he faced online criticism for equating desperation with resilience—the original post has since been deleted but was retweeted by Danny Thompson, Director of Technology at This Dot Labs.
I am surprised it’s called “America’s celebrated work ethic” - from my (Dutch) perspective, it’s notoriously terribly exploitative and bordering on dystopian for many. Is it true that people celebrate American work practices?!
Methinks perhaps the International Business Times may value capitalism over quality of life.
Methinks perhaps the International Business Times may value capitalism over quality of life.
I think capitalism tends to be valued over life in general.
I think they especially value the poor people paid to spam their sites around until their user gets banned and they make a new one and continue.
Seriously, ibtimes spams Lemmy like crazy.
A lot of my fellow Americans celebrate their work ethic. You have no idea how many times people, even people on sites like this one, brag about how hard and how many hours they work. I never got it. The minute that clocked turns five, I’m out the door.
Having lived and worked in Britain which also has the very same “work hard” fetish, I’ve always felt that was just celebrating the very opposite of efficiency:
- A person in a quarry breaking stone with a small hammer 12h a day is working hard.
- A person in a quarry breaking stone with a pneumatic drill 2h a day is working far less hard.
Guess which of the two produces more gravel at the end of each day…
In many industries “hours worked” might be vastly easier to measure for each worker than their productivity (plus under bad management highly productive workers get trottled down by the rest and things like bad project planning), but “hours worked” is in no way form or shape the desired product of employing somebody unless what we’re talking about is a Human Resources company billing those hours to a client.
The only reason I willingly do extra hours is when I’m coding and in a flow state, but at that point time ceases to exist. I get sucked back periodically cuz tech job, but my work is really good about letting us flex our time as long as we hit 40.
“Look how hard I’m punching myself! It took me a lot of practice to punch myself this hard! Jealous?”
I’ve legit told my present supervisor that literally works 14 hour days by choice and brags about it that I pity her for it.
That’s what it feels like when they brag about it. If you want to brag about how hard you worked and how long you took building a fence around your back yard, I will be impressed. If you want to brag about how hard you worked and how long you took filling out reports or whatever, I could not care less. If anything, you have my pity for thinking that’s something to brag about.
I had a boss once who liked brag about never taking PTO, as if it were a positive thing. To me that just means your priorities are ass backwards.
Unwordly Americans like to pretend people think of the US as the best country in the world. They think this because they have never spoken to someone from outside the US except for the Mexicans they persecute, so they have an empty canvas to fill with all kinds of wild notions.
Politicians are generally worldly enough to know it’s not true, but that doesn’t win elections.
I suspect the opinion about America and American ways of doing things has also gone down a lot in other developed nations in the last few decades.
The prosperous America of the 50s where a single blue collar salary was enough for a family of 5, a good house, a good car and even various appliances was well worthy of envy, but nowadays that’s all gone and even the improvements on that (which were mainly social, such as more independence for women and less racism - as that 50s “prosperity” was mainly for whites) have been going back of late or at least not going forward quite as fast as in most other developed nations (especially Europe) plus it turns out that the Equality only along racial and gender lines and never along Economic lines, which is the type promoted by Neolibs, just yielded equal poverty for the 99%.
There is no need at all to go back on Economic Equality to go forward on Social Equality, but that’s what was done by 4 decades of Neoliberalism (and, worse, it was then followed by starting to go back on Social Equality as the other Far-Right rose), so now the American Way is not something worthy of envy for anybody in a Developed Nation, quite independently of one’s gender, race or sexual orientation.
I once got in an argument with a coworker that it is unacceptable to choose work over being a parent, in that it’s not enough to just work and bring money home, but you have to actually spend quality time with your children. She got very upset that I was critical of “hard workers” that “put food on the table.”
Like no, I’m sorry. Your family needs more than money.
Anyways, her opinion is the dominant opinion in the USA. I’m in the minority.
propaganda that you have to work 6 days a week without holidays and unpaid overtime or your work ethic is bad
Is it true that people celebrate American work practices?!
Nope! Seems like a dystopian nightmare to my Swedish eyes.
In some countries they do, in others they don’t.
