Okay but that was a six year war against a comparable nation, at the time the Empire had colonized Korea and half of China so it was pretty sizeable. I think a lot of people have and will continue to argue that the nuclear bombs saved more lives than they ended.
Palestine on the other hand is a small part of the much larger Israel which is completely walled off and resource dependent on Israel including power and water which has been cut for almost a week. Israel have literally not even attempted a Ground Assault and spent the last 5 days doing nothing but Aerial Bombardment. They’re not digging trenches to hold back Hamas in even the wildest of imaginations, they’re just pressing buttons to annihilate massive complexes. Is one jew worth ten Palestinians?
I think a lot of people have and will continue to argue that the nuclear bombs saved more lives than they ended.
They traded the lives of combatants who have a reasonable expectation of bodily harm or death with civilian lives. The US traded a grueling war for war crimes. (Don’t get me wrong, Japan committed their fair share of atrocities during WW2, but that doesn’t excuse the nukes)
The Japanese leadership didn’t surrender after the firebombing of Tokyo, they didn’t surrender after the bombs, they surrendered after the Soviets declared war. The Generals didn’t give a fuck about the population, and Operation Meetinghouse caused just as many casualties as an atomic bomb. But what they definitely wanted to avoid at all costs was a Soviet occupation.
That’s fair and about 98% true but it wasn’t just a trade for combatant’s lives since after taking the islands the war was now on the Japanese Mainland in addition to the atrocities happening in the Japanese Colonies on the Asian Mainland and the intent of the Japanese to once again attack the Americas (though incredibly unlikely at that point in the war). My point still stands that comparing the power dynamic of the Nipon Empire and USA to that of Hamas and Israel is ingenuine.
For sure though, USA leadership should have been removed and held accountable for using Nuclear weapons on a densely populated area. Maybe even executed.
All according to plan for Hamas, they grow stronger every day, because they were put there by Egypt, Saudi, and Iran to sow discord in Palestine. I bet Netanyahu is loving it, too.
Are they, though? What is Israel supposed to do when the militarized terrorists use civilians as human shields? Not respond and get slaughtered by Hamas again?
I’m seriously asking: what strategy do you suggest for Israel? All answers I can think of right now are laughable in the face of the ideology and moral state of Hamas.
guarantee safe passage of women, children, and maybe elderly to west bank at the very least. slow infantry ground war to weed out and forcibly relocate noncombatants.
Being female or younger than 18 is no guarantee of not working for Hamas. Moving a group with a high percentage of terrorists embedded in it to infrastructure they want to target in an area with more accessible resources for weapons construction is a non-starter.
I think the best we can hope for is some distant country with the resources to keep the refugee group monitored for terrorist activity agrees to take a few hundred thousand people. Palestinians working in a Chinese state-owned manufacturing facility would be extremely problematic but maybe less bad than the alternatives.
@Duxon@adrian783 The West Bank is up next. The settlers have been displacing the locals there for years and that’s most of the soldiers were on Oct 7th.
that’s why Hamas did this. there are no good options for Israel. hamas knew that such a brutal attack would embarrass the right-wing leadership of israel and bait them into a brutal reaction
they are bombing the shit out of gaza to show their population they are doing something. but they know this bombing does very little. hamas has been preparing for this. they have a complex tunnel system underground. they’ve been stockpiling diesel, water, food, etc. the blockade is simply hurting the civilian population
hamas played israel like a fiddle. well, we’ll see. i think their goal is to expand this into a regional war. hezbollah promised they would join the war should israel launch a ground invasion. israel says it will, but i don’t know if it’s a bluff or not.
Hamas’s aim may have been to make Israel look bad from their retaliation and rally the other Middle Eastern enemies of Israel. But we don’t really know yet.
Edit: Caspian report just came out with a really great video about the complicated web of relationships that may have caused it, including torpedoing an Israel peace deal. https://youtu.be/2xjmelFwJow
It’s not working though. Israel has massive support. Gaza is in ruins. Israel have the excuse and political capital to spend to completely remove Gaza from the map. If I lived in Gaza I would be disgusted with the irresponsible and atrocious actions of Hamas.
Definitely. But information was imperfect too, maybe Hamas thought Israel’s recent political turmoil over trying to weaken the judicial branch. But still a horrible action and probably a massive blunder on Hamas’ part.
If the Israeli Government reacts with the same level of proportion as they have done every time since the far-right took power there, not even the vastly superior Israeli Propaganda Machine will be able to offset the impact on anybody but the most tribalist Israeli supporters of the picture of mass graves and dead women and children that will come out of this, especially if the blockade of Gaza leads to mass deaths from thirst and starvation.
