There are public health systems that just won’t offer that operation. Or you’ll have a 1.5 year waiting list. So in the end, unless you’re rich and pay for private insurance, it comes out as the same.
(Edit: since someone thought my take is because I’m american and don’t understand. I’m european, have lived most my life in europe, this is from lived experience)
People in Australia do experience medical bankruptcy. It’s incredibly rare now. But it’s true. But it used to be so much worse before we had a public health system. And health outcomes were worse as well. And it cost more.
No, they got sick, now they have a long lasting condition and can’t work because of it.
They did get treatment but can’t be cured (as of today long-covid is still a mystery).
They didn’t lose all their money because of the medical bills, they’re losing their money because they can’t work anymore and the state is not giving them “benefits” (horrible word in this case).
One is an issue with healthcare, one is an issue with social welfare, again, not the same thing.
Complètement diminuées, des personnes atteintes de Covid long font face à des délais de plus deux ans pour savoir si elles auront droit ou non à une rente AI. Incapables de travailler, certaines finissent ruinées.
In english:
Completely disabled, people stricken by long COVID face delays of more than two years to know if they will have disability benefits. Incapable of working, some finish bankrupt.
Is this not an example of medical bankruptcy ie. bankruptcy due to a medical condition?
If you don’t see the difference between the state covering the cost of medical treatment and the state handouts for unemployed, I cannot help you. You are either deliberately obtuse or simply dim.
Yeah, that happens sometimes. But in this case the price of an operation will be drastically cheaper.
I had this situation in Germany, there was a minor operation I needed to have which was not life threatening so the one that insurance covered had a waiting period, so I decided to go pay out of pocket and it was around 800 euro. The cheapest price I could find in US for it started at 11000 dollars.
If you’re disabled and on disability income, it will absolutely not cost you 800 euro. You will be put in front of the queue for the free one. That’s why I, able bodied working person with slightly above median income, had to wait. And I think it’s as fair of a system that is possible under the circumstances.
That’s not how it works in my country. Great that that’s how your country works. The vast majority of those with universal healthcare don’t work like that.
I used to work for a disability advocacy organisation so I can assure you that.
For every case of a disabled persion on benefits having to wait 1.5 years for a non-urgent operation because they can’t afford private healthcare, there are a million of cases of people who get a common problem like Diabetes or Cardio-Vascular problems and get treated for free (down to getting the medicine for free, which for a person below the poverty line will be true even for the worst countries) rather than suddenly being faced with an extra monthly bill for medicine (which would be a massive hit for those poor people you cosplay as caring about for the sake of argument) or a massive bill for urgent surgery.
(Which reminds me: one thing that will NEVER happen in one of those countries, unlike in the US, is when one ends up in the emergency ward and requires an expensive treatment to save their life, they won’t get a massive bill at the end)
Oh, and even if you pay out of pocket for medicine, it’s way cheaper in those countries than the US, as governments have used their leverage to limit what Pharmaceutial companies can charge, unlike in the US.
The healthcare risks for the average individual in countries with Universal Healthcare aren’t even in the same universe as in the US.
Mate, as I’ve said it’s not one but TWO countries I lived in with Universal Healthcare, and you can’t be a Nationalist (as you’re trying to imply) for TWO countries.
If you’re comparing like to like - i.e. the average poor disabled person in both a country with Universal Healthcare and the US - you’re going to get some cases of those having insufficient treatment in countries with UHC (especially in those were neoliberal governments have been defunding their UHC systems to try and privatise Healthcare even against popular will, like the UK), whilst the vast majority of those people will be fucked in the US (unless they’re Veterans).
I’ve lived in several countries and it’s just an enormous peace of mind living in a country were you know that if you’re involved in an accident and end up getting costly treatement in an emergency ward, you’re not going to be ruined.
I think you’re seeing the problems relative to a specific baseline and you think that there are massive problems there (which I’m sure there are) but the thing with the US system is that the baseline itself is way worse and all those problem you see would also be problems there but much worse (or maybe not, as those people would die a lot faster, at which point no problem would be visible) and on top of that in the US there are way more people with even worse problems when it comes to Healthcare than the “poor disabled person” in a country with UHC.
Dude I’ve lived in France, Switzerland, Austria, and the UK.
I’m not trying to tell you universal healthcare is bad. I’ve never said the US system is better, in fact it’s far worse. Don’t straw man me.
All I said is the statistics on the meme are false and ignore a lot of suffering and death. And you took that as a personal attack on universal healthcare.
There are public health systems that just won’t offer that operation. Or you’ll have a 1.5 year waiting list. So in the end, unless you’re rich and pay for private insurance, it comes out as the same.
(Edit: since someone thought my take is because I’m american and don’t understand. I’m european, have lived most my life in europe, this is from lived experience)
People in Australia do experience medical bankruptcy. It’s incredibly rare now. But it’s true. But it used to be so much worse before we had a public health system. And health outcomes were worse as well. And it cost more.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-18/bob-hawke-what-did-australia-have-before-medicare/11124180
An article just yesterday about the same happening in Switzerland
https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/2024/article/covid-long-delais-de-2-ans-pour-une-rente-ai-des-malades-dans-la-precarite-28723610.html?rts_source=rss_t
Not it’s not about that at all. This is about someone not getting disability checks, not healthcare, two very different things.
