covid and how people should be avoiding reinfection still by masking and cleaning the air with air purifiers and upgraded hvacs but hes not because he wants everyone to pretend covid is over and be in the office.
That initiative is a couple million dollars for a disease thats killing and disabling millions of people that he isnt talking about at all while sending billions for weapons for genocide. Why isnt he talking about clean air, and acting like its no big deal. This should be a war time style effort to combatting the pandemic but he hasnt whispered it.
His administration has been so bad at public health messaging people are wondering “whats in the air” and shocked that “covid is still a thing”. The cdc is still putting out messaging about washing hands and they still havent put out a plan or regulations for co2 monitoring and clean air initiatives in federal buildings, hospitals, classrooms, and businesses.
He hasnt mentioned long covid.
He hasnt whispered it.
…
That initiative is a couple million dollars
He has literally enacted policy to address this. You can critique that it’s not enough, but you cannot say he hasn’t done anything.
If verbally saying something is what does it for you: ““We are bringing agencies together to make sure Americans with long Covid, who have a disability, have access to the rights and resources that are due under disability law,” Biden said during his remarks.”
I imagine his speech wasn’t whispered.
Movable? Why the do you think his staffers are quitting? Genocide Joe has no plans to change course precisely because people like you support Genocide.
After bombing 20k people he bypasses Congress to send more bombs to israel. He is not movable. He is a pure Zionazi.
Israel tried to get Trump to start a war with Iran when he was in power, and Trump didn’t. There is little chance that Trump would do much worse than Biden.
There is little chance that Trump would do much worse than Biden
Bullshit. Trump praises & enables authoritarians worldwide, refused to support the two state solution, emboldened Israeli supremacists by recognizing Jerusalem as their capitol & moved the US embassy there, and cut aid to Palestinian refugees by 80%..
it’s not like biden restored that aid, moved the embassy back, and has been advocating a two state solution. he emboldened the israeli supremacists by saying he is a zionist
it’s not like Biden restored that aid
… has been advocating two state solution
your links indicate that the aid has not been restored and he hasn’t said shit about a Palestinian state since 2022, but he did just say he is a zionist.
aid has not been restored
Yes it fucking has “President Joe Biden has restored hundreds of millions of dollars of UN funding that was cut under President Donald Trump.”
Hasn’t said shit about Palestinian state since 2022
Yes he fucking has. “Biden Says a ‘Real’ Palestinian State Must Come After War” - 11/16/23
JFC this shit is so easy to Google.
OK so? Biden is actively killing thousands of Palestinian children. Trump cut the Iran deal but he didn’t star a war like israel wanted. Trump withdrew from Afghanistan too.
When you follow the money it looks like Genocide Joe is by far the favorite choice for israeli lobbies.
1 Biden, Joe (D) President $3,753,244
2 Perdue, David (R-GA) Senate $1,053,098
3 Trump, Donald ® President $894,032
Israel really loves Genocide Joe and we can see why. He will even bypass Congress to continue their genocide.
actively killing
No. Biden is aiding and abetting Israel which is terrible, but there are zero US troops in Gaza, and Biden is not directing Israel’s Gaza invasion.
Trump withdrew from Afghanistan too.
Umm ok, if you’re considering all the conflicts of the world, then the genocide of the Climate Crisis is the most devastating. You gonna fuckin tell me how much better Trump is than Biden on climate?
I don’t think he’s a dumbass, I think he’s a man in his 80s that hasn’t/can’t adapt to the times and needs more convincing than should be necessary. I honestly think his heart is in the right place, but he’s just too damn old.
I honestly think his heart is in the right place, but he’s just too damn old.
There’s no “right place” for a heart that supports genocide to be.
And yet, he’s still getting my vote over Trump.
I bitterly resent those who placed me in a situation where my choices are “genocide” and “more genocide.”
Yeah m, and the worst of them have the audacity to be moral about it too.
Heck yeah supporting genocide let’s go boys.
Here’s the annoying thing about our system: so what? If you stop supporting Biden, and trump gets re-elected, congrats, you now have an extreme Isreal supporter in office who would give nukes to Isreal. By being fed up with the current administration, you would have shot your own cause by withdrawing.
Israel already has nukes
https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat
@CollisionResistance @conquer4 Choosing either candidate results in a Pro-Israel president. Biden is on record several times proclaiming his affinity for Zionism.
