• Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    If you answered yes to both

    I answered no to both.

    Do you want to give Trump more voters?

    The only argument any centrist has when they move to the right like they all want to.

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      So you don’t believe they need the popular vote to win and you believe that the Republicans would be better at defending trans rights?

      • jerkface@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        I don’t accept that defending trans SAFETY is a losing election issue.

        • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Have you spent any time in right wing spaces, or listened to the new generation describing themselves as “classical liberals”. They’re swing voters and it’s pretty important to them.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Have you spent any time in right wing spaces

            Yes, let’s just do everything we can to abandon every last minority centrists consider expendable in order to peel off a total of zero votes from fascists.

            They’re not going to vote for you, no matter how many vulnerable minorities you throw under the bus. You’ve had fucking decades to figure this out, and it looks like you’re just throwing people under the bus because you like the thumping sounds.

            • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              All powerful me who you can attack rather than try to convince. A microcosm for your general approach of yelling. Your goals and demands, kept vague at best.

              I doubt you even know what you’re asking for.

              There’s a timeline to installing trans rights, it requires adjustments to the Supreme Court.

              But I’m aware that you’re not thinking that far ahead in a planned or tactical manner, and your plans are: be loud, make demands, be radical.

              But you’ve not actually outlined much more than that, so there’s nothing to debate with you.

              Good day, good luck with your imaginary bus, and me as the all powerful deity controlling who gets pushed under.

              No idea what you’re on about unfortunately, but you seem very vocal about whatever it is.

              [Edit: No, I get it, you want to create a polemic against Trump’s obvious lies, treating them as if they’re worth addressing rather than let him melt under the scrutiny of the general population https://lemmy.kya.moe/imgproxy?src=i.redd.it%2fm2pzcfjk77md1.png… But that’s not necessary. Let’s not make his lies into a false balance situation. Just let him look foolish instead.]

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                There’s a timeline to installing trans rights,

                Still settin’ timeframes.

                But I’m aware that you’re not thinking that far ahead in a planned or tactical manner, and your plans are: be loud, make demands, be radical.

                I’m aware that you’re stalling until the party can abandon trans people like it abandoned undocumented immigrants.

                • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I’m not setting timeframes, you literally can’t change Supreme Court judges during an election. You don’t even understand the basics of how rights or the systems involved work.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    I’m not setting timeframes, you literally can’t change Supreme Court judges during an election.

                    And until then, we can’t acknowledge openly as a party that trans people are worth protecting. Makes sense.

        • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          It is when that’s considered woke and you’ve got a ton of your own electors that have been brainwashed into thinking woke bad

            • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              If your goal is to not let the Republicans win? Just look at what the Democrats at the various levels of government are actually doing even though they never make it a point to talk about it while they’re campaigning and understand that there’s a fucking good reason why they don’t.

              Hell, you need to be pretty self centered to believe that trans people are the only repressed people that don’t get talked about but still benefit from having the Democrats in power vs the Republicans. They can’t cover every single group.

              • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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                2 months ago

                If your goal is to not let the Republicans win?

                A. The goal should be to achieve progress, not win elections

                B. That involves making the case for that progress, not capitulating to popular opinion that’s been fabricated by conservative media

                But that’s only if you’re not operating on a dialectical-materialist political analysis, because if you were you’d understand that real progress can’t be made through simple electoral victories. Abandoning minority protections in exchange for electoral power is how America has operated since its founding.

                • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 months ago

                  Yeah the goal is to achieve progress and you won’t do that by alienating a big part of the electorate to cater the minority of the 1% of the population that is trans and doesn’t understand that open support for their cause might lead to a Republican government instead, which would be worse for them and for progress in general.

                  • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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                    2 months ago

                    “A big part of the electorate” doesn’t care one way or the other about trans rights. All throughout centrist apologists have been saying “most people don’t care about Palestine enough to affect their vote”, they just want kitchen table progress. But somehow when the issue is trans rights, you people think it’s some vote-defining issue that will sink the election if there’s a single trans speaker in a weeklong convention.

                    Just the same old fucking white moderates doing the white moderate things King talked about.

                  • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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                    2 months ago

                    cater the minority of the 1% of the population that is tens and doesn’t understand that open support for their cause might lead to a Republican instead

                    I’m sorry, their ““cause””? Is “we have a right to exist” the ‘cause’ you consider to be the thing alienating ‘a big part of the electorate’?

                    Why are you here? Go back to reddit, jesus christ.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I believe that the popular vote isn’t sufficient to win, as it wasn’t when Clinton lost with the popular vote.

        I believe Democrats won’t protect trans rights, either.

        You’ve chosen to be dishonest as fuck about my positions.

        • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          She didn’t get the popular vote where it mattered, popular vote is still what is needed

          So you think it’s just as likely they won’t protect trans right as it is likely the Republicans won’t? Because that was the question.

          Looking at Democrat’s States vs Republican States it’s pretty clear you’re wrong about that second part.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            She didn’t get the popular vote where it mattered, popular vote is still what is needed

            Trump won without it.

            So you think it’s just as likely they won’t protect trans right as it is likely the Republicans won’t?

            I don’t trust either of them at all on this issue. I think they’re just itching to throw another vulnerable minority under the bus like they did with the undocumented immigrants you’re using Republican talking points about.

            • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Republicans do bad thing

              Democrats try but fail to completely stop it

              “Why did Democrats do this bad thing??” - Ensign_Crab

              Every time without fail, it’s a classic

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                How does adopting Republican border policy count as trying and failing to stop Republican policy?

                Oh wait, you don’t care. You’re just happy they moved to the right.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    If they nominated Trump, you’d expect everyone to believe that he was the most progressive candidate ever.

            • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              Again, she didn’t get the popular vote WHERE IT MATTERED, first past the post still requires popular vote, just not at a national level.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Again, she didn’t get the popular vote WHERE IT MATTERED

                That wasn’t the question I initially answered, is it?