I’m no lavatorial expert, but I’d guess the thermal conductivity of lava is relatively low. The high temp and high mass will keep it warm for a while, but water has a pretty high conductivity and capacity on its own. The agitation is distributing the heat too, well beyond the regular convection rate.
Heat capacity of lava per degree Celsius per unit of mass
Multiplied by temperature differential vs ambient, multiplied by mass = total extra heat energy
Then you calculate the sum of heat capacity multiplied by mass for lava and for water, and calculate from that how many degrees above ambient the two masses will land at when combined as the extra energy above is divided over both (assuming water starts at ambient temp)
It won’t be exact because heat capacity varies in materials as temperature changes, both steam and solidification of lava (state change) will contribute significantly, but it’s a decent first estimate
Okay. Then they add more and it will boil quickly. I guess the question boiles (huehue) down to how much water you can turn into stream per amount of lava or the inverse, how much lava you can cool down per amount of water.
The phase change from liquid water to stream will, by the way, not just contribute significantly but be by far the majority of energy needed. Simply heating water up, ignoring the phase change and changes of the heat capacity, with the same energy as it takes to go from liquid to gas (2257 kJ/kg) would result in a temperature rise of…
dT = 2257 kJ/kg / 4.2 kJ/(kg*K) = 537 K
Assuming enough water that most of it doesn’t boil, then my math would still check out, but yeah, any substantial amount of boiling forces you do do the math in multiple steps to handle that
Bruh. Someone else on this thread has already clarified to you the easy and what I was expecting question: what happens to the water and lava in the water bucket.
You already answered that question in this thread.
He might just be shielding his face from the heat. That said, I saw a little plant that almost survived the lava flow, and it was much closer than he was, so idk.
Normally when I see geologists standing around lava they have masks on, so I’d assume he has one under whatever he’s got on his face. Either that or maybe he was getting a couple quick scoops and wasn’t going to be standing around long enough for a mask to make a huge difference.
I’m a software engineer, not a physicist, but I’m not sure that makes sense for this. Heat does transfer much more quickly in oil than water, so it can cool something off more quickly, but oil can also get way hotter than water. That little bucket isn’t going to hold enough for a lot of thermal mass, so it’s pretty quickly going to get as hot as the lava (or as close as oil can get). Water turns to stream and boils off, so kind of caps the temp under normal conditions.
Plus if they’re doing sampling, I doubt they want the sample covered in oil.
What surprises me is no way to carry the bucket away afterward; You would have to put your hand over the bucket, in the steam. Gloved or not, it does not seem very safe.
If it really is just getting the lava down to boiling water temperature, or even a bit higher, that thin metal handle will dissipate that heat pretty quickly. A glove should be fine.
Is that an OSHA approved hand over the face to keep from breathing the poisonous gas?
I’m kind of surprised it’s not hot enough to boil off all the water in that little bucket pretty quickly, bit obviously it isn’t.
I’m no lavatorial expert, but I’d guess the thermal conductivity of lava is relatively low. The high temp and high mass will keep it warm for a while, but water has a pretty high conductivity and capacity on its own. The agitation is distributing the heat too, well beyond the regular convection rate.
I would guess.
I’m not thinking that “lavatorial” is the correct word.
That conjures “lavatory”, which is something different.
For the science, yeah, more than enough water to cool the lava.
That’s just my experience. If someone does the math, I’ll love them.
If you replace the lava* with shit, the phrase still makes sense and is accurate
Do what math? I honestly don’t know what you guy’s actually expect it to look like, so I don’t know where to start explaining.
Heat capacity of lava per degree Celsius per unit of mass
Multiplied by temperature differential vs ambient, multiplied by mass = total extra heat energy
Then you calculate the sum of heat capacity multiplied by mass for lava and for water, and calculate from that how many degrees above ambient the two masses will land at when combined as the extra energy above is divided over both (assuming water starts at ambient temp)
It won’t be exact because heat capacity varies in materials as temperature changes, both steam and solidification of lava (state change) will contribute significantly, but it’s a decent first estimate
Okay. Then they add more and it will boil quickly. I guess the question boiles (huehue) down to how much water you can turn into stream per amount of lava or the inverse, how much lava you can cool down per amount of water.
The phase change from liquid water to stream will, by the way, not just contribute significantly but be by far the majority of energy needed. Simply heating water up, ignoring the phase change and changes of the heat capacity, with the same energy as it takes to go from liquid to gas (2257 kJ/kg) would result in a temperature rise of… dT = 2257 kJ/kg / 4.2 kJ/(kg*K) = 537 K
Assuming enough water that most of it doesn’t boil, then my math would still check out, but yeah, any substantial amount of boiling forces you do do the math in multiple steps to handle that
Seriously? The lava in water math.
It’s high school stuff if you bother to look up the specific heat and make some reasonable guesses.
It’s masters degree in thermal fluids engineering math
deleted by creator
No it’s not. Google specific heat of lava. Shit’s been done already.
And not just for academics. Even Randall Monroe. He’s smart, but he’s not an academic.
deleted by creator
Mate, I model thermal processes for a living. The question is: What is the question? What to calculate? What expectations are there to (dis)proof?
Bruh. Someone else on this thread has already clarified to you the easy and what I was expecting question: what happens to the water and lava in the water bucket.
You already answered that question in this thread.
deleted by creator
I really have no idea but my guess was the heat.
Was gunna say, looks like he’s looting the lava more than doing a carefully controlled scientific procedure.
He might just be shielding his face from the heat. That said, I saw a little plant that almost survived the lava flow, and it was much closer than he was, so idk.
Normally when I see geologists standing around lava they have masks on, so I’d assume he has one under whatever he’s got on his face. Either that or maybe he was getting a couple quick scoops and wasn’t going to be standing around long enough for a mask to make a huge difference.
OSHA completely missed the large ripped hole in the suit by his thigh…
That was from the last guy who did this job and died under mysterious circumstances. Nothing to worry about.
Could also be oil instead of water. I know they use oil to cool off blacksmithing stuff.
I’m a software engineer, not a physicist, but I’m not sure that makes sense for this. Heat does transfer much more quickly in oil than water, so it can cool something off more quickly, but oil can also get way hotter than water. That little bucket isn’t going to hold enough for a lot of thermal mass, so it’s pretty quickly going to get as hot as the lava (or as close as oil can get). Water turns to stream and boils off, so kind of caps the temp under normal conditions.
Plus if they’re doing sampling, I doubt they want the sample covered in oil.
It is water:
https://volcano.oregonstate.edu/collecting-sample
Though for steel forging, oil is used depending on how fast they need to cool it down between forging steps.
https://www.americanbladesmith.org/community/heat-treating-101/quenching-oil/
I don’t approve of steel forging, steel customers deserve to know when they aren’t getting the real thing.
What surprises me is no way to carry the bucket away afterward; You would have to put your hand over the bucket, in the steam. Gloved or not, it does not seem very safe.
If it really is just getting the lava down to boiling water temperature, or even a bit higher, that thin metal handle will dissipate that heat pretty quickly. A glove should be fine.