- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- politics@lemmy.world
- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- politics@lemmy.world
- usa@lemmy.ml
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In late December, 77 groups — representing tens of thousands of lawyers, civil society leaders, and activists from six continents — filed an amicus brief in a lawsuit that Palestinian human rights organizations, residents of Gaza, and U.S. citizens with family members impacted by Israel’s ongoing assault brought against the Biden administration.
Top administration officials have been dismissive of the case before the ICJ as well, with White House National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby calling it “meritless, counterproductive, and completely without any basis in fact whatsoever,” and Blinken deriding it on similar terms.
In late October, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu invoked a biblical verse about an enemy of ancient Israel that has long been cited to justify killing Palestinians.
The plaintiffs responded to the administration’s motion to dismiss on December 22, arguing that there is precedent for U.S. courts to adjudicate questions surrounding genocide and that their legal challenge is about more than the actions of a foreign state.
(The Biden administration is facing another federal lawsuit that accuses it of failing to protect Palestinian Americans stuck in Gaza, drawing a contrast to its efforts to help Israeli dual nationals.)
Correction: January 10, 2024, 4:45 p.m. ETA previous version of this article incorrectly stated that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu invoked Amalek in November; in fact, he made those comments in late October.
The original article contains 1,484 words, the summary contains 222 words. Saved 85%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
This shit is going nowhere.
That’s probably good, but why isn’t Russia facing similar charges?
Probably because Russia is an international pariah state that doesn’t even bother responding to legal accusations anymore, while Israel is only working its way up to that status currently.
Putin is on the watch list and will get arrested if he enters allied countries right?
July 2023: Putin won’t attend a South Africa summit next month, avoiding possible arrest
Not to banalize ukraine civilians casualities and Putin crimes but firstly no Russian officials used genocidal statements and secondly gaza casuality in 3 months is more than the double of ukraine casualities in almost 2 years.
Experts disagree on the genocide claim WRT Ukraine:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/27/russia-guilty-inciting-genocide-ukraine-expert-reportAlso we don’t know how bad the civilian casualties are in Crimea and other occupied cities like Mariupol, other than being catastrophically bad based on satellite pictures of mass burial sites.
False.
Russian officials have frequently stated things like Ukrainian does not exist, it’s a fake ethnicity, and that they’re all Russian. They’ve spoken about how they wish to destroy this non-existent culture as well.
Secondly, they are literally committing genocide and the ICC has a warrant out on Putin for genocide.
Ridiculous take.
Found the zionist.
Religion is idiotic also.
Zionism isn’t a religion-based ideology.
Maybe wanna do some research before commenting.
you’re just spewing Shit and Disinformation all over the Place.
Ignoring the whataboutism, here you go:
Removed by mod
Id love when that happens, TBH.
Also, why didn’t the Bush administration ever face anything for the invasion of Iraq and legalizing torture?
I wonder whether the people pushing these charges are being compensated by China/Russia for it.
a) That wasn’t genocide. That was imperialism to enrich American corporations.
b) When you’re a superpower they let you grab em by the pussy.
I think #1 was because the usa literally made a law/policy statement declaring they would invade if ever charges were filed.
Yeah that’s bullshit.
Biden can point to literally dozens of battles, sieges, and wars that the US was directly involved in and resulted in similar levels of civilian casualties, with no genocide accusations. This is not going anywhere.
“I killed this person but I can point out to many other similar situations where this happen in the past”
Amazing logic…
… Literally how legal precedent works mate
In past conflicts America has always had plausible deniabilty.
This time israel is screaming from the rooftops that they want to kill every man woman child and animal in Gaza. And then doing it
Cutting off food water and medicine also doesn’t help. Nor does Biden repeating Zionist propaganda about beheaded babies or rapes that didn’t happen. Or command centers under hospitals which were quickly forgotten about in the media after zero evidence was found of their existence.
Whether it works or not, it will massively tank the reputation of these institutions if they side with Genocide Joe.
Going after the US instead of Israel will definitely end it.
Frankly, genocide or not, there should be consequences for the high amount of civilian casualties in those US conflicts.
Sure, but that’s a moral argument relating to the justification of different wars, weighing of collateral damage, etc. This is a legal case based on the genocide convention of 1948, and if there is no genocide, it falls apart.
Right. But there is a genocide occurring.
Yeah but not if you just deny it. The right have great succes denying genocide too. 6 million 6 schmilion amirite?
Did the US ever kill 1% of a country’s population in less than four months? Iraq took years to reach 0.5% and it was a big fucking deal.
I’m going to assume you’re posting in good faith until proven otherwise.
The US never fought an urban country the size of Las Vegas, so a country-scale comparison is poor. We have however engaged in city-scale battles lasting several months, many of which killed 1% of the civilian population. A pretty good recent example is Mosul. There are several more egregious examples in the world wars, Korea, Vietnam, etc. notably we carpet bombed Tokyo for months killing several percent of the population.