It actually makes a lot of sense that Hamas escalated things this much because of just how bad Israeli escalation will look if they maintain the disproportion of reaction levels that they’ve had so far.
The leaderships on both sides couldn’t care less about human life.
They knew they would retaliate, but this is frankly disgusting.
Israel wanted this and are milking it for all it’s worth. What Israel is doing is an extremely disproportionate and exaggerated response in an attempt to continue to grab as much land as illegally as possible.
Gaza is already one of the most densely populated places on earth, and they want to cut their available land in half.
It’s insane that it’s being supported. Palestine does something and even the British send Warships to help. Israel does something far worse and the most we get is the EU saying “hmm this might not be legal”. It sucks.
My guess is that this was a catastrophic success for them. They probably planned the attack assuming significant resistance from the IDF. A few fighters would make it through the defenses. If they got lucky, they would be able to take a handful of hostages back into Gaza. Enough to score a political win and maybe earn a few concessions from the hostage negotiation, but not enough to upset the status quo.
When the IDF underperformed, Hamas was left with an attack that went too well, and now has to deal with an enemy that has decided to properly mobilize.
Dude, does this look like a “hostage rescue”? They were presumed dead the moment they got abducted. Hamas can claim victory all they want, all I see is Israel grabbing even more land.
Egypt should have told Hamas that they told Israel that the attack was going to happen, and that Israel was letting it happen. Netanyahu has been dreaming of having an excuse to wipe out Hamas, and Palestine, for decades.
In 2010, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas declared support for the barrier, adding: “It is the Egyptians’ sovereign right in their own country. Legitimate supplies should be brought through the legal crossings.”
pretty much this, it is still Egypt’s prerogative, why should they be made to open a border for a walled city when their host state doesn’t?
Israel allowed it to happen. Egypt announced that they showed Israel proof that it was going to happen, and the IDF strengthened their troop deployment in other parts of Israel. Egypt should have told Hamas that they were walking into a trap.
Genuinely? This is probably exactly what they expected. The only question is if this is what they were hoping for. Reprisals from Israel don’t drive people away from Hamas, there’s nowhere else they can go. It drives people toward them.
tbf, you’re a rando posting your opinion on it to the internet just like him, just in text format. Why should we listen to you?
With that said, everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You can listen, take it in, and research more if something doesn’t seem right to you.
Yes but one rando posting a video of another rando with no sources is even less credible than the singular rando just stating the opinion himself. People who believe “experts” without citations are unfortunately too common in this world.
There’s no difference between randos on the internet, everything is taken with a grain of salt and healthy suspicion. Doesn’t matter which rando it comes from.
Let me put it this way: If a man told me he was a medical doctor and another man also claimed to be a doctor and showed me a medical license written in crayons, which would I be more likely to believe?
Let me put it this way: Straw man arguments won’t work here.
edit: “A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction”
A bunch of ragtag militiamen vs one of the most advanced militaries in the world. I get that they’re desperate, but this was an inevitable outcome (as terrible as it is).
This seems like you’re trying to make a factual claim. Again, I don’t disagree with it but you’re just a rando on the internet just like the dude in the video. At least he’s put his face and name to his allegations/opinions.
I think it’s telling there was no reply,
Because if you look closely with a keen eye,
There was just a guy,
No one knows who he is,
But he says to listen to his ideas,
Opinion after opinion but lacking constitution,
Unable to face the prosecution.
Beau is a very smart person who generally does not make a lot of mistakes with his analysis.
He has contact with a lot of good journalists and experts.
The place he is recording from is a studio that was made to look like his okd garage, where he actually started making videos from, but as the channel took off he increased the quality of the videos a lot, he also hires people to research and fact check him afaik.
Guy is kinda just really smart and good at what he does.
deleted by creator
Isreal didn’t need to kill and destroy civilian lives for retribution.
As Sherman, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki have shown: War is hell.
Okay but that was a six year war against a comparable nation, at the time the Empire had colonized Korea and half of China so it was pretty sizeable. I think a lot of people have and will continue to argue that the nuclear bombs saved more lives than they ended.
Palestine on the other hand is a small part of the much larger Israel which is completely walled off and resource dependent on Israel including power and water which has been cut for almost a week. Israel have literally not even attempted a Ground Assault and spent the last 5 days doing nothing but Aerial Bombardment. They’re not digging trenches to hold back Hamas in even the wildest of imaginations, they’re just pressing buttons to annihilate massive complexes. Is one jew worth ten Palestinians?
