Even in 2016 it was clear he was a con artist. He literally said in one of the debates that he wouldn’t accept the results of the election if he lost.
Cue 2020: shocked Pikachu face
He didn’t respect the results when he won. He saw that he lost the popular vote and cried about it for ages.
I think everyone expected him to cry fowl when he lost in 2020. I think being a little surprised that he’d go so far as to stage a violent coup is probably understandable.
Why are we acting like Jan 6th was the only logical reason to be against him by that point?
Have we just forgotten his presidency? There was already no excuses going into 2020, especially with the COVID deaths.
I can say that it was not the only reason. (After all, he did lose the 2020 election) In 2016, I voted for Trump. This was because my friends did too. I thought he was going to drain the swamp so to speak. He had very good slogans and populist policies that appealed to the masses. He made you feel seen.
This changed when he kept on with his attempted Muslim ban, rhetoric to lock people up, and name calling throughout the first three years. There were some bright spots, such as better finding to CBP and policy changes to alleviate our court system (still not perfect as one needs more resources in the court system too) The Trump administration actually engaged over in Central Asia which had a noticeable impact over there. My dad had pointed out that the Government was doing some good work not quite making it to the mainstream media. I noticed Britain leave the EU for questionable reasons because of the same forces. I read the Mueller Report on Russian interference in the 2016 election (and barely remember it four years later)
I thought that it was likely that the Russians colluded with the Republicans, but it could not be proven. And it could have remained that way if not for Trump’s first impeachment. Trump withheld aid to Ukraine in return for finding dirt on his political rival Joe Biden as well as trying to pin the election interference on Ukraine. This impeachment had a man I highly respect break from his own party and vote to convict for abuse of power. But he was the only one who would stand against the tide.
Three years in, I could be counted as a swing voter, favoring neither party. I had seen the Republican party pay lip service to Christian values and yet fail to have integrity. I had a mild dislike of Trump and was starting to think his policies were not implemented correctly. Then Covid happened
I lost my job, was chronically online, and listened to a lot of podcasts. Trump had a really bad messaging problem then. I thought he needed to throw his phone in the toilet and stay off of Twitter. He recommended hydroxycloroquine as a treatment which was kind of dumb. He didn’t support his governors when they would lock down states for public health and instead would berate my own governor for trying to save lives. The more extreme Michigan Republicans would compare her to Hitler (Godwin’s law at work) and Trump would engage with that. This mostly made me appreciate Governor Whitmer more as she was making good policy decisions.
A couple months go by and George Floyd was killed by police officers in Minneapolis. This was murder. People would be protesting the police brutality that pervades police departments everywhere. The police unions that let problematic officers go from one police department to another and spread their often racist policies. There were protests everywhere from DC to Seattle. While many conservatives will focus on the shit show that was CHAZ, I saw the one in DC. Especially on one morning when security services cleared the park for Donald J Trump to go across the street for a photo op. This photo op was front of a church where he held a Bible upside down. And in that moment, I saw the Trump presidency as a fake Christian presidency. It didn’t matter how pro-life he was or how many pastors endorsed him anymore. That ruined it forever for me.
The following months would only serve to cement that opinion as I saw him lay the groundwork for denying the election by discrediting mail in voting, especially as there was much more need of it than previous elections. I thought this was a stupid move as he would be undermining Democratic legitimacy. Little did I know, that was the point. We all know what happens next though. The election happens, Trump is defeated, launches over 50 lawsuits, wins one, and changes zero districts. He incites a riot at the Capitol. He spreads conspiracy theories. He blackmails a secretary of state. He gets impeached again and gets acquitted again.
But you know that part of the story
If you cry fowl you probably need to see a doctor to get your tear ducts checked out.
Or get busy making the next pollos hermanos
tear *ducks. Fixed that for you
I can’t believe I missed it.
Figuratively, though. It wouldn’t be difficult to imagine Trump squawking like a chicken and flapping his arms while turning in a tight circle when something truly upsetting to him occurred.
