I was gonna title this “And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price you have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice” and then write “Stuck inside of America with the fascism blues again” here, but I’m not sure if that comes off like gloating and that’s honestly the last thing I want to do this morning.

  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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    9 hours ago

    Swinging left wouldn’t have worked either.

    There is no high horse. There is no right path. Us Americans have the critical thinking skill of an ant. The left should have fought dirty with a full blown propaganda machine, populist lies, and blatant collusion if they wanted to win, simple as that.

    It needs a leftist Trump.

    What are Republican’s gonna do… demonize democrats even more?

    • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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      9 hours ago

      Swinging left wouldn’t have worked either.

      It absolutely would have. Progressive policy is insanely popular and easy to campaign on by virtue of being designed to help everyone. Do you think Bernie had such high favorably ratings because they have a thing for 80 year old white dudes?

      Tell people “healthcare will be free” or “We will cap rent and build housing that won’t cost more than 3x local median income” and then people can’t afford not to vote for you.

      Biden could have cut off arms to Israel, and hundreds of thousands of students so politically activated they’re willing to risk their degrees to protest would be doing everything in their power to keep Trump out.

      Instead they sent the police to kick the shit out of those kids, at great expense to the colleges, and called them antisemitic.

      • yeahiknow3@lemmings.world
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        6 hours ago

        I’m afraid exit polls say otherwise. Kamala’s economic policies were the most left wing we’ve seen in decades (a wealth tax?). If people cared about actual economic policies they’d have elected her.

        This election was lost because Latino men voted for Trump (for starters). We needed populism, not progressivism, to appeal to the small minded American voter. Don’t you see that? Most American men are misogynistic, racist psychos. And they’re unhappy. You appeal to them with populism full stop.

        • yogurt@lemm.ee
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          5 hours ago

          Wealth tax to collect more money to give to Israel and the most lethal military and killing immigrants is what she ran on, she ran as a right wing populist and lost because Trump is a better right wing populist

          Small minded voters are told what to think, Harris refused to tell them to want free healthcare because that shit pisses off donors

      • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat
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        9 hours ago

        Tell people “healthcare will be free” or “We will cap rent and build housing that won’t cost more than 3x local median income” and then people can’t afford not to vote for you.

        1. It would have to go through congress, which wouldn’t approve it, so it would be a lie.
        2. They told people “I won’t do mass deportations or order the assassinations of my enemies” and it didn’t work. Why do you assume that this other stuff would?
        • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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          8 hours ago

          It would have to go through congress, which wouldn’t approve it, so it would be a lie.

          The US president is probably the single most powerful position in the world between explicit powers and people who serve at his pleasure and can be replaced at will, and undefined powers that that extend as far as anyone is able to stop them, as we saw under Trump. If they just flagrantly broke the law and kept doing it until the SCOTUS and others actually stopped them, the dems would be far more popular than just throwing their hands up and saying "better things aren’t possible.

          There’s a lot of indirect ways they can get what they want done, whether it means appointing an AG and other department heads who will punish people who don’t go along or using the military’s vast legal protections and resources.

          They told people “I won’t do mass deportations

          1. That’s not saying how you’ll improve people’s immediate conditions, just that trump will make them worse

          2. You can’t credibly say that when Biden deported more people than Trump.

          • BlitzoTheOisSilent@lemmy.world
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            6 hours ago

            If they just flagrantly broke the law and kept doing it until the SCOTUS and others actually stopped them, the dems would be far more popular than just throwing their hands up and saying "better things aren’t possible.

            This is basically what FDR did with a lot of his social and work programs during his presidency. He’d establish an agency or authority or whatever, regardless of the legality, and by the time the court’s or whoever made the decision to close it, they’d have 5 others going simultaneously, and/or they’d make another one. And the process would start all over again.

            • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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              6 hours ago

              Yup. The nice thing about policy that helps everyone is that it’s incredibly unpopular to kill. Biden could have burned student debt in the most visible way possible, and then dared the SCOTUS to create new debt. If they took the bait, you’d have 46.2 million people ready to vote for anyone who promises to expand the SCOTUS.

        • theparadox@lemmy.world
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          7 hours ago
          1. It would have to go through congress, which wouldn’t approve it, so it would be a lie.