They traded the lives of combatants who have a reasonable expectation of bodily harm or death with civilian lives. The US traded a grueling war for war crimes. (Don’t get me wrong, Japan committed their fair share of atrocities during WW2, but that doesn’t excuse the nukes)
Japan should’ve tried winning😎
Oh, I think they tried…
The Japanese leadership didn’t surrender after the firebombing of Tokyo, they didn’t surrender after the bombs, they surrendered after the Soviets declared war. The Generals didn’t give a fuck about the population, and Operation Meetinghouse caused just as many casualties as an atomic bomb. But what they definitely wanted to avoid at all costs was a Soviet occupation.
That’s fair and about 98% true but it wasn’t just a trade for combatant’s lives since after taking the islands the war was now on the Japanese Mainland in addition to the atrocities happening in the Japanese Colonies on the Asian Mainland and the intent of the Japanese to once again attack the Americas (though incredibly unlikely at that point in the war). My point still stands that comparing the power dynamic of the Nipon Empire and USA to that of Hamas and Israel is ingenuine.
For sure though, USA leadership should have been removed and held accountable for using Nuclear weapons on a densely populated area. Maybe even executed.
Never said they needed, just that it should’ve been expected.
Why do you assume Hamas cares about any of these innocent casualties?
Hamas absolutely loves this shit. This is their wet dream.
This will give them more recruits.
All according to plan for Hamas, they grow stronger every day, because they were put there by Egypt, Saudi, and Iran to sow discord in Palestine. I bet Netanyahu is loving it, too.
Are they, though? What is Israel supposed to do when the militarized terrorists use civilians as human shields? Not respond and get slaughtered by Hamas again?
I’m seriously asking: what strategy do you suggest for Israel? All answers I can think of right now are laughable in the face of the ideology and moral state of Hamas.
guarantee safe passage of women, children, and maybe elderly to west bank at the very least. slow infantry ground war to weed out and forcibly relocate noncombatants.
they didn’t even try.
Being female or younger than 18 is no guarantee of not working for Hamas. Moving a group with a high percentage of terrorists embedded in it to infrastructure they want to target in an area with more accessible resources for weapons construction is a non-starter.
I think the best we can hope for is some distant country with the resources to keep the refugee group monitored for terrorist activity agrees to take a few hundred thousand people. Palestinians working in a Chinese state-owned manufacturing facility would be extremely problematic but maybe less bad than the alternatives.
@Duxon @adrian783 The West Bank is up next. The settlers have been displacing the locals there for years and that’s most of the soldiers were on Oct 7th.
that’s why Hamas did this. there are no good options for Israel. hamas knew that such a brutal attack would embarrass the right-wing leadership of israel and bait them into a brutal reaction
they are bombing the shit out of gaza to show their population they are doing something. but they know this bombing does very little. hamas has been preparing for this. they have a complex tunnel system underground. they’ve been stockpiling diesel, water, food, etc. the blockade is simply hurting the civilian population
hamas played israel like a fiddle. well, we’ll see. i think their goal is to expand this into a regional war. hezbollah promised they would join the war should israel launch a ground invasion. israel says it will, but i don’t know if it’s a bluff or not.
Hamas’s aim may have been to make Israel look bad from their retaliation and rally the other Middle Eastern enemies of Israel. But we don’t really know yet.
Edit: Caspian report just came out with a really great video about the complicated web of relationships that may have caused it, including torpedoing an Israel peace deal. https://youtu.be/2xjmelFwJow
It’s not working though. Israel has massive support. Gaza is in ruins. Israel have the excuse and political capital to spend to completely remove Gaza from the map. If I lived in Gaza I would be disgusted with the irresponsible and atrocious actions of Hamas.
Definitely. But information was imperfect too, maybe Hamas thought Israel’s recent political turmoil over trying to weaken the judicial branch. But still a horrible action and probably a massive blunder on Hamas’ part.
it’s possible they really did not expect to penetrate so far inside Israel.
Potentially Israel also had prior warning from Egypt.
If the Israeli Government reacts with the same level of proportion as they have done every time since the far-right took power there, not even the vastly superior Israeli Propaganda Machine will be able to offset the impact on anybody but the most tribalist Israeli supporters of the picture of mass graves and dead women and children that will come out of this, especially if the blockade of Gaza leads to mass deaths from thirst and starvation.
It actually makes a lot of sense that Hamas escalated things this much because of just how bad Israeli escalation will look if they maintain the disproportion of reaction levels that they’ve had so far.
The leaderships on both sides couldn’t care less about human life.
That’s surely it, Hamas playing 4D chess. 😂
And they had to have known this would be the outcome.
So that was part of their calculation.
They knew they would retaliate, but this is frankly disgusting.