Deeper than the system, unfortunately. A supermajority of Americans are still extremely pro-Israel. Some for batshit insane religious reasons, others for reasons of ignorance. A few out of pure malice, one presumes.
Americans are pro-Israel because, for the past 75 years, we’ve been taught and told that all the Arabs and/or Muslims want to destroy Israel and we are the only country that can prevent that from happening.
For the majority of Americans, it is not religion or ignorance, it is simply political dogma.
America wasn’t particularly friendly towards Israel until the 70s, though.
And to be fair, much of the Arab world has wanted to destroy Israel.
We have little sway in that matter, though. Israel survived before we lent them assistance, and they were much worse off back then, and their enemies much more determined.
Good! The let’s stop selling them weapons, withdraw our carriers, and let them deal with the consequences of their actions on their own.
It is really fucking easy to do what you want, to be ho you want, with no repercussions when you have the worlds strongest military backing you.
The little fuckers wouldn’t have enough balls to do what they have been doing without our backing.
For fucks sake, they are so scared and cowardly that they are shooting innocent hostages, with their shirts off, hands up and a white flag in them.
Good! The let’s stop selling them weapons, withdraw our carriers, and let them deal with the consequences of their actions on their own.
I mean, shit, you won’t find any disagreement from me. As far as I’m concerned, Israel should be treated as a hostile actor to the US.
The little fuckers wouldn’t have enough balls to do what they have been doing without our backing.
Don’t know about that, though.
Cutting off all military aid to Israel would definitely make us feel better for a minute, but I think your post accurately points out that what comes next is likely to be much worse. One genocide may turn into a different genocide as the regional powers decide it’s open season on Israel. Then once Israel is facing probable eradication, the US is faced with allowing the destruction of Israel (including Israelis that oppose the current actions of their state), or getting back into a conflict, now with many more regional forces, and possibly nation states involved.
I absolutely agree with you that the IDF’s actions are abhorrent and consistent with war crimes as I understand international agreement (which is only layman’s understanding), but Bibi appears to be playing chicken with the entire population of Israel, and Biden may have blinked after considering the consequences.
Those are the consequences of their actions, let the smart ones get out and the war hawks get what they paid for.
Older Americans inherited the post WW2 mentality to support Israel. And they couldn’t say anything critical for fear of being called anti-Semitic.
Younger Americans don’t have this and laugh at the attempts to call criticism anti-Semitic. (The exception are religious people who support Israel because Bible something.)
It’s a generational thing. That’s why support for Israel is falling.
That’s what primaries are for. I agree the system isn’t perfect but so many people ignore the primaries then wonder why their party never changes. Again. That’s what primaries are for.
“Rely on the primaries” - people who love that the party opposes progressives in primaries harder than it opposes Republicans in any context.
Just to expand a bit on what your already said, those arguments conveniently ignore the DNC et al fight hard against the left, outspending any progressivess who attempt to unseat the right-leaning Dems. Then with their center-right party safely entrenched they tut-tut at us wanting the Dems to help the working class, describing the tilted table they’ve set up as “a big tent party”
Yeah, it’s a big tent, and we aint in it
Biden is going to hand the 2024 election to Trump on a golden platter if he doesn’t change course, even though everyone who isn’t braindead knows Trump would be doing exactly the same.
everyone who isn’t braindead
So a significant minority of voters
I don’t even know if I would say significant anymore, we’re gold fish in this country
It’s almost like we’ve undermined our public education system, built an economy that keeps most of us pretty close to survival mode most of the time, and we’re constantly deluged with commerical and political advertisements that are designed to manipulate and mislead us or something
Unfortunately it’s extremely geographic. We’re pretty singular, but which “single thing” you get varies tremendously depending on where you are.
If you live in San Fran, “everyone” is a certain way. If you live in the rural heartland, “everyone” is the opposite.
On top of that, the number of people that can and are willing to speak the language of both sides is vanishingly small, due to the rhetoric and style of one side being extremely distasteful to the other.
I think ranked choice voting is probably our best, most realistic shot forward, by reducing the importance of the hard liners in the primaries.
