https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
For those who want to learn more about the possible origin of memes like this
Is there anyone remaining who doesn’t know after the million posts about tankies?
800 years of russian state imperialism isnt enough to convince some people that the rest of Eastern Europe has truly had enough of one of their own imposing their big brother geopolitics on the rest of them. Every shitty empire has their MO, for russia, its always been a game of lies, deceit, and muddying the waters of truth. The guy in the middle is someone whos been drinking water from a poisoned well somewhere.
Why does the compromise guy have a hammer and sickle on him? Is it because these countries were formally part of the USSR?
There are online self-proclaimed leftists who simp for the totalitarian Soviet regime, and often for China as well. The slang term for them is ‘tankies’. Generally speaking, they’re the ones you see online spreading the “Ukraine has to compromise for Russia’s Legitimate Security Concerns!” The hammer-and-sickle is there to represent them.
It’s very bizarre, considering that most leftists I know, even the ones I butt heads with, recognize that Putin’s Russia is an imperialist and fascist state. But no one has ever accused tankies of being consistent.
Don’t worry, some tankie will be along to correct you that Russia doesn’t meet the exact textbook definition of Fascism, so it is actually a utopia.
My favorite incorrect definition for tankies is, they dont actually like communism, they just like tanks.
They like “dictatorships of the proletariat,” and if they think that is given to them by Daddy Big Boots, then theyll simp for him hard as they can.
Absolutely loving the pushback against their shit here on .world, it was getting bleak there for a minute…
Yeah. Tankies in most places are absolutely inconsequential, but they’re very prominent on the Fediverse. It’s good to push back against the poisonous parts of their ideology (like ‘Imperialism is good if it’s a capitalist state that’s not part of the West doing it’).
Would hate to see that kind of vile fascist shit normalized on here.
…in the most verbose way possible, with bonus points for referencing people out of context, cherrypicking their worst takes, or just deferring to lunatics in a ghish gallop too exhausting to be worth challenging.
Today were can clearly see that, communism was always a red herring. Tankies during cold war and tankies today (that love to dress in American flags), were always about supporting of totalitarian regimes.
The hammer and sickle is to support USSR.
Tankie is a special sort of communist. Doesn’t seem fair to paint all communists as tankies.
Tankie is just facist wearing red instead of brown. Leave communism out of it.
Seems pretty fair to me. Socialism and communism are inherently totalitarian.
Right when bad things happen under capitalism it’s just the profit motive
Bad things don’t happen under capitalism.
Bitch, bad things are happening RIGHT NOW under capitalism wtfdym
“Capitalism is when everyone just has a good time”
- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations
fucking what
Definitely not imo, if we are talking about the ideology. Many socialist/communist countries have been totalitarian though, so there’s a big divide between the ideological basis and goals and what has ended up happening.
Sort of? Vanguardism is inherently totalitarian, for example. The core idea is that the vanguard know better than the poor proles what’s good for them (Maoism is basically vanguardism). Stalinism is quite obviously and clearly totalitarian, putting rapid “strong” decision-making for the goal of rapid economic development above everything.
There are more democratic and equal forms of socialism, like Democratic socialism, syndicalism, mutualism (if you accept anarchists as part of the umbrella) and so on.
My core point is that socialism can be totalitarian or not depending on the actual ideology inside the big varied umbrella term.
Well put. I just meant more that socialism and communism doesn’t have to be totalitarian, ideologically a lot of the views inside those can be close to anarchism. The real life examples of socialist and communist states we’ve had (the thing people think of often when they think of socialism and communism) have just been examples of it either having been a totalitarian form of it or have devolved to totalitarianism (depending a bit on the interpretation, but that’s a really heave topic).
Anarchism is an inherently socialist and communist ideology.
Anarchism in short: heirarchy should be abolished
Socialism: workers should own the means of production. Being forced into wage labor is a form of heirarchy
Communism: a stateless (hierarchical structure), classless (social heirarchy), moneyless (a system of power that easily lends itself to hierarchical means) society.
