• 37 Posts
  • 364 Comments
Joined 2 months ago
cake
Cake day: July 25th, 2024

help-circle













  • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldMtovegan@lemmy.worldThat is not vegan.
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    3 days ago

    Regarding your last paragraph, I broadly agree. I’ve said before that I could see this becoming a weird wedge issue in the far future where humans have finally reached a broad consensus against exploiting mammals, birds, fish, etc. for food but where maybe now the main ethical cause is against the exploitation of insects. And within those who oppose insect exploitation, you hypothetically have a split over whether the line is at animals or whether it’s at having a CNS.

    For right now, I think it’s very low on the list of priorities because “Does a cheeseburger justify perpetuating unimaginable suffering on an unfathomable scale? Discuss, and if you say ‘no’, then you’re an extremist weirdo.” is where the Overton window is at right now. Nonetheless, going around telling a major newspaper to write a human interest story on you advocating the position that eating animals is vegan unambiguously deserves pushback.


  • Yes, but you’d have to be really strict about the word “consenting”. Human breast milk is vegan as long as it’s given freely with consent and not as a form of exploitation, and so we could probably engineer a convoluted scenario where human meat is technically vegan. Let’s run through some possible ones with the understanding that all of it is still nasty as fuck, unethical in every circumstance that could plausibly happen in the real world, and will probably give you a prion disease:

    • Killing and eating someone without their consent. Obviously unethical and obviously not vegan; moving on.
    • Finding and eating an already-dead body. Desecrating a corpse is – I think – widely considered a very cruel act toward a person even if they’re no longer alive, and moreover, it would inflict immense psychological suffering on those close to that person that their family member or friend was dismembered to be eaten.
    • Getting consent to eat them after they die. I think this is probably the closest you could physically get to giving Carl from Llamas with Hats a vegan diet. First, the person would need to offer consent, and I think this would go beyond traditional contract law, requiring robust, multifaceted mediation from psychiatric professionals as well as a judge. “Are you sure you want to do this, and are you sure you’re in the right state of mind to consent to something like this?” Next, both death and how they’re eaten would have to be strictly on the terms of the one being eaten: their time, their method, their circumstance. If they want to back out at the last minute, that’s their prerogative. And lastly, for such an extreme circumstance, I think it should be the case that you can’t promise anything at all in exchange, and it must not be from any person who has tangible power over the lives of the person being eaten or someone very close to the person being eaten. Essentially trying to limit the possibility of a quid pro quo. Even with this broad list of protections, there are almost assuredly factors I’m not properly accounting for.

    TL;DR: Not in the real world, no.


  • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldMtovegan@lemmy.worldThat is not vegan.
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    edit-2
    3 days ago

    The original article. Bivalves’ nervous systems can be summarized as follows:

    The central nervous system (CNS) of bivalves is bilaterally symmetrical, of ganglion type. The nervous system consists of aggregations of nerve cells arranged into a chain of paired, sequentially connected ganglia. The paired ganglia are connected via commissures to each other and via connectives to neighboring ganglia. There are three pairs of ganglia in the nervous system of bivalves of the subclass Autobranchia: cerebro-pleural (cerebral), pedal, and visceral (viscero-parietal). The pedal and visceral ganglia communicate with the cerebro-pleural ganglia via the cerebro-pedal and cerebro(pleuro)-visceral connectives, which makes such a nervous system tetraneurous. The major difference between bivalves and other classes of mollusks is the reduction of the head region and, as a result, the absence of some structures: bivalves lack buccal ganglia like those in gastropods, while the cerebral ganglia merge with the pleural ones at the later stages of embryogenesis. The simplification of the nervous system in bivalves is suggested to be a consequence of a slow-moving lifestyle due to the filter-feeding on substrate.

    It’s first and foremost incorrect to call yourself vegan if you eat oysters; the commonly accepted definition by the Vegan Society is just objectively contravened here. But semantics aside, as noted in the article, the question becomes “is there something wrong with it?” I definitely think there is. Bivalves are still shown to proactively avoid noxious stimuli in the way a more developed nervous system might, and while the existing research is too sparse to definitively call it “pain”, this feels like yet another step in a long, storied history where humans decided animals didn’t feel pain until researchers stepped in and found out yes, they definitely do (see, e.g., fish). It’s easy not to eat them, and it’s pretty ridiculous to treat the waiting period for more robust scientific literature as a “grace period” instead of something that should be treated with caution. Getting it out of the way, because it’s often presented in bad faith, the whole “plant pain” argument is absurd on its face, both because a basic understanding of entropy still means veganism would be the way to go even taking that asinine premise at face value (vastly more plants per calorie for meat than simply via directly eating plants), and more importantly, plants lack a nervous system at all. They don’t feel pain, and the argument exists 5% to be sincerely believed by nutjobs and 95% to soothe cognitive dissonance felt by people who pay to have animals feel pain.




  • Yeah, right? Like curry is extremely yummy. “Oh no, there might be curry made in the kitchen – maybe possibly I don’t know; that’s the only Indian food I know because I’m willfully ignorant to other cultures – made with the use of soothing, aromatic herbs instead of the lingering, day-old stench of the shittiest, greasiest, soggiest, most pathetic fast food hamberders in the world.”

    The Biden administration probably had to wash the smell of Trump’s greasy McDonald’s shits out of the Oval Office.