The problem is it isn’t “both sides” when neither side really represents, I hope, most people. Ten years ago “republican” didn’t really have to imply mouth breathing fox news fanatic, and “democrat” continues more and more to mean “everybody that would be considered left in a european country but also the moderate right that don’t want to gas immigrants”. Any “side” has several if not dozens of wildly different and often barely compatible ideologies, thanks to our two party system.
To speak to a republican you have to simultaneously be prepared for them to casually support some horrific extremist idea, just be a sexist and/or racist insecure twat, or to just want less of their money going to government programs they don’t agree with.
Ranked choice voting, or frankly any voting style besides first past the post is the only way to fix that.
That’s a good point. It’s important to remember that each party is a huge coalition of different voters with different priorities, and there’s even independents in the middle.
That said, I still think it’s important that we stop hiding from and shunning what we perceive as evil, and start facing it down and punching it in the gut. With words, ideally, while we still can. It is possible to simply help people to see things in new ways, it’s just hard and unpleasant.
The Israel situation won’t swing the vote. Most people support Israel blindly or don’t care enough to be knowledgeable.
A couple of recent polls asked “What is the most important issue to you?”.
About 30-35% said “the economy”. Only 1-2% said “Israel/Gaza”.
Why would anyone expect it to be much higher than that? People are selfish and that’s not entirely unreasonable when it comes to politics. It makes no sense for a foreign policy position to be the determining factor when deciding who to vote for, especially when we have so many problems here at home.
Lol the US has been supporting Saudi Arabia through their war on the Houthis for 3 consecutive administrations which killed checks notes 85.000 children alone
Some libs who just recently learned less than half about the conflict in Palestine and think it’s Kony 2.0 smh
85,000 over 16 years versus 20,000 in three months.
There’s a real big fucking difference
That’s 85.000 children starving over a 4 year period alone. 380.000 total civilian deaths over 8 years.
Did you see a lot of protests to call for a ceasefire? Do you feel their deaths are less worthy?
OK, so what do you need to do is take it over the last three consecutive administrations like you said.
That starts with Obama for eight years, trump for four and Biden 43 going on four.
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
Maybe you should lead with the real numbers instead of the fucking gotcha numbers.
Congratulations you got your got your moment that you specifically set up
Young voters are significantly impacted by this issue and they carry a lot of momentum. I think the people saying that this won’t sway the vote are really discounting how important that momentum is.
How are young American voters impacted by the war in Gaza? I understand they care about it, but impacted sounds like it has more than morale effects.
I wouldn’t reduce it to a binary. I think there’s a pretty good chunk of the population who are anti-Zionist and pro-Palestinian, but aren’t reachable as swing voters. They’re to the left of the current Democratic Party and might vote begrudgingly for Biden, but wouldn’t vote for Trump under any circumstances.
Anti-Israel, pro-Jewish, and pro-civilian Palestinians here! I will vote begrudgingly toward Biden, but will vote for candidates that do not support unconditional support toward Israel and they have naunced opinions while still supporting Jewish people and Palestinians.
This is great and all, but it doesn’t mean too much if Biden doesn’t actually care to correct course. There have been plenty of protests already showing the current policy is increasingly opposed by significant sections of the population, yet they’re only making the most token efforts at any sort of real change in their stance towards Israel. If tens of thousands of people turning out for protests on the matter don’t get it through the heads of Biden and other Democrats that this stance is untenable, I don’t see why we should expect he’ll suddenly start listening for a few staffers sending a stern letter.
In all likelihood, they’ll hold the line on this, then when Democrats lose the next elections, they’ll blame it on racists, antisemites, more leftist candidates spoiling their chances, or literally anything but doing some reflection and realizing some of their long-held positions are now deeply unpopular with a significant portion of their voter base.
If they’re dropping, I’m afraid it likely means they’ve lost hope in facilitating a course correction.
Being out of the ring isn’t going to give them any more power than they had inside of it. But being out of the ring is still the better place to be, if staying with the team means furthering actions that you oppose.
Any chance Dems are 4d chess enough to be laying it on thick now, level Gaza quickly, create enough buffer to pull out a few months before Nov, count on the collective memory seeming to be a few weeks these days?
Vote blue no matter who( even if they are actively aiding the suffering, killing, and destruction of innocent people, children and their homes)
Vote for Blue no matter who, and fight for change in your party in the primaries. That’s why we have them.
That’s why we have them.