From my own experience in Software Development, in England they definitelly do, whilst in Portugal they kinda do mainly because management culture is so horribly, horribly bad and people do not naturally tend to be organised and properly prepare, so overruns and not taking in account risks of problems and delays in time estimates are all the norm (so overwork is not driven by a “work hard” culture like in England but by constant fuckups leading to overwork leading to even worse fuckups because tired people make even more mistakes)
(Mind you, the management culture in England is hardly good, but it’s still better than in Portugal).
On the other had, I’ve also worked in The Netherlands were I’ve only ever once seen a work culture similar to the US, in a small web-development company (and I killed that crap in the projects I was involved in, to great satisfaction of the junior devs) and as half of my career there was as a freelancer, I’ve worked there in maybe 5 or 6 different places in 8 years so I saw more work environments than normal.
One experience that stuck with me in The Netherlands was working for a bank and being still there at 6:05 PM on a Friday by my own initiative to finish something and the project manager coming over and literally telling me “Go home, you’re not supposed to be here” even against my own insistence that I just wanted to finish something. I’ve worked in or for Finance at one time or another in all those countries and what’s typical in that industry elsewhere is the exact opposite of what happened to me in The Netherlands.
I all fairness and having worked in The Netherland, Britain and Portugal, the Dutch work ethic in almost all places I worked there was miles ahead of that in the other countries and that was something which got reflected in their vastly superior productivity (at least in Software Development).
From what I’ve read and actual Americans I’ve met over the years, that work ethic is pretty much in a different universe compared to the US.
I reckon it starts with the idea in The Netherlands that a manager that has lots of people still working around after 6 PM is a bad manager (who can’t plan properly hence their time estimates or resourcing are frequently wrong hence the need for overtime) which is almost the opposite of those other countries were a manager who has lots of people still working around after 6 PM is considered a good manager because they make their employees “work hard”.
Management in The Netherlands tends to be results-driven (i.e. more results delivered), whilst in the other places it’s work-driven (i.e. more work done) which you can see illustrated pretty well in the British tendency to celebrate “working hard”, and if you think about it work-driven metrics promoted the very opposite of efficiency.
I sure as hell don’t. I feel like I have no time for anything. I have only two weeks vacation a year. I have sick leave but can only use 3 days at a time without having a doctors note. I am considered having a good job for even having those “benefits”.
Many of us pretend to, in the hopes of advancement
Many drink the Kool-Aid in an attempt to pretend they like their exploitation, giving their mind, body, and soul to profiteers who wouldn’t spend a nickel to put you out if you were on fire.
Worse, the ones that fully accept the madness proudly, the ones that internalize the toxic your workplace productivity is your life mindset, often end up being the low level management arbiters demanding incoming hires at the very least pretend to do the same, even if they’re screaming inside, hi!
Is it true that people celebrate American work practices?!
Yes. Those people are called conservatives.
Ah Linkedin, the social network of sociopaths.
I remember a time when everyone was told “you need a linkedin profile, you need to network”
now? no way in hell. that site is purely made of two groups. execs who think their shit don’t stink, and unemployed wannabe execs who will gladly eat said shit.
You don’t use linkedin to read the social media posts. Which are terrible. You use it to see jobs and maintain network connections.
And to get tons of unsolicited connection requests from random head hunters.
I had a headhunter complain to me on LinkedIn about ignoring their connection request, as if I owe them something. They really are unhinged sometimes.
I had one complain that I was being unreasonable with the salary I wanted for frelanance/contract positions, this was just before I got a job at a consulting firm, I checked my charge out rate and it’s twice what I asked for, probably more now.
I ghost them now if they’re overly pushy or give off vibes. I avoid the feed as well, just absolutely unhinged.
You get the same from chuggers (people asking on the street for “Charity”) and cold-callers.
I’ve actually pretty much had to say “No! My time is my time and you’re not entitled to any of it. You’re also not entitled to any politness if, after I signalled my desinterest, you kept pushing and the fact that it’s your job makes it worse because that means you’re doing it to make money”
Yeap, they are getting a bit too aggressive with their messages.
