• Octagon9561@lemmy.ml
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    7 months ago

    Americans have some serious Stockholm syndrome if they believe voting for any of these candidates makes a meaningful difference when they are both war mongering fascists. The status quo can not be changed by voting but by anti-government protests forcing the current system to collapse.

    Besides Roe ended under Biden, not Trump. There have also been more deportations under Biden than under Trump so this vote Biden or else blackmail isn’t even based on facts. It’s like choosing between Himmler and Hitler.

    • doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      7 months ago

      Roe was ended by Trump-appointed judges whom Biden had no influence over.

      Blaming the president for the actions of the Supreme Court is asinine.

    • Nobsi@feddit.de
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      7 months ago

      Both sides bad mhhhhhkay?
      Get the fuck outta here, One side wants to uphold democracy and the other wants to bea adictatorship cult. And most bad things happening under biden are the result of 4 years of trump.

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        7 months ago

        Both sides are bad, yes. The fascists are far worse, of course, but it’s naive to think the DNC are some brave Democracy Defenders, when their sole interest is to uphold the rights and protections of Capital. Most of the bad things happening under Biden are actually because of Capitalism reaching an ever-later stage, Trump certainly made it worse but Biden isn’t making it better.

        Should leftists vote for Biden to prevent Trump? 100%, abstaining from voting or voting third party is a spoiler vote in America and would result in fascists winning. Should liberals pretend that Leftists are the problem because leftists are understandably upset that they don’t have anyone to actually vote for, while liberals and fascists get to gleefully vote for their preferred candidates? Absolutely not.

        • Nobsi@feddit.de
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          7 months ago

          Show me a functioning non capitalist society that is on the same or better level than the US, Germany, Finland, Spain, France… etc. i’ll wait.
          Stop being delusional.

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            7 months ago

            What “level?” Development? Quality of Life? Wealth? Wealth drives development, and development drives quality of life. If I took Cuba, or even EZLN, and compared it with, say, Somalia, the non-Capitalist countries win on all 3 accounts. You can cherry pick if you want, but ultimately development is a process and takes time. Development is a stage, if Cuba became Capitalist today it wouldn’t be as developed as the US overnight, that’s silly.

            Secondly, you’re assuming I want to replicate a currently existing country. That’s false. I want the US, Germany, Finland, Spain, and France, along with all other countries, to shift to collective ownership of the Means of Production. I don’t want to randomly reset a country to 0 progress and build up straight to Socialism, that’s absurd.

            The very premise of your question is false, as you’re relying on a snapshot in history and not actually analyzing the mechanics of collective ownership. It’s an utter non-argument.

            • Nobsi@feddit.de
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              7 months ago

              LMAO youre a tankie. No wonder youre delusional.
              Have fun in your dreams.

              • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                7 months ago

                How exactly am I a tankie? The EZLN is a Libertarian Socialist collective, I explicitly mentioned it to provide multiple examples that only share the fact that they are leftist in structure. I’m in favor of Democratic ownership and operation of the Means of Production by and for the Workers, rather than having a bunch of petite dictators a la Capitalism.

                Is the fact that you’re a landlord what drives you to be so immediately reactionary to anyone proposing we share ownership collectively?

                • Nobsi@feddit.de
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                  7 months ago

                  I want the US, Germany, Finland, Spain, and France, along with all other countries, to shift to collective ownership of the Means of Production

                  i cannot capitalize LMAO further but i would.
                  LEMAO
                  You are so far removed from reality i cant even

                  • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                    7 months ago

                    Do you have a point? I think worker co-operatives are pretty cool, Socialist structures. Workers are happier and the co-ops are more stable than regular Capitalist businesses.

                    What’s wrong with that? Is democratically controlling production worse than Capitalist ownership of Production? What’s wrong with wanting more democracy in developed and underdeveloped nations alike?

                    Genuinely. Throw me a bone, I think we can possibly come to an understanding.

      • Octagon9561@lemmy.ml
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        7 months ago

        What democracy are you talking about? All I see is a war mongering oligarchy. The problem isn’t with the president, it’s with the US itself.