There is a good case that abortion is morally impermissible – or at least there is significant moral uncertainty.
it’s actually kind of rare that one of these loses me in the first sentence (cause TESCREALs don’t know about brevity so usually their point is buried under an avalanche of words) but here we are. the only people who can’t imagine a morally permissible abortion just don’t give a fuck about women
“Put another way, even if one believes abortion is permissible, it likely remains a comparable problem to any problem of infant mortality – but with even more lost life-years, and occurring on a much larger scale than infant mortality”.
Well, it isn’t comparable, because abortion prevents forced birth, and forced birth is a form of torture. As indeed is being forced to care for a child in poverty.
“Other responses to Thomson highlight various other disanalogies between pregnancy and the violinist situation: In most cases of abortion, the woman is responsible for both the child’s neediness and their intimate biological relationship with the woman – unlike the violinist case. Other responses to Thomson highlight various other disanalogies between pregnancy and the violinist situation: In most cases of abortion, the woman is responsible for both the child’s neediness and their intimate biological relationship with the woman – unlike the violinist case.”
Bit of a bold statement, and likely untrue. It is impossible for a woman to know even when having unprotected sex if it will result in a pregnancy. Contraceptive technologies fail. And what about the responsibility of the father? It takes two.
“n the case of abortion, the woman is the mother of the child[6] – unlike the violinist case.[7]”
Ok, this is meaningless.
“The violinist is in an unnatural situation and being hooked up to the stranger is an unnatural position – by contrast, the fetus is exactly where she is supposed to be in her ‘natural habitat’.”
Not in my womb, it isn’t, motherfucker!
Quite a lot of pregnancies end early in miscarriage.
Well, it isn’t comparable, because abortion prevents forced birth, and forced birth is a form of torture. As indeed is being forced to care for a child in poverty.
Fun fact, abortion also prevents infanticide. Prolifers either don’t realise how pragmatic humans are, or are really into killing actual babies.
There are many horrible examples from 20th century Ireland - as well as stillbirths or accidental deaths. Several are mentioned in the “Letters to Ann” radio documentary, based on correspondence received by a popular Irish radio programme in the early 80s.
I think there have been large scale longitudinal studies in the US that recorded a drop in infanticide in states with legal abortion - of course this boyo doesn’t mention any studies like that, even to criticize them. because this is a plain ol’ anti-abortion polemic, not a literature review - all the sources and statistics are there for purely cosmetic purposes.
“6)deaths from abortion are a function of infrastructure, not law: pro-life countries/regions with good healthcare (e.g. Chile, Poland, Malta, South Korea (until recently), Ireland (until recently), North Africa, UAE, and almost all of Europe pre-legalisation) have very few, in many cases zero, deaths from abortion .”
Despite our good (?) healthcare, there was a high-profile death due to lack of abortion access in Ireland: Savita Halappanavar. And that’s despite the fact that from 1996 (?) to 2018 abortion was legally permitted to “protect the life of the mother”, if a panel of doctors agreed her life was in danger. In addition to Savita’s death there was a case in which a raped, pregnant teenager became suicidal, but because doctors did not agree she should have an abortion, she was committed and put on suicide watch. How’s that for harm? Women who travelled abroad for abortions also experienced significant medical and psychological harm as a result: consider the case of A, B and C vs. Ireland.
Yeah nah, we had (in Poland) at least a few high profile cases where pregnant women died because they were denied abortion, directly due to recent-ish abortion bans
I’m really sorry. During 2018 Irish feminists were really looking to Poland, there was even an Irish “Strike for Repeal” modelled on the Polish women’s strike. Horrific stories are leaking out from America too. I really think Irish abortion activists need to do more to show solidarity with countries where abortion is threatened or banned.
well, we just had elections and new govt is expected to at least reverse the worst bits. this won’t happen until early next year tho. (still) currently governing PiS took a hit in polls from some 42% to some 30% due to these bans and subsequent protests in 2020-2021, from which they never recovered and that cost them elections. you could say it kinda works just not as fast as everyone would like it
bonus side effect: now, solely due to that fundamentalist fuckery, there’s more support of not only going back to what was before, but going in line with other euro countries ie unrestricted access to abortion
it’s actually kind of rare that one of these loses me in the first sentence (cause TESCREALs don’t know about brevity so usually their point is buried under an avalanche of words) but here we are. the only people who can’t imagine a morally permissible abortion just don’t give a fuck about women
Moral uncertainty is reason to become pro-life? We do morally uncertain things every day. That’s no reason to legislate.
Well, it isn’t comparable, because abortion prevents forced birth, and forced birth is a form of torture. As indeed is being forced to care for a child in poverty.
Bit of a bold statement, and likely untrue. It is impossible for a woman to know even when having unprotected sex if it will result in a pregnancy. Contraceptive technologies fail. And what about the responsibility of the father? It takes two.
Ok, this is meaningless.
Not in my womb, it isn’t, motherfucker!
Quite a lot of pregnancies end early in miscarriage.
Fun fact, abortion also prevents infanticide. Prolifers either don’t realise how pragmatic humans are, or are really into killing actual babies.
There are many horrible examples from 20th century Ireland - as well as stillbirths or accidental deaths. Several are mentioned in the “Letters to Ann” radio documentary, based on correspondence received by a popular Irish radio programme in the early 80s.
I think there have been large scale longitudinal studies in the US that recorded a drop in infanticide in states with legal abortion - of course this boyo doesn’t mention any studies like that, even to criticize them. because this is a plain ol’ anti-abortion polemic, not a literature review - all the sources and statistics are there for purely cosmetic purposes.
“6)deaths from abortion are a function of infrastructure, not law: pro-life countries/regions with good healthcare (e.g. Chile, Poland, Malta, South Korea (until recently), Ireland (until recently), North Africa, UAE, and almost all of Europe pre-legalisation) have very few, in many cases zero, deaths from abortion .”
Despite our good (?) healthcare, there was a high-profile death due to lack of abortion access in Ireland: Savita Halappanavar. And that’s despite the fact that from 1996 (?) to 2018 abortion was legally permitted to “protect the life of the mother”, if a panel of doctors agreed her life was in danger. In addition to Savita’s death there was a case in which a raped, pregnant teenager became suicidal, but because doctors did not agree she should have an abortion, she was committed and put on suicide watch. How’s that for harm? Women who travelled abroad for abortions also experienced significant medical and psychological harm as a result: consider the case of A, B and C vs. Ireland.
Yeah nah, we had (in Poland) at least a few high profile cases where pregnant women died because they were denied abortion, directly due to recent-ish abortion bans
I’m really sorry. During 2018 Irish feminists were really looking to Poland, there was even an Irish “Strike for Repeal” modelled on the Polish women’s strike. Horrific stories are leaking out from America too. I really think Irish abortion activists need to do more to show solidarity with countries where abortion is threatened or banned.
well, we just had elections and new govt is expected to at least reverse the worst bits. this won’t happen until early next year tho. (still) currently governing PiS took a hit in polls from some 42% to some 30% due to these bans and subsequent protests in 2020-2021, from which they never recovered and that cost them elections. you could say it kinda works just not as fast as everyone would like it
bonus side effect: now, solely due to that fundamentalist fuckery, there’s more support of not only going back to what was before, but going in line with other euro countries ie unrestricted access to abortion
Great to hear that. I did hear about the recent election but wasn’t sure where things were, what Tusk’s views are etc.
This is one of the most pressing issues for all parties in coalition, even for christian democrats. This, and relations with EU
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Yeah you would want to, wouldn’t you. Don’t want any specifics to crack your veneer of moral righteousness.