This article by Black Rose / Rosa Negra members Frank Ascaso and Patrick Berkman takes stock of the present conjuncture around the 2024 presidential election. The “choice” before us, is no choice at all: between a program of unadorned reaction and that of friendly faced genocide. But despair and retreat aren’t adequate in the case […]
Any election with a significant difference between the candidates is worth voting in. Also, it’s vital to pursue methods of improving the world outside of showing up to vote one day every couple of years.
Anyone who’s trying to set up a dichotomy between those two ideas, in this election at least, is probably trying to trick you into not voting. That might sound harsh and suspicious, but I have a lot of trouble coming up with a reason why someone who cares about moving the world forward wouldn’t care whether or not we get Trump in charge.
I guess your comment is a good starting point for a discussion, because I disagree with many of your statements. Maybe its also because its tough to get as much nuance as needed in a comment, so I would acknowledge that you might have more nuance in your actual opinions.
Any election with a significant difference between the candidates is worth voting in.
There are lots of elections with very different candidates where the the result does not actually matter, even if the candidates are very different. The differences of outcomes can be heavily reduced by what the position is about and lots of societal factors such as compliance of institutions and general public discourse. Just wanting to add that, because while agree with the huge difference between both relevant candidates, their differences are not the only factors that decide what is going to happen.
Also, it’s vital to pursue methods of improving the world outside of showing up to vote one day every couple of years.
I dont think Harris is actually going to improve much. Being better than Trump is not an improvement, best case its just keeping a very shitty status quo from getting even worse.
trick you into not voting.
Nobody is tricking anyone here, voting is a decision people can and should make for themselves. There is no default correct, because not voting/abstaining is a valid choice in democratic processes. Yeah sure, we can debate if its the choice that is actually in the individuals best interests and so on.
but I have a lot of trouble coming up with a reason why someone who cares about moving the world forward wouldn’t care whether or not we get Trump in charge.
You are acting as if voting is the most effective way to stop Trump from getting in charge. I would say the person trying to shoot Trump was actually employing a way more effective method to reach that goal.
Also just because someone isnt voting, doesnt mean they dont care. I think saying it like that is just plain unfair to all those people deeply caring and doing tons of things but maybe not voting. Their contribution does not hinge on whether they voted or not.
Do you think things may get substantially worse under Trump? Mass deportations, shooting of protestors, cancelled elections? Are those realistic?
Do you believe that it’s possible to both vote and also pursue some other method of trying to improve things? Or does it only have to be one or the other?
It’s not one or the other.
Any election with a significant difference between the candidates is worth voting in. Also, it’s vital to pursue methods of improving the world outside of showing up to vote one day every couple of years.
Anyone who’s trying to set up a dichotomy between those two ideas, in this election at least, is probably trying to trick you into not voting. That might sound harsh and suspicious, but I have a lot of trouble coming up with a reason why someone who cares about moving the world forward wouldn’t care whether or not we get Trump in charge.
I guess your comment is a good starting point for a discussion, because I disagree with many of your statements. Maybe its also because its tough to get as much nuance as needed in a comment, so I would acknowledge that you might have more nuance in your actual opinions.
There are lots of elections with very different candidates where the the result does not actually matter, even if the candidates are very different. The differences of outcomes can be heavily reduced by what the position is about and lots of societal factors such as compliance of institutions and general public discourse. Just wanting to add that, because while agree with the huge difference between both relevant candidates, their differences are not the only factors that decide what is going to happen.
I dont think Harris is actually going to improve much. Being better than Trump is not an improvement, best case its just keeping a very shitty status quo from getting even worse.
Nobody is tricking anyone here, voting is a decision people can and should make for themselves. There is no default correct, because not voting/abstaining is a valid choice in democratic processes. Yeah sure, we can debate if its the choice that is actually in the individuals best interests and so on.
You are acting as if voting is the most effective way to stop Trump from getting in charge. I would say the person trying to shoot Trump was actually employing a way more effective method to reach that goal.
Also just because someone isnt voting, doesnt mean they dont care. I think saying it like that is just plain unfair to all those people deeply caring and doing tons of things but maybe not voting. Their contribution does not hinge on whether they voted or not.
Do you think things may get substantially worse under Trump? Mass deportations, shooting of protestors, cancelled elections? Are those realistic?
Do you believe that it’s possible to both vote and also pursue some other method of trying to improve things? Or does it only have to be one or the other?