One way to look at anarchism is a description of the way to realize communism, and continue past it into a more egalitarian social structure. Nobody has successfully realized communism for an extended period of time, but there are/have been projects that were well on their way. The zapatistas, CNT-FAI, and rojava come to mind. We’re lead to view the USSR and China (for example) as socialist/Communist because associating those places with the word understandably puts people off of the idea. Their insistence that they are socialist/communist doesn’t help that either. They never really met the mark imo
The whole point of these ideologies is a totalitarian regime.
As someone above said it well, it depends. The whole of socialism and communism though, no.
OP thinks the west should continue to send weapons to Ukraine until Russia pulls out of all former Ukrainian territory, and putin is deposed and sent to the hague, and Russia is balkanized.
Most communists want it to end as soon as possible, with the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine currently occupied by Russia remaining either independent or in Russia if they vote that way.
This is usually misconstrued as supporting Russia.
Ah, so you were in favor of the initial peace plan proposed by Zelenskyy at the start of the invasion?
with the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining either independent or in Russia if they vote that way.
… and what about the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining part of Ukraine? Is that not an option? Does democracy only count if it benefits Russian interests?
This is usually misconstrued as supporting Russia.
No, it’s simply recognizing the Motte-And-Bailey style arguments put forth by red fash. It’s the same pattern as the alt-right.
and what about the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining part of Ukraine?
This could be an option but what the cost? You all couch generals understand tha not only Russian ppl but Ukranians lifes are being destroyed?
Do you undeestand that your option is to the deaths and war crimes keep on going right? Retaken these territories is almost free for you but not for Ucranians.
Also, no Communist I know defends Putin, Russia is an imperialist scum as US, UK and France that are using Ukraine as their war table.
Ah, so you were in favor of the initial peace plan proposed by Zelenskyy at the start of the invasion?
I’m not sure which instance you’re talking about.
Do you mean the one in March 2022 that was torpedoed by Boris Johnson, resulting in Zelenskyy adding such realistic conditions as Putin stepping down before talks can begin after the US/UK gave greater assurances of support.
But yes, I was in favor of that peace. If you want to go back further, we could have avoided the whole civil war if the US didn’t back a coup, and it could have been smothered in the cradle if the right were purged from the parliament and army in 2014 or any time after, it could have ended without an invasion if Minsk II was simply enforced.
… and what about the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining part of Ukraine? Is that not an option?
The russian-speaking parts of Ukraine are occupied by Russia. To change this would require a longer war and more death, all to annex regions that already voted once to join Russia after nearly a decade of civil war.
Given what was going on during the civil war, even if Russia unilaterally abandoned the territory, there would not be an end to the destruction.
“If the US didn’t back a coup”
“already voted once to join Russia”
lmao
And you wonder why no one takes you lot seriously.
Putin is genociding Ukraine.
stop supporting this, thanks.
Do you mean the one in March 2022 that was torpedoed by Boris Johnson
This is incorrect. It was torpedoed by Ukrainians finding out about the Bucha massacre about a week earlier.
if Minsk II was simply enforced.
Who should have “enforced” Russia to move their soldiers out of Donbas and how?
What is this cicil war you keep talking about?
Russian-backed separatists in the Donbass.
The one in Ukraine following Maidan, from 2014 until the invasion.
The invasion started in 2014. It was not an organic movement.
I mean you’re not wrong that it wasn’t organic beyond a brief moment near the start of Maidan, before right-wing paramilitaries started sniping cops and massacring civilians and “volunteers” started showing up from both sides, but calling the civil war an invasion seems disingenuous.
Not that that justifies either side supporting right-wing militias in Ukraine.
You sound like a nazi supporter in 1939 supporting the annexation of the sudetenland. What do you mean the nazis should pull out of the formerly czech territories? I haven’t heard the russian government give any reason they should be there, that the nazis didn’t give.
Hot take, Tankies aren’t as bad as Zionists, and I know which group there’s more of, and has more influence and power.
Both seem to be championing nazi rhetorics and methods.
One is doing that on a segment of a niche internet forum, and the other is doing that on millions of humans. Like I said, I know which ones worse. Zionists get people killed. Tankies yell about things that already happened.
Tankies yell about things that already happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930–1933
Sometimes they don’t talk about things that happened.
Is that worse than creating conditions to prolong ongoing genocide though?