*Tear ducks
or the “russia, if you’re listening…”
Trump is openly saying that he’s going to be a dictator. Trump is the Republican election pick. If you vote Republican, you vote for Trump, you’re a shit bag faschie voting for fascism. Full stop.
I have long said the KKK traded their white hoods for red caps. Fuck the GOP.
I actually threw away my red Nike hat just to avoid the confusion. Fuck trump.
I’d like to remind everyone that some of us are shit people but haven’t and still don’t support Trump.
“Look, I might be a shit person, but even I have standards.”
all i can do is look at our country and let out a big sigh. what will it take for the US to better itself?
From what I see, Trump is indicative of a growing trend, generally by conservatives to bring religion and their beliefs into government.
Trump is more absolutist and authoritarian than many other political candidates that I have seen.
To my best understanding of the current climate of the people who support him, they want more authoritarian control over what other people do. Partly in an effort to make themselves more comfortable in their own social interactions with others. So their assumptions of things like, women have curves, and men wear pants and have beards, and men like women and women like men, etc, are always correct, despite the fact that reality disagrees with them.
They’re always on the lookout for any way for them to improve their socio-economic standing as well, with the basic concept of more for me, less for everyone else.
I believe that to them, Trump is a means to an end. Less for everyone else, more for them. More of their rules, and values, imposed on others, whether others want it or not.
Take for example, gay marriage. IMO, it’s just marriage, eg. Two people who love eachother pledging their intention to continue to love and support eachother. My view is starkly contrasted by their view of “marriage is between a man and a woman before God!” (Or similar). Something something, the sanctity of marriage… Blah blah. Nobody seems to care about divorce rates though the writings they’re imposing on others pretty clearly state that marriage before God is a joining of souls in permanent matrimony and cannot and will not be broken. Ever. But I digress. Since they’re opposed to gay marriage, they don’t want it to be allowed, though it’s clearly discrimination. Arguing about “Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” and whatnot. The authoritarian, bull headed, my way out the highway mindset of someone like Trump, can actually achieve such goals. He’s absolutist. Whether he believes in the prohibition of gay marriage or not.
On a personal note, I hope all the LGBTQ+ people get all the same rights to be as happy or as miserable as the cis/straight people. You’re all fabulous and I love you all as brothers/sisters/siblings (for the gender ambiguous). I personally will continue to support you and fight along side all of you for equality.
Circling back to the point, this viewpoint can be copied and pasted on a number of issues that the right may not feel that they are properly represented on. Another good example is abortion; but that has mostly played out with the whole roe v. Wade thing, so I won’t go into more detail there, despite the fact that I have a lot of things to say about it.
I think that demonstrates the point. They don’t value him for what/who he is, they value him more for what he can do for them… To accomplish their goals and impose their ideals on everyone else. His ethical deficiencies and disregard for anyone’s opinion, well-being, and opinion, are desirable features for them.
They’re pushing for oppression of anyone who is different from them, trying to move up their capitalist ladder of success. Trump is just the latest tool that they’re trying to use to accomplish that goal.
“marriage is between a man and a woman before God!
Ummm… but what about all the men in the bible with many wives. There was no one man one wife thing in almost the entire Bible. Almost all of the people who are touted to be amazing examples of God’s peopel… were polygamists… and since that wasn’t enough, they would have the concubines on the side. Point that out and they run away.
Ummm… but what about all the men in the bible with many wives. There was no one man one wife thing in almost the entire Bible. Almost all of the people who are touted to be amazing examples of God’s peopel… were polygamists… and since that wasn’t enough, they would have the concubines on the side. Point that out and they run away.