Be careful not to ask why a country is packed into the size of Vegas or you may realize that was a coordinated campaign by the same people who are now claiming it’s impossible to not slaughter innocents because of the way THEY designed the strip.
Intentionally brining about conditions that lead to destruction in whole or part of a group is genocide, literally as written, in the Geneva Convention. Israel is the reason it’s so populated there, so when they blame the density, they blame themselves.
I’m well aware of the history and parallels with Jewish ghettos. These are somewhat confounded by repeated rejected offers of a two-state solution over 70 years, periods on unilateral Israeli withdrawal, the election of Hamas, decades of terror attacks on Israeli civilians with popular support, and a recent 9/11 scale massacre which also has popular support.
Also not to nitpick, but Israel didn’t create or design the Gaza strip. That was Egypt, who controlled it for 20 years without giving them citizenship or letting them leave.
Here’s a cool Netanyahu quote:
Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas.
This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank
- Speaking to Likud members of the Knesset (March 2019), as cited in “Another Concept Implodes: Israel Can’t Be Managed by a Criminal Defendant”, Haaretz (9 October 2023)
Here’s a compact 5 minute video about Hamas origins and how israel propped them up themselves.
So when Trump tries to overthrow the largest government of the free world it takes 4 years for his trial to start, but when Biden backs his military allies it takes less than a month?
Trump was getting sued constantly before and during his presidency. You do understand the difference between civil and criminal trials right?
The amount of tribalism in this thread is disgusting.
Biden can’t be bad because that would mean Trump good. And Trump is bad so Biden Good!
“Failed to prevent” Talk about a nonsense piece of drivel that would be dismissed with the most severe prejudice possible by a court.
We’re actively blocking the rest of the world’s efforts to stop netanyahu’s genocide. That clearly makes us a responsibility party. The intercept is one of the few sources of actual journalism in the US.
Are they doing something other than vetoing UN resolutions? Cause those are about as effective as protest voting for third parties in US elections.
BECAUSE OF US VETOES.
Jesus.
Oh, I’d bet they’d totally have an effect if they weren’t vetoed.
If countries want to do something, they don’t need the UN for it. The UN is literally just the accumulated efforts of all the countries that are part of it.
If they actually wanted to do something, the US saying “lol nah” shouldn’t stop them.
Cause those are about as effective as protest voting for third parties in US elections.
They’re that ineffective when you have a veto power in your back. Otherwise they can do a lot.
DOZENS OF LEGAL and civil society organizations from around the world have thrown their weight behind a U.S. lawsuit accusing President Joe Biden, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin for failing to “prevent an unfolding genocide” in Gaza.
US does something: “US WORLD POLICE LEAVE OTHER COUNTRIES ALONE”
US doesn’t do something: “DOING NOTHING IS LITERALLY THE SAME AS GENOCIDE, YOU ARE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE”
Usually I’d agree with this but the US is the main supplier of weapons to Israel. So…
I’m dumb and confused. What is it that you normally agree with?
If America does nothing it’s not their fault. But PugJesus is somehow saying that America is doing nothing in Gaza which is a huge lie.
DOING NOTHING
Selling them all those guns, moving aircraft carriers in to defend them, running interference at the UN, providing diplomatic cover, etc.
The rest of the world is trying to stop the IDF and the lunatics that netanyahu put in charge from continuing their genocide and we are active in preventing that.
Selling them all those guns,
That’s a much longer-term issue. I would argue that the current sales of ammunition, while distasteful, are little more than token support to a supposed ‘ally’.
moving aircraft carriers in to defend them
Alright, that one is to discourage a full-fledged war from breaking out. And I’m pretty sure that will not be any better for the Palestinian people than the current scenario.
running interference at the UN,
Fair enough on that one.
providing diplomatic cover, etc.
We’ve actually been more standoffish to Israel than I’ve ever seen before in terms of public statements. I think the nakedness of it has rattled some people in the State Department.
Didn’t Biden push through a sale specifically for this “war” though?
Hence the ‘current sales of ammunition’.
You also specifically said it was just part of their long term support. Why is it such an emergency that we provide those weapons now if it’s little more than a token gesture?
Ah, that would tie in to both the fact that Israel is a major purchaser of US equipment and that we don’t want Israel to be invaded, because God fucking knows how that will end.
The first is that when a country buys weapons from another, they want to know that they can continue to purchase the supplies that let them continue to operate those weapons. If not, well, they won’t purchase arms from that country anymore - if they will cut you off for policy disputes, then you’re at their mercy, and that’s unacceptable to most nations. A reputation for continuing to supply the weaponry we sell even to those we have disputes with, such as Turkiye and Egypt, is valuable to have for this reason. And while the profit motive is often championed as the reason for the sales, the real cause for its importance is influence - it’s much easier to integrate and cooperate with countries which use the same systems and have economic ties to you.