I constantly get “great 1 year opportunities”… as if I would leave a full time permanent position I like for a 1 year term in some unknown company
I had that too, but it was obvious scammer also
Small price to pay, imo. When my job was forcing everyone back into the office in 2021 I just picked out one of the headhunters who contacted me on linkedin, got an offer for a remote position with better pay, and brought it to my employer to get a raise and the go-ahead to keep working remotely. I’ll suffer the occasional spam email for the knowledge that I have options for another job lined up pretty much whenever.
There are also bogus job postings that are trying to prey on you. Not exactly sure why. But it’s low.
That’s how I got a 6 figure salary lol
I have a 6 figure salary and never used LinkedIn. I’ve changed jobs 3 times in the last 5 years.
maintain network connections.
the only thing we use Linkedin for, but Linkedin cockblocks it with premium subscription.
that site is purely made of two groups. execs who think their shit don’t stink, and unemployed wannabe execs who will gladly eat said shit.
Me, who only uses linkedIn to get a job: *doesn’t exist*
They didn’t say you were eager about it!
you forgot the third type: Desperate people who will suck anyone’s balls so they can afford to not starve to death
edit: like I do
Surely there’s not much nutrition in sucking balls… Even if you suck dick, you’d have to go from dick to dick like a hummingbird to live off it…
I opened this post thinking the woman in question was some high level C suite worker. Nope she was supposedly working in fast food. This is beyond dystopian. You mean to tell me this fucker walked in a fast food place saw a toddler and an infant behind the counter, recognized that the mom must have just given birth and thought “Yup this is inspiring.” I’m honestly speechless. This might be one of the few instances I’ve ever seen where everyone responding is on the same page with their reaction and rage.
Not to mention this interaction happened ON MOTHERS DAY
Christ on sale, that makes this infinitely worse.
I once went to work at a pizza place. I was the prep/opener and would be there in the morning for 2 - 3 hours before anyone else came in or their were customers. I was sick but didn’t realize it–I had been working for hours but had not yet spoken once that day. I finally opened up and tried to greet the first customer, and basically something sounding like a stepped on frog came out. This lady goes “OH MY GOD I AM GOING TO KEEP COMING BACK HERE JUST BECAUSE OF YOU!” and I’m thinking to myself that I couldn’t understand why you would want food from a sick person.
Inspirational how that worker is forced to take their infant through a hazardous kitchen and expose them to coughing wheezing members of the public.
Corporate “culture” is a plague.
Its jargon is designed to encourage self-enslavement and normalize sociopathic behavior.
Whenever I see people promoting ‘hustle culture’ on TV, social media or books, I feel a strong urge to crush their skull with a big wrench. They are predators out to make money by fueling the insecurity of regular people.
predators out to make money by fueling the insecurity of regular people.
That’s marketing in a nutshell.
Yeah, it’s sick. I’ve always been amazed by how many people actually believe the company line and feel intense loyalty.
Once worked at a place that required everyone to show up 1.5 hours early to watch a video from the CEO cheerleading about “rationalizing” plants. Rationalizing was code for layoffs. Then they gave us buttons to wear about it. I tossed the first one in the urinal, real proud that there was a pile of them at the end of the day.
I think it’s normal and human to appreciate hard work and dedication. That drive makes us survive. Then it gets used as bait, the hook goes in, and people misplace that drive onto something inhuman. I guess it’s a successful strategy if you’re a no soul snake.
Are we sure this isn’t Poe’s Law in effect? This post reads like a troll that people have taken seriously.
IDK this looks like standard LinkedIn crap, I believe it genuine
A tone-deaf oligarch is emotionally stirred…
It’s disturbing to hear that there are people like this CEO who think this way. But it’s important to share such news. Thank you for posting this.
I feel bad for that working mother - as I do for so many struggling people.
You’re going to be disturbed quite a lot. There are a lot of CEOs like that out there. For example, Jeff Bozos thinks that the Amazon warehouse workers are lazy. These sociopaths would be crying with joy if an employee died in the process of making them an additional fifty bucks of profit.
I mostly feel bad for the baby. I hope the dad is able to create the bonding that a newborn requires
Yeah, it’s better than starving to death or being evicted, but this is certainly not ideal for a newborn. It’s not the mom’s fault, but it still has an effect.
Queue the Shrek Gingerbread Man “You’re a mmonster!”
Yeah, dude. Send that woman home and give her parental leave! WTF!
