the war in the ukraine is a form of contradiction in capitalism, war is a form of capitalistic competition - right wing extremism grows when there is a low quality of life iirc as people wish to return to a time where everything was perfect and so they need to destroy the out group to get there (the time where everything was perfect doesn’t exist).
so if they can have a wonderful life after the war then yeah sure, you can limit it to anti Semitism.
but regardless of who wins the ukraine war, you can imagine that the despair in both nations will be substantial.
No, I mean the view of what fascism is, do you think the media has made it seem like Fascism = anti semitism and ignores all the other groups nazi germany wanted gone, because that’s the only way “zelensky is jewish” can be a counter argument for being a fascist. I’ve noticed the same when someone compares the zionist entity to nazi Germany, same reaction "how can they be like nazis if they’re jewish’.
Western media and politics has definitely reduced and obscured the overall class characteristic of fascism. People in the West seem to think fascism simply means “big government” and “hating Jews” because those were cornerstones of Nazi ideology. They’re not taught that Nazism is just one historic manifestation of fascist ideology and that the greater ideological movement itself is opportunistic, disguised and flexible according to the particular place it arises from.
If they were taught about the material basis and goals of fascism they would have to reckon with the fact that their own countries histories were proto-fascist projects from their inception. If they were taught to recognize the signs, they would see that the same exact tactics, conspiracy theories, and rhetoric aimed against Jews in Nazi Germany have been used against Muslims in recent history (and continue to be so) and are currently being used against Chinese and other Asian groups as well. But because the way fascism and WWII in general is taught about in the West, Westerners have an incoherent understanding of fascism.
I don’t think fascism and nazis are interchangable 1 to 1, iirc fascism is either a system of government or ideology. while the nazis are a type of fascism. all nazis are fascists but not all fascists are Nazis.
but i can imagine most people stopped learning about history in highschool, so i imagine that when they hear fascist they think nazi then immediately the nazi’s extreme disdain for jewish people, so to have a person who is jewish in the company of nazis is enough cause to wave away concern.
In terms on the zionist entity i imagine they wave it away because to have a jewish entity acting in a fascist way is oxymoron from their point of understanding history.
they kindof used that plot in the hbo series “the plot against america” with the rabbi vouching for a vaguely anti semite dude for president
There’s this video (the bot should give you an invidious link) it explains fascism, but obviously not everything since it’s short, there’s also I think @AnarchoBolshevik@lemmygrad.ml who always posts about fascism ig
Here’s a really good article on fascism which broadens the definition from the commonly understood one, and connects fascism to colonialism and capitalism/liberal democracy in general.
Just to jump in with additional analysis on facism, Michael Parenti does a good job covering some of the history of facism in WWII and how it has continued to propagate in current times. He also shows how facism is more flexible than we give it credit for, how it has arisen in more subtle ways than it did in 1920s Italy or 1930s Germany.
In particular, “Functions of Facism” is a great starting point.
Young people love confusing terms. So the words sound more mysterious. “Bolsheviks” began to be called after the II Congress of the RSDLP group, which received a majority in the elections to the Central Committee of the party. The Bolsheviks sought to create a party of professional revolutionaries, while the Mensheviks feared the criminalization of the party and tended to legitimate methods of struggle against autocracy (reformism).
Anarchism (from ancient Greek. Anarchism (ἀναρχία, from ἀν- “without-” and ἀρχή “beginning; superiority; power”) is a general name for a number of systems of views based on human freedom and denying the need for coercive government and human authority over man.
Therefore, “anarchobolsheviks” is nonsense
.
I have seen a few people disparage an antisemite by calling one ‘Hitler’, but at the moment I don’t particularly remember somebody calling a generic antisemite ‘Nazi’. Colloquially, ‘Nazi’ and ‘fascist’ are more commonly used as crude synonyms for ‘control freak’. (I myself was disparaged as a ‘Nazi’ about a dozen years ago because I ordered somebody in my Doom II server to do something.)
The Jews who willingly supported German Fascism (so‐called ‘Nazism’) were undoubtedly a small minority, but I’d argue that they are still worth examining for two reasons: to understand that sometimes there are victims who side with their oppressors, and to understand why they do. Some Jews, such as Max Naumann, were so intent on assimilation that they adopted their oppressors’ prejudices. Others were, for example, extremely patriotic, and yet others saw the European fascists as useful allies to Zionism. There was a variety of reasons. On the other hand, Jews who wanted their own variant of fascism had their own reasons. The most useful English work on this is Dan Tamir’s Hebrew Fascism in Palestine, 1922–1942.
Collaboration with the enemy is a relatively complex subject, but very serious. In Zelensky’s case, I suspect that his support for Ukrainian neofascism is driven by survival, preferential treatment, or both: also motives that some Jews had for (willingly or unwillingly) supporting European fascism.