First of all I AM NOT DEFENDING ZIONISTS.
However, the Soviet Famine killed between 5.7 and 8.7 million people and the population of Gaza and the west bank is only ~5 million, so the famine might have been worse, but no one wins when you play the suffering Olympics.
Its more power mapping than suffering Olympics. Tankies can only argue to justify things, there are no tankies in control of countries or influencing countries budgets and agendas. There are Zionists that control countries with massive militaries though. There are zionists in media influencing millions daily. You can be mad at tankies for defending things but they had no hand in perpetuating them, you cannot say the same of Zionists. Why spend time being mad at groups that don’t influence anything?
Why spend time being mad at groups that don’t influence anything?
They influence discourse on here, and if “The kulaks deserved it and the deportation of the Crimean Tatars was holsum” becomes normalized, I sure as shit ain’t sticking around any more than I would stick around someplace where Nazis are normalized.
Spreading fascist talking points in an effort to discourage voters in the West from sending aid to Ukraine also has a very real effect.
Tankies are as bad. They’re just less powerful.
At least since the fall of the SovUnion
And neither of them are as bad as 1940s Nazis. And those aren’t as bad Maoists. A rotten apple is a rotten apple no matter the variety.
Cops are rotten apples, So are nonprofit universities that use massive endowments to essentially be for profit. No one would claim they’re just as detrimental to society as each other. One of the groups is clearly worse and it’s surprising how many people are refusing to engage with that idea. If you think Zionists arent getting people killed and Tankies are, I really don’t know what to tell you.
My friend, you are on a web platform specifically designed to engage in every conversation, including that one. The point everyone who replied to you is try to make is that you going into a conversation thread and sidetracking with no additional value has the same energy as saying “all lives matter” as a reply to black lives matter. No shit Sherlock, but you’re not doing any good by throwing in “but, zionists” to the conversation at hand.
Is that comparison not me engaging in the discussion? Or is it only engagement when you agree with it? Zionists are killing people, right now. Tankies exist mainly online and their numbers are bolstered by foreign troll farms and sock accounts trying to create division. So sorry I don’t want to buy into that outrage of people who scarcely exist.
You’re right, it’s engagement at the level of an “all lives matter” chud. I didn’t realize that was the level of thought you were intentionally going for. Congrats I guess?
Again. Zionists are killing people right now. Tankies are the most minor of minorities. If you think saying Zionists are worse than Tankies is like saying all lives matter you’re one of the kids Bush left behind, so congrats I guess.
You aren’t engaging in the discussion.
You are derailing it.
Smells of Putin Propaganda because Russia gets rightfully criticised.
Putin proganda props up tankies talking points to foster division and outrage, outrage like this meme. What does russia have to gain from my stance of ignore tankies because they only exist online while zionists sre influencing actual policy, war and death? You cant just call everything you dont like russian propaganda, but thats about as lazy as most response ive been getting.
It would have been more convincing had Ukraine not spent 2014-2022 pounding cities in the eastern Donbass.
The fact OP and all the liberals in this thread ignore on purpose.
To be fair Ukraine have said they intend to fight until the borders are back to pre-war which includes Crimea.
Compromise can be met with Crimea.
Edit: can someone who downvotes explain why you disagree?
About the only bit that could be compromised on. Crimea isn’t going to be retaken by an invasion force, unless the whole Russian military collapses in on itself.
However, I would note that effectively sieging Crimea is very viable considering the poor state of the Russian Navy in the Black Sea and Crimea’s reliance on supply from the rest of Russia. However, that would require most Ukrainian land taken during the initial invasion to be reclaimed first.
Yep most definitely, reclaiming the mainland is step one and no compromises should be made there. The decision on the remaining bloodshed and cost required to retake crimea from 2014 annexation can be evaluated at that point.
A properly supplied Ukraine could probably manage all that singlehandedly given what weve seen.
Crimea WAS the compromise. In 2014. The orange revolution was the compromise in 2004.
The disagreement is with the idea that compromise would even result in a real peace. The Russia would stop actively working to dismantle the Ukrainian state. It’s not even just Ukraine. Georgia was invaded in 2008.
At this point, it’s just appeasement. And appeasement doesn’t work.