When we feel like it. And have argued in court that we don’t have to run them fairly.
lol except we don’t have them anymore because they removed them for Biden had to be the only candidate able to run this election to prevent Trump from stopping elections and committing genocide. Ironic
So vote red?
Vote red so they can do the same thing while making life worse for Americans as well
I don’t belive the blue and red positions are very far apart on this particular issue. This is certainly an issue that justifies passionate response, but unless there is a candidate from the red that states that they would take a different approach more aligned with your values, I would look to other issues where the parties have made their differing positions more clear to decide which is more deserving of your vote.
What Republicans have been against the Palestinian genocide?
I disagree with them even more
So don’t criticize support for genocide?
I never said to not criticize.
When all criticism is conflated with voting Republican, it’s the same damned thing.
Fight for change in your party in the primaries. Nobody fucking votes in the primaries. That’s where intra party change happens. If Democrats lose in the general what do you think happens? They’re gonna get more left wing? No, they’re going to move to the right because they’re going to think that’s what they need to do to win. They need to win in the general and you need to change the party in the primary.
Fight for change in your party in the primaries.
Yeah, I’ve seen what the party does to progressives in primaries. This is just gloating.
How has moving more to the right been working for them? They need to realize already that they’re out of touch with much of their voter base. Maybe they don’t run more progressive candidates in purple states as a strategic call, but they could try something new in more liberal cities, at least, and start moving the conversation. I can’t be the only one where my primary options straight up suck. Oh, yeah, change things from within, where I have Corporate Democrats #1 and #2, running along with the Working Families Party candidate whose only concession is something weak like “Maybe we should increase EBT eligibility, but means test the hell out of it so it’s a full time job to manage your application.”
The current Democratic party basically claims to represent everyone to the left of Mussolini at this point, and that’s too big a group to be a functional political unit. Unfortunately, we’re basically screwed on a third party being viable, as it would depend on the two current parties taking action to change voting procedures in a way that could only hurt them. Democrats and Republicans are both content to sit on their hands right now, as they know that no matter how unpopular they may be, how badly they might lose elections, it’s only a matter of time before the other guys piss people off enough and the pendulum swings back to them.
At minimum the US could be a shield and help. Bring food and medical supplies as well as lifting out critically injured. You would also think if the US military was in there Israel would not be so reckless.
Israel doesn’t give a shit. They’ve domed American citizens in the past for the crime of being in Gaza. What’s a few more?
Domed?
Shot in the head
You would also think if the US military was in there Israel would not be so reckless.
They are, though. SEAL Team Six and Delta Force. Along with a lot of remote sigint and other intelligence resources.
At minimum the US could be a shield and help.
A minimum would be shutting down arms shipments. Aid is self-defeating when it’s their own bombs blowing up the civilians.
I actually needed you to write that last sentence to unpack my biased cognitive dissonance. Thanks for helping me grow.
I get it. That’s the nature of the mind and subjective experience. It often leads us to want to do more, when the better solution might be to stop doing something that we’re already doing (but which escapes our immediate consideration).
I’m happy to be a positive influence, but it was a coincidence. If you’ve grown it’s because you put in the effort, not me.
I’m sure they’re all Russian children who don’t know how government works engaging in astroturfing because they want Trump to win.
10/10
no notes
This is the best summary I could come up with:
“It’s pretty extraordinary levels of dissent,” said Josh Paul, a career official working on arms sales at the state department who resigned in protest in October, of the mounting signs of discontent.
“I cannot stay silent as this administration turns a blind eye to the atrocities committed against innocent Palestinian lives,” he wrote in announcing his resignation from his position as adviser to its policy planning office.
But the acute situation in Gaza caused by Israel’s ongoing operations, which have killed more than 22,000 Palestinians, along with risks of famine and severely restricted medical care, have overshadowed any purported shifts in US policy.
This week, the secretary of state, Antony Blinken, will travel to the Middle East “to underscore the importance of protecting civilian lives in Israel and the West Bank and Gaza”.
Paul, the senior state department career official who resigned in protest in October, said he’s in contact with several people currently in government who are thinking about leaving over Biden’s handling of Israel.
Habash’s resignation, coupled with the 3 January letter from current campaign staff, comes amid fears that Biden could be losing important members of his base as the 2024 presidential election begins in earnest.
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