I think another point to consider with European 20th century fascism is the distinction between Judeophobia and antisemitism and the latter’s creation in response to the social and economic rise of Jews in the 19th century. Judeophobia died down in the West but antisemitism is still quite prevalent. As @Beat_da_Rich pointed out, the same thing is being done today against China (example 1, example 2), and we also see some Chinese people joining in on the anti-China rhetoric. We also see other far-right movements in the West using the same tropes of “conspiratorial cabal” or “controlling elites” - for example in transphobic or anti-“woke” messaging (which is sometimes also linked to anti-China messaging).
Roderic Day summarizes the distinction between racism in general and the specific phenomenon of antisemitism/sinophobia by defining the latter as “Racism but specifically against ‘races’ that are powerful enough to challenge the ‘white race’” which I think is a good description. It highlights how the phenomenon is created and centers the fact that the main targeted group can change in relation to its economic and social status.
Today’s Nazis still do hate Jews, but the main enemy now seems to be China and Chinese people. Many fascist groups today even like Israel due to it being a colonial, apartheid ethno-state. At least from what I’ve seen, a lot (most?) of the more mainstream, specifically anti-Jewish propaganda today is targeted more towards individuals like Soros or specific organizations/companies rather than Jewish people as a whole.
The frustrating thing in the states too, is that the point of view of Chinese and other Asian people are often excluded or disregarded from these cultural conversations and even activist circles because the conversation about race is so often binary between Black and White struggles. Because of our “model minority” status, other marginalized groups just see us as off-brand Whites that are aiming to control everything (not to mention the working-class and militant Asian history in America is completely left out of our education system). Even in so-called progressive spaces dominated by Black voices will these conspiratorial takes on Chinese spies and CCP “elites” pop up. It’s depressing as fuck and tempers a lot of my hope in the American socialist movements. It’s not even just the “White Settler Left” which gets called out all the time for this shit. It’s the Western Left in general, across all racial/identity lines, that has this problem that needs to be ruthlessly struggled against.
Gonna be completely honest, as an Asian it just makes me feel like I’ll need to gtfo of this country soon because the scapegoating isn’t just coming from the mainstream fascist right. I’ve heard it from people who should be my goddamn comrades.
Even apart from white chauvinism, people seem to be buying into western chauvinism in general, and from there it’s not a long road to this kind of sinophobia and anti-Asian racism.
Is limiting nazism to anti semitism a thing?
Yes, “it’s not nazism untill they mass murder Jews” is very common take in the lib internet
the war in the ukraine is a form of contradiction in capitalism, war is a form of capitalistic competition - right wing extremism grows when there is a low quality of life iirc as people wish to return to a time where everything was perfect and so they need to destroy the out group to get there (the time where everything was perfect doesn’t exist).
so if they can have a wonderful life after the war then yeah sure, you can limit it to anti Semitism. but regardless of who wins the ukraine war, you can imagine that the despair in both nations will be substantial.
No, I mean the view of what fascism is, do you think the media has made it seem like Fascism = anti semitism and ignores all the other groups nazi germany wanted gone, because that’s the only way “zelensky is jewish” can be a counter argument for being a fascist. I’ve noticed the same when someone compares the zionist entity to nazi Germany, same reaction "how can they be like nazis if they’re jewish’.
Western media and politics has definitely reduced and obscured the overall class characteristic of fascism. People in the West seem to think fascism simply means “big government” and “hating Jews” because those were cornerstones of Nazi ideology. They’re not taught that Nazism is just one historic manifestation of fascist ideology and that the greater ideological movement itself is opportunistic, disguised and flexible according to the particular place it arises from.
If they were taught about the material basis and goals of fascism they would have to reckon with the fact that their own countries histories were proto-fascist projects from their inception. If they were taught to recognize the signs, they would see that the same exact tactics, conspiracy theories, and rhetoric aimed against Jews in Nazi Germany have been used against Muslims in recent history (and continue to be so) and are currently being used against Chinese and other Asian groups as well. But because the way fascism and WWII in general is taught about in the West, Westerners have an incoherent understanding of fascism.
I don’t think fascism and nazis are interchangable 1 to 1, iirc fascism is either a system of government or ideology. while the nazis are a type of fascism. all nazis are fascists but not all fascists are Nazis.
but i can imagine most people stopped learning about history in highschool, so i imagine that when they hear fascist they think nazi then immediately the nazi’s extreme disdain for jewish people, so to have a person who is jewish in the company of nazis is enough cause to wave away concern. In terms on the zionist entity i imagine they wave it away because to have a jewish entity acting in a fascist way is oxymoron from their point of understanding history.
they kindof used that plot in the hbo series “the plot against america” with the rabbi vouching for a vaguely anti semite dude for president
There’s this video (the bot should give you an invidious link) it explains fascism, but obviously not everything since it’s short, there’s also I think @AnarchoBolshevik@lemmygrad.ml who always posts about fascism ig
huh thanks for that friend, also OOF return of child labour big america L
Here’s a really good article on fascism which broadens the definition from the commonly understood one, and connects fascism to colonialism and capitalism/liberal democracy in general.