The second is that Israel isn’t about to literally run out of artillery shells for their current rate of genocide, but a perception of reduced supply could embolden other actors in the region to take aggressive action while stockpiles are lower. One of the major sales recently was of tank shells, which are not being used in large amounts in Gaza at the moment (most of it is being done by artillery and airstrikes) - a sale to shore up stockpiles to ward off the prospect of an intervention by a hostile neighbor. A war breaking out would be… disastrous. For Palestinians and everyone else.
Now, all this being said, I still think that we shouldn’t sell them anything at this moment, reputation be damned. But I also think it’s not a major contributor to the ongoing genocide, and it’s not much more than a continuation of prior policies.
Don’t forget directly providing intelligence https://theintercept.com/2024/01/11/israel-air-force-targeting-intelligence/
Yeah, super standoffish. You can tell by how it’s made no fucking difference, while the US sells them hundreds of thousands of tons of bombs and shells.
But they crooked an eyebrow while doing it, and that’s what really matters.
I do kind of agree, this is a bit much, but we are giving them lots of weapons, like i understand maintaining the alliance & there is a large jewish lobby in the USA but like the ammunition would be much better spent in Kharkiv or Robotnye vs Gaza City imo.
I mean, I’m in support of stopping aid to Israel entirely, and have been for years, since this is not in any way a new genocide.
But let’s not pretend that the timing is anything but an excuse to beat on the “US BAD” drum.
But let’s not pretend that the timing is anything but an excuse to beat on the “US BAD” drum.
I would disagree.
It’s a valid tactic to shame the US in order to move public opinion in a way that affects democrats. That’s a legit strategy to remove the biggest roadblock to holding Israel accountable, not just a chance for cheap political point-scoring.
I’m sure it will also be used for that by some but so what? We are bad. We’re a state. Any organization that holds power based on their control of violence is by definition evil. And worse, we’re a global imperial power, the worst kind of state. Maybe you think we’re the lesser evil, but we’re still quite obviously bad. All countries are vermin.
I would disagree. It’s a valid tactic to shame the US in order to move public opinion in a way that affects democrats. That’s a legit strategy to remove the biggest roadblock to holding Israel accountable, not just a chance for cheap political point-scoring.
But will it? Bringing charges against the Biden administration are unlikely to cause the Biden administration to change course, because such would be immediately jumped on by pro-Israel Democrats (ie the majority) and the entire Republican Party. It’s unlikely to change opinions here in the US for the better, because Republicans want genocide, while Democrats have already largely made up their minds as to whether Israel’s response is disproportionate or not.
That leaves a small number of swing voters to change - but the only change that would be noticeable by them would be an abandonment of the anti-Israel elements of the Democratic Party for not being anti-Israel enough. In every other scenario, their opinions on Israel are immaterial due to the overwhelming support from the other two, larger groups.
My point isn’t that we shouldn’t be calling out Israel’s genocide for what it is. We absolutely should be. My point is that apportioning blame to the Biden administration or attempting to hold the US government legally responsible for someone else’s genocide is counterproductive at best.
But will it?
By itself almost certainly not, but it’s rare for any one thing to change policy. Maybe something interesting comes out in court, or the government’s arguments make it look particularly bad. Probably not, but equally I doubt it’s going to backfire strongly.
I don’t know, man. It probably won’t backfire on the people bringing the suit, but it very easily could damage Biden at no expense to the pro-Israel wing. Which, in case anyone else reading this needs it to be said, would have even less desirable results regarding the ongoing genocide.
Put another way, if Biden ends up punished at the ballot box, pro-Israel voters are a MUCH larger bloc than us anti-Israel voters. The sad strategic answer of the next candidate will not be “Biden lost pro-Israel votes AND anti-Israel votes by stepping away from Israel; I had better step even further away in the hopes that it’ll be good enough for them this time!” it will be “Anti-Israel voters won’t help me if I step away from Israel, so it’s better to just go all-in on uncritical support for genocide to keep pro-Israel voters”.
When an official begins to step away from long-standing policy embedded deep into the institutions of government, the answer shouldn’t be to drag them for not stepping away far enough. It should be to emphasize that the move is good, and should be repeated.
Adolf Hitler was also just doing what the voters wanted right
You realize the world is full of people and organizations with many different opinions and interests, don’t you? It is impossible for anyone to do anything, or fail to do anything without people being unhappy and critical about it. The bigger and more powerful you are the louder that will be. There should be nothing surprising about this.
This is a really wierd statement/sentiment to me. Of course every decision is going to have detractors but when war crimes and genocide are involved, it gets bumped up a level past just “agree to disagree”
This is a publicity stunt on a scale to rival Ken Paxton, with the legal footing to match
BTW, did anybody notice this is the ONLY source reporting this trash?
Do you need the outlets to say it in unison?
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