There’s several points in the Gospel where Christ points at a departure from this though, right, like in Matthew 19 and Matthew 22, but the most poignant passage is 1 Corinthians 7:
2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
The purpose of getting married is the relief of sexual lust - and since we are talking about just relieving it, the idea of having multiple wives or concubines on the side is a perversion of this. We can even look at the story of King David and Bathsheba as an example of why you shouldn’t covet moaaarr wamen. It has been pointed out before that, like, adultery and lust are so powerful and pertinent that 2 of the 10 commandments are about it…
So i would say that one of the clarifications that exist, and one of the new usherings in of Christianity, is strict monogamy, and also praise for monasticism…
I think it’s simpler than that. Conservatism, at its core, has always been a purely reactionary opposition to liberal and progressive politics. In the modern era, it has felt the need to wrap itself in something resembling a positive ideology which presents thinly falsifiable policy positions, regardless of how narrow and mutable those ideological boundaries might be. Because until recently, abject, reactionary nihilism has been seen as a losing position.
Trump has freed conservatives from that burden. No longer do they need to create and defend any flimsy intellectual basis for their reactionary stances - Trump has presented a completely liturgical basis for conservative nihilism, and in doing so, he has freed millions of anti-intellectual CHUDS from the burden of thinking, and they love him for it.
Conservatism, at its core, has always been a purely reactionary opposition to liberal and progressive politics. In the modern era, it has felt the need to wrap itself in something resembling a positive ideology which presents thinly falsifiable policy positions, regardless of how narrow and mutable those ideological boundaries might be.
Well, there’s two major divides within conservatism as it plays out today, right?
Classical liberalism, we can call one, and then populist conservatism…
Classical liberal Republicans/Libertarians are highly principled and highly progressive with very positive, engaging values - think about these old guys like Paul Findley who were fundamentally isolationist, anti-war, pro-Palestine conservatives, that truly believed in Hayek’s Constitution of Liberty and that the key to bettering humans is through decentralization of power, minimal government, and human freedom.
And then there is conservatism that goes back to, like, tradition or populism.
Of course, these things often combine, but I think you need to treat conservatism with a lot of nuance because otherwise you are just dismantling a strawman.
Because until recently, abject, reactionary nihilism has been seen as a losing position.
Revolutionary nihilism is how radical liberalism was portrayed by Dostoevsky in the Devils - a great book - and it does make sense, because we see at its root that some of these radical movements actually were about reinventing all of society around totally new principles and annihilating what has hitherto been normalized in Western civilization…
Yes, there is like the Nietzschean reactionaries who want to build the New Man, but yeah, it’s still a losing position. I do not even think that guys like BAP are even on that level - like some of the hardcore neopagan LARP squad certainly envisions a completely new basis to muh Western civilization. But it’s not like Varg Vikernes is a viable option - in spite of how wildly popular Black Metal became after hipsters getting into blackgaze and shit after ironic Pitchfork album reviews, not even one of the most seminal figures in the genre can be anything much more than a joke for having these beliefs.
I think one of the problems we have is the paranoia about this stuff - you act as if the right is really some monster that is rising to swallow the country in a wave of Fascism, but it’s not the right who are anywhere near successfully removing their opponents from ballots.
I think it’s simpler than that–life was just better before Biden and after Obama.
I mean, unless you were one of the several hundred thousand people who died or lost loved ones to COVID for entirely preventable reasons. Or someone who’s not a complete shit human being who actually cares about their country being a democracy. But yeah. If you are a shit human being and you believe that COVID was caused by 5G networks or something, then sure. Trump was a great president.
You mean to say that at the end of his term, a deadly virus hit the whole world and he couldn’t get a vaccine created in time to save everyone? Come on man, what could anyone have done in that timeframe? Does he get credit for the vaccine that Joe Biden and Democrats said they would NOT take because Trump recommended it? But when Biden took office was recommending it all day every day.
Secondly, our country is a republic, not a democracy–please lookup the Pledge of Allegiance.
Are you saying saying the Jan6 fiasco–where no one died (by the rioters), Democrats refused Trump’s requests for National Guard, and no one was convicted of treason or insurrection–was worse than the summer of love–where cops were murdered, businesses and government buildings destroyed, all in the name of George Floyd, who died from a drug overdose?