Israel wanted this and are milking it for all it’s worth. What Israel is doing is an extremely disproportionate and exaggerated response in an attempt to continue to grab as much land as illegally as possible.
Gaza is already one of the most densely populated places on earth, and they want to cut their available land in half.
It’s insane that it’s being supported. Palestine does something and even the British send Warships to help. Israel does something far worse and the most we get is the EU saying “hmm this might not be legal”. It sucks.
Because they’re fighting terrorists. That’s why, it’s not black and white like you’re making it out to be.
A terrorist movement that they, in part, have created and continue to fuel for decades.
Terrorism can only be squashed by de-escalation, even if it takes decades. Otherwise you’re just perpetuating the cycle of violence.
My guess is that this was a catastrophic success for them. They probably planned the attack assuming significant resistance from the IDF. A few fighters would make it through the defenses. If they got lucky, they would be able to take a handful of hostages back into Gaza. Enough to score a political win and maybe earn a few concessions from the hostage negotiation, but not enough to upset the status quo.
When the IDF underperformed, Hamas was left with an attack that went too well, and now has to deal with an enemy that has decided to properly mobilize.
The fun part is you can’t win! The US proves it just like the Soviets before them, colonial Europe so on so forth.
Dude, does this look like a “hostage rescue”? They were presumed dead the moment they got abducted. Hamas can claim victory all they want, all I see is Israel grabbing even more land.
Egypt should have told Hamas that they told Israel that the attack was going to happen, and that Israel was letting it happen. Netanyahu has been dreaming of having an excuse to wipe out Hamas, and Palestine, for decades.
Egypt should be in the headlines for their fortified borders, and lack of support.
I don’t blame Egypt for not wanting to get involved directly
They’re as complicit as Iran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Gaza_barrier
pretty much this, it is still Egypt’s prerogative, why should they be made to open a border for a walled city when their host state doesn’t?
My answer is always, “What’s the other outcome?”
There were 100 Hamas terrorists holding hostages.
And keyboard warriors are going, “Well Israel dropped the ball!” And like, okay? So… Those hostages?
It’s a shit situation all around. Fuck-if-you-do, fuck-if-you-dont.
Israel allowed it to happen. Egypt announced that they showed Israel proof that it was going to happen, and the IDF strengthened their troop deployment in other parts of Israel. Egypt should have told Hamas that they were walking into a trap.
Genuinely? This is probably exactly what they expected. The only question is if this is what they were hoping for. Reprisals from Israel don’t drive people away from Hamas, there’s nowhere else they can go. It drives people toward them.
They’re doing everything by the book. This is exactly what they were expecting.
https://youtu.be/UKvzOF-toIA?si=wT_gnPMuHHf0x5Td
Who even is that, and why should I listen to them? Seems like some rando doing vids in their basement.
You don’t have to, just thought you might find it interesting.
He’s a former journalist, current political activist/humanitarian. Incredibly well-read and knowledgeable.
tbf, you’re a rando posting your opinion on it to the internet just like him, just in text format. Why should we listen to you?
With that said, everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You can listen, take it in, and research more if something doesn’t seem right to you.
Yes but one rando posting a video of another rando with no sources is even less credible than the singular rando just stating the opinion himself. People who believe “experts” without citations are unfortunately too common in this world.
There’s no difference between randos on the internet, everything is taken with a grain of salt and healthy suspicion. Doesn’t matter which rando it comes from.
Let me put it this way: If a man told me he was a medical doctor and another man also claimed to be a doctor and showed me a medical license written in crayons, which would I be more likely to believe?
Let me put it this way: Straw man arguments won’t work here.
edit: “A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction”
It’s not really a strawman when I say providing unsubstantiated evidence as proof is not ethical and will be frowned upon.
I’m just trying to have a discussion, not indoctrinate people to my way of thinking. Pretty sure I haven’t made a single factual claim.
This seems like you’re trying to make a factual claim. Again, I don’t disagree with it but you’re just a rando on the internet just like the dude in the video. At least he’s put his face and name to his allegations/opinions.
I think it’s telling there was no reply,
Because if you look closely with a keen eye,
There was just a guy,
No one knows who he is,
But he says to listen to his ideas,
Opinion after opinion but lacking constitution,
Unable to face the prosecution.
Beau is a very smart person who generally does not make a lot of mistakes with his analysis.
He has contact with a lot of good journalists and experts.
The place he is recording from is a studio that was made to look like his okd garage, where he actually started making videos from, but as the channel took off he increased the quality of the videos a lot, he also hires people to research and fact check him afaik.
Guy is kinda just really smart and good at what he does.