Just to jump in with additional analysis on facism, Michael Parenti does a good job covering some of the history of facism in WWII and how it has continued to propagate in current times. He also shows how facism is more flexible than we give it credit for, how it has arisen in more subtle ways than it did in 1920s Italy or 1930s Germany.
In particular, “Functions of Facism” is a great starting point.
Gabriel Rockhill also has work on fascism as innate to capitalism and the false narratives of fascism being defeated in WW2 by liberalism.
Damn, that it a great article.
Young people love confusing terms. So the words sound more mysterious. “Bolsheviks” began to be called after the II Congress of the RSDLP group, which received a majority in the elections to the Central Committee of the party. The Bolsheviks sought to create a party of professional revolutionaries, while the Mensheviks feared the criminalization of the party and tended to legitimate methods of struggle against autocracy (reformism).
Anarchism (from ancient Greek. Anarchism (ἀναρχία, from ἀν- “without-” and ἀρχή “beginning; superiority; power”) is a general name for a number of systems of views based on human freedom and denying the need for coercive government and human authority over man. Therefore, “anarchobolsheviks” is nonsense .
Their username is incoherent, but they are well read on fascism.
They are a comrade, regardless of username, and far better read than me, personally.
I have seen a few people disparage an antisemite by calling one ‘Hitler’, but at the moment I don’t particularly remember somebody calling a generic antisemite ‘Nazi’. Colloquially, ‘Nazi’ and ‘fascist’ are more commonly used as crude synonyms for ‘control freak’. (I myself was disparaged as a ‘Nazi’ about a dozen years ago because I ordered somebody in my Doom II server to do something.)
The Jews who willingly supported German Fascism (so‐called ‘Nazism’) were undoubtedly a small minority, but I’d argue that they are still worth examining for two reasons: to understand that sometimes there are victims who side with their oppressors, and to understand why they do. Some Jews, such as Max Naumann, were so intent on assimilation that they adopted their oppressors’ prejudices. Others were, for example, extremely patriotic, and yet others saw the European fascists as useful allies to Zionism. There was a variety of reasons. On the other hand, Jews who wanted their own variant of fascism had their own reasons. The most useful English work on this is Dan Tamir’s Hebrew Fascism in Palestine, 1922–1942.
Collaboration with the enemy is a relatively complex subject, but very serious. In Zelensky’s case, I suspect that his support for Ukrainian neofascism is driven by survival, preferential treatment, or both: also motives that some Jews had for (willingly or unwillingly) supporting European fascism.
I think another point to consider with European 20th century fascism is the distinction between Judeophobia and antisemitism and the latter’s creation in response to the social and economic rise of Jews in the 19th century. Judeophobia died down in the West but antisemitism is still quite prevalent. As @Beat_da_Rich pointed out, the same thing is being done today against China (example 1, example 2), and we also see some Chinese people joining in on the anti-China rhetoric. We also see other far-right movements in the West using the same tropes of “conspiratorial cabal” or “controlling elites” - for example in transphobic or anti-“woke” messaging (which is sometimes also linked to anti-China messaging).
Roderic Day summarizes the distinction between racism in general and the specific phenomenon of antisemitism/sinophobia by defining the latter as “Racism but specifically against ‘races’ that are powerful enough to challenge the ‘white race’” which I think is a good description. It highlights how the phenomenon is created and centers the fact that the main targeted group can change in relation to its economic and social status.
Today’s Nazis still do hate Jews, but the main enemy now seems to be China and Chinese people. Many fascist groups today even like Israel due to it being a colonial, apartheid ethno-state. At least from what I’ve seen, a lot (most?) of the more mainstream, specifically anti-Jewish propaganda today is targeted more towards individuals like Soros or specific organizations/companies rather than Jewish people as a whole.
The frustrating thing in the states too, is that the point of view of Chinese and other Asian people are often excluded or disregarded from these cultural conversations and even activist circles because the conversation about race is so often binary between Black and White struggles. Because of our “model minority” status, other marginalized groups just see us as off-brand Whites that are aiming to control everything (not to mention the working-class and militant Asian history in America is completely left out of our education system). Even in so-called progressive spaces dominated by Black voices will these conspiratorial takes on Chinese spies and CCP “elites” pop up. It’s depressing as fuck and tempers a lot of my hope in the American socialist movements. It’s not even just the “White Settler Left” which gets called out all the time for this shit. It’s the Western Left in general, across all racial/identity lines, that has this problem that needs to be ruthlessly struggled against.
Gonna be completely honest, as an Asian it just makes me feel like I’ll need to gtfo of this country soon because the scapegoating isn’t just coming from the mainstream fascist right. I’ve heard it from people who should be my goddamn comrades.
Even apart from white chauvinism, people seem to be buying into western chauvinism in general, and from there it’s not a long road to this kind of sinophobia and anti-Asian racism.