Come on man!
I’m going to respond to this first, because I think it’s the most succinct example of the point I’m about to make:
Secondly, our country is a republic, not a democracy–please lookup the Pledge of Allegiance.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I think it’s very unlikely that you know what either a republic or a democracy is. Because you seem to think that they’re mutually exclusive, when in fact they are very much not. America, my slow friend, is a democratic republic. A republic is a political system in which a representative is given executive authority for a particular period of time. The “particular period of time” bit is what differentiates it from, say, a monarchy. Presidents in the US are elected every 4 years. This makes it a republic.
A democracy is a political system in which the populace as a whole is invested with the authority to vote on things. This can, and often does include representatives, such as a president.
So you see, America is both a Democracy AND a Republic, and the two are not mutually exclusive. There. Now that you’ve had the most basic of civics lessons that you as a potentially functional adult SHOULD HAVE ALREADY FUCKING KNOWN… let’s get to the meat of what you replied with.
You mean to say that at the end of his term, a deadly virus hit the whole world and he couldn’t get a vaccine created in time to save everyone?
No. That would be stupid. Trump had no control over the virus any more than anybody else in the world did. And yet, he was the figurehead of the nation, and wielded executive authority that allowed him to take steps to mitigate its impact. This is the same for every other head of state in the world. So one has to ask why America did so poorly in its response to the virus compared to most of the rest of the world.
For starters, it’s probably not a good thing that he routinely poo-pooed life saving measures, such as social distancing and masking. And it’s also not a good thing that he promoted things like hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malarial drug that has zero proven benefits in relation to COVID. Additionally, I would argue that it was a bad thing that members of his administration sought to divert life-saving medical equipment such as ventilators from blue states.
The truth is, at every turn, Trump did the dumbest, most harmful thing possible. Remember that time he speculated openly on the mic about whether you could inject bleach or shove a light bulb up your ass to kill COVID? Good times. Or that time when he caught COVID, was rushed to Walter Reed where he received treatments not available to the rest of the public, and then he ordered his secret service guys to drive him around (while not masked) to show the world that “hey - COVID’s no big deal!”
I could go on with more, but I doubt you’re going to read anything I’ve written anyway. Your last paragraph is somehow dumber than the ones before it, which is impressive. You have shown yourself to have very little in the way of critical thinking skills, which means you’ll believe even the dumbest lies out there. Like your idiotic belief that the Democrats refused the National guard when there is video of Nancy Pelosi urgently requesting National Guard support. Or your even more idiotic belief that George Floyd died of a drug overdose only after being choked for 9 minutes.
I mean, my god man. How stupid can you possibly be? Have you never been taught how to examine things critically? Just, for the love of fuck, pull your head out of your ass and look at the real world around you once in a while. You have been repeatedly lied to by the people you’re defending, and you’re too dumb to see it.
I know what both are, but if we are to define what our government is, it would surely be a republic over a democracy. For example, if I said I ate an orange apple, I’m eating an apple, not an orange, even if it has some characteristics of an orange. Same could be said for democratic republic. Does it has democratic characteristics, yes, but it is a republic.
I don’t luke how Trump handled the virus in every way, I’ll give you that one. Depends on the study, but hydroxychloroquine has been effective for some, with all the variants and specific combinations of factors, it won’t work for all, just like Tylenol or Motrin isn’t a one stop fix for a headache.
With hundreds being put in jail for non-insurrection charges while Left media also claiming it was an insurrection for years, you can’t belive that at all. Even before that the Russia election interference.
Critically think about it, do you really think Trump is the only one to do anything sketchy in politics? It’s all a media and government circle jerk to make him unlikeable and ruin his name.
The good thing is that It’s really is backfiring in a big way too because folks who can think critically see it’s the Democrats so scared of corrupt, vile Trump they need to talk about him even when Biden won. They sure can’t talk about Biden’s efforts on immigration, economy, or war efforts, or even just walking and talking.