It’s about bankrupcy due to a medical condition.
Yes, resulting from lack of treatment and delay in paying disability benefits.
No, they got sick, now they have a long lasting condition and can’t work because of it. They did get treatment but can’t be cured (as of today long-covid is still a mystery). They didn’t lose all their money because of the medical bills, they’re losing their money because they can’t work anymore and the state is not giving them “benefits” (horrible word in this case). One is an issue with healthcare, one is an issue with social welfare, again, not the same thing.
You are full of shit.
Literally the subheading of the article
Complètement diminuées, des personnes atteintes de Covid long font face à des délais de plus deux ans pour savoir si elles auront droit ou non à une rente AI. Incapables de travailler, certaines finissent ruinées.
In english:
Completely disabled, people stricken by long COVID face delays of more than two years to know if they will have disability benefits. Incapable of working, some finish bankrupt.
Is this not an example of medical bankruptcy ie. bankruptcy due to a medical condition?
If you don’t see the difference between the state covering the cost of medical treatment and the state handouts for unemployed, I cannot help you. You are either deliberately obtuse or simply dim.
Yeah, that happens sometimes. But in this case the price of an operation will be drastically cheaper.
I had this situation in Germany, there was a minor operation I needed to have which was not life threatening so the one that insurance covered had a waiting period, so I decided to go pay out of pocket and it was around 800 euro. The cheapest price I could find in US for it started at 11000 dollars.
For sure. But now imagine your disabled and on disability income, where you get payed 1k a month and are living in poverty.
If you’re disabled and on disability income, it will absolutely not cost you 800 euro. You will be put in front of the queue for the free one. That’s why I, able bodied working person with slightly above median income, had to wait. And I think it’s as fair of a system that is possible under the circumstances.
That’s not how it works in my country. Great that that’s how your country works. The vast majority of those with universal healthcare don’t work like that.
I used to work for a disability advocacy organisation so I can assure you that.
Which country are you talking about?
My experience in; France, Switzerland, Austria, United Kingdom
For every case of a disabled persion on benefits having to wait 1.5 years for a non-urgent operation because they can’t afford private healthcare, there are a million of cases of people who get a common problem like Diabetes or Cardio-Vascular problems and get treated for free (down to getting the medicine for free, which for a person below the poverty line will be true even for the worst countries) rather than suddenly being faced with an extra monthly bill for medicine (which would be a massive hit for those poor people you cosplay as caring about for the sake of argument) or a massive bill for urgent surgery.
(Which reminds me: one thing that will NEVER happen in one of those countries, unlike in the US, is when one ends up in the emergency ward and requires an expensive treatment to save their life, they won’t get a massive bill at the end)
Oh, and even if you pay out of pocket for medicine, it’s way cheaper in those countries than the US, as governments have used their leverage to limit what Pharmaceutial companies can charge, unlike in the US.
The healthcare risks for the average individual in countries with Universal Healthcare aren’t even in the same universe as in the US.
You’re vastly underestimating the number of disabled and poor people and you’re vastly overestimating the number of things that are covered.
I get your proud of your country or your system or whatever, but please don’t minimise the experience of already marginalised groups.
Mate, as I’ve said it’s not one but TWO countries I lived in with Universal Healthcare, and you can’t be a Nationalist (as you’re trying to imply) for TWO countries.
If you’re comparing like to like - i.e. the average poor disabled person in both a country with Universal Healthcare and the US - you’re going to get some cases of those having insufficient treatment in countries with UHC (especially in those were neoliberal governments have been defunding their UHC systems to try and privatise Healthcare even against popular will, like the UK), whilst the vast majority of those people will be fucked in the US (unless they’re Veterans).
I’ve lived in several countries and it’s just an enormous peace of mind living in a country were you know that if you’re involved in an accident and end up getting costly treatement in an emergency ward, you’re not going to be ruined.
I think you’re seeing the problems relative to a specific baseline and you think that there are massive problems there (which I’m sure there are) but the thing with the US system is that the baseline itself is way worse and all those problem you see would also be problems there but much worse (or maybe not, as those people would die a lot faster, at which point no problem would be visible) and on top of that in the US there are way more people with even worse problems when it comes to Healthcare than the “poor disabled person” in a country with UHC.
Oh veterans are fucked here too. Imagine the nhs but worse, now imagine you had to join the us military to get it
Dude I’ve lived in France, Switzerland, Austria, and the UK.
I’m not trying to tell you universal healthcare is bad. I’ve never said the US system is better, in fact it’s far worse. Don’t straw man me.
All I said is the statistics on the meme are false and ignore a lot of suffering and death. And you took that as a personal attack on universal healthcare.
Fair enough.
there’s still waiting lists in the US.