          The policies are extremely popular and universal. Doesn’t really matter in a politicalcampaign if you struggle to achieve those ends. Trying is important and failing gives you ammunition against those who oppose extremely popular policies for next campaign.

          1. They told people “I won’t do mass deportations or order the assassinations of my enemies” and it didn’t work. Why do you assume that this other stuff would?

          The bottom line is that the average person isn’t listening for anything besides “how is the candidate going to help me because I feel like I’m drowning”. The right scapegoats something and promises to fix your problems by hurting the scapegoat (immigrants, minorities, socialists, whatever). This is a lie, but it’s just as, if not more, direct of a solution so some voters will support them.

          Harris had attention when she said things like stopping price gouging and providing in-home elder care. Those were extremely popular ideas that she didn’t focus on. Instead, she pivoted right.

      • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        It’s easy to get students to protest. They’re young, it’s exciting.

        Voting isn’t loud or angry, so it doesn’t feel effective. It feels like actual work. And so they skip it.

        • John Richard@lemmy.world
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          9 hours ago

          I’m sorry, forgive me if I don’t take advice from the party that just lost. After Kamala picked Walz she was up by more than 5 points in many states that she was trailing in at the end of her campaign. People skip voting when you pick unpopular policies like Praise the Cheney’s, No Different than Zionist Joe, Billionaire Mark Cuban Is the Greatest, and Hollywood Loves Me.

          • snooggums@lemmy.world
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            9 hours ago

            Yup, other than picking Walz each new thing the campaign did made me less excited aboit voting for Harris. I would have rather had Walz lead the ticket, at least he would have been an unknown white guy that the right wing propaganda would have had trouble vilifying.

            • John Richard@lemmy.world
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              8 hours ago

              I don’t think the white guy thing is as important as at least he would have been someone that wasn’t directly tied to the White House that has been lying about genocide for the last year, or apartheid for the last 4 years.

                • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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                  8 hours ago

                  OK, but the people who are that racist and sexist are voting republican anyway. Of the dems many mistakes, running a black woman wasn’t one of them.

                  • snooggums@lemmy.world
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                    8 hours ago

                    OK, but the people who are that racist and sexist are voting republican anyway

                    No, plenty of them vote Democrat too, because the majority of the country is racist and sexist, even if it is just subconscious.

                    I’m not saying running a black woman was a mistake, just that a white man has an advantage because the population tends to favor white men.

                • gAlienLifeform@lemmy.worldOP
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                  8 hours ago

                  I don’t think you’re wrong but I also have to add that I won’t accept that we just can’t run black women for offices for that reason

                  e; I should have read this thread further, it looks like other people are already discussing this

                • John Richard@lemmy.world
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                  8 hours ago

                  I’m not pretending racism and sexism doesn’t exist, but that didn’t cause her to lose. I hope one day you’ll come to accept that.

    • snooggums@lemmy.world
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      9 hours ago

      They don’t need to lie, they just need to get better at being direct and stip pulling punches or taking the high road to avoid offending moderates or whatever their stupid logic is.

      Instead of cozying up to Cheney, just call Trump a felon constantly, remind people about how he put migrants in cages and is now using durect nazi rhetoric against them. Those aren’t lies, and they jind of half assed brought them up, but they need to actually lean in hard and constantly.

      • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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        8 hours ago

        They did call him a felon constantly! They plastered everything he says in every outlet, screamed his threats at the top of their lungs.

        No one cares!

        That doesn’t get you in people’s facebook, tiktok, and youtube feeds.

        Dems need a candidate who’s already famous. They need one totally unchained, unhinged, who would say awful but barely not illegal things in public, so they’re plastered on every news outlet constantly. They need someone who’s a little iffy about vaccines, who will print money and send people fat checks with their face stamped on it, who will straight up collude with the powerful in public, so calling it out does nothing.

        They need a liberal Trump.

        I’m not sure who it would be… maybe a big pop star that kinda loses their marbles? Think Taylor Swift. But the dems are not going to win a Trumpist election running someone like Bidden, Harris, Bernie, AoC or whatever.

    • blaue_Fledermaus@mstdn.io
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      9 hours ago

      But the left in the USA is like half a dozen people, they don’t even have a party, how would they organize it?

      Because Democrats are just a more “moderate” right.