There is no confidence in our nation as soon as Trump left office. Stock markets plunged, inflation went up, used up our oil reserves, botched Afghan exit, wars popping up all over. I understand d you can be critical of both sides, and I do see Trumps flaws, but it is undeniable life during during Trump’s presidency was better than now.
Hahaha “Trump is indicative of a grown trend to bring religion in to government” Forst speech of Biden as candidet is in a church, his peach is to say Trumo = nazi. Lol
I’m not sure I understand what you’ve said. There seems to be a language barrier.
Even in 2016 it was obvious what kind of person he was. His “good” supporters claimed that being President would change him for the better. We all knew then that they were wrong. We all know now that they were lying.
No I don’t think I’ll excuse any of his voters. I could see he was a budding fascist in 2015, if you voted for him in 2016 you’re a piece of shit.
All of his supporters in 2016 were also bad people. They saw the “grab them by the pussy” tape, they saw him make fun of a disabled person, and thought he was still a worthy candidate for their vote.
Trump supporters can all starve… you can eat shit when you’re hungry…
I get that people are super emotional about the upcoming election, i am too. But this kind of emotion, and the feelings i see posted on this thread have no use to anyone.
Why do we hate the people who are easily fooled rather than the people who are doing the fooling?
Will openly hating them and showing superperiority to them make them change or just make us feel better?
How long and how loudly will “left wing” voices need to be (voices like this tweet i mean), how open will their distaste for right wing (citizens) have to be, before we on the left start wondering whether the party we believe in has the "moral superiority"it claims to?
I am starting to feel like you could just switch a few words around and then the shit we believe about them and the shit they believe about is identical, in a fun house mirror kinda way
Why do we hate the people who are easily fooled rather than the people who are doing the fooling?
The problem is willful ignorance. A lot of Trump supporters knew better from day 1 and chose to be easily fooled. I had a friend when I was a kid who used to cheer on the defendants in court cases when he thought they were guilty of heinous crimes because they got to “fuck with the system” if they got off. People like that grew up to vote for Trump because he would “fuck with the system”.
I think it’s ok to hate someone who voted for Trump BECAUSE they wanted to elect an enemy of the majority. It might not be productive to hate them, but it’s okay to.
How long and how loudly… how open will their distaste for right wing
We’re dumb evil immoral pedophiles who are going to hell, and every time we try to cooperate with them in any way they backstab us and then blame us. What exactly are we losing standing up to them when they’re going to punch us whether or not we do?
I am starting to feel like you could just switch a few words around and then the shit we believe about them and the shit they believe about is identical
The concept is assymetry. The most obvious (Godwinian) example is to take virtually any anti-Nazi quote and intersperse the word “Jew”. All of a sudden it becomes horrible and bigoted. You can absolutely then take any anti-Jew bigotry and say the word “Nazi”, and it suddenly becomes just and true.
Why? Because Trump Supporters and Democrats ARE fundamentally different. The best answer to the paradox of tolerance says that tolerance is a social contract - we are to be tolerant to those others who accept to follow that contract, but it can be open season (in terms of intolerance, not violence) for those who do not.
Why? Because Trump Supporters and Democrats ARE fundamentally different.
I don’t think that’s true, at all. I’ve been lucky enough to have some conversations with Trump voters and they have indeed said some dumb ass shit. But nothing unexpected, they’re all from fox n shit
After we get past the fox talking points and bullshit we are the same.
Centrists: It’s not all Republicans that support extremist candidates, there’s still lots of non-extremists in the party!
Iowa caucus: Trump 51.0% DeSantis 21.2% Haley 19.1% Ramaswamy 7.7%
Leaving 1.0% or less that don’t support an extremist candidate
I read on here a few days ago about Haley being representative of the LEAST extreme. That many of her voters would just end up voting Biden, even though they don’t agree with most of the politics.
I could almost give them benefit of the doubt. Anyone ignorant enough to call Biden socialist though is immediately not worth talking to
I’m still gonna vote for him over the genocider in chief.
