There was a rather upsetting post recently that attracted a lot of apparently non-LGBT+ people with bad opinions. I’d like to remind everyone that “bee kind” includes not accepting, normalizing, and ignoring transphobic opinions and beliefs. We’re all together in this.
Here are some bad opinions I saw:
- “People need to be educated, and you’re not going to change their minds by becoming hostile.”
The first thing that’s obviously wrong with this is that it makes the people targeted by LGBTphobia appear to the the ones who are “overreacting” or being “hysterical,” but there’s more…
Certainly, education needs to happen, and patience is a virtue. A valid example of reasonable education to expect would be “I go by they/them now.” What education should not need to include on the part of the LGBT+ person is a defense of one’s validity as a human or one’s existence. Most people who think that it should point to examples like Daryl Davis, and I mean … good for him, but that’s not an example we all need to or even can/should follow. For many LGBT+ people, it can feel like a contant battle to live and be accepted. Expecting us to address every bad-faith argument or misguided belief on the part of LGBTphobes is … honestly, that’s just an offensive opinion in and of itself and very dismissive of reality.
- “[Famous person] literally did the bare minimum to support gay people, so I doubt they’re transphobic.”
Okay, first of all, I can only facepalm so hard before it creates a black hole that consumes the fabric of reality, but you said patient education is a thing we should do, so here it is: There are many, many people who claim to be “allies” while only supporting select groups within the LGBT+ spectrum. The reason I put “allies” in quotation marks is that these people are not allies. We are all in this together. You can’t be an ally for me, a cis gay person, without also supporting trans people. These are my siblings, my community too, and we should not tolerate it. Likewise, the LG people I’ve met who don’t support the BT+ don’t belong in this community. Full stop.
So no, supporting the LG is not really possible without supporting the BT+. Sorry, not sorry.
- “They’re from a different time.”
Absolutely one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard, and I say this as a Gen X-er. No. Just no. There has never been a time in my life that transphobia was acceptable. Perhaps it was sadly normalized in certain times and places, but it has never been okay. If anything, it’s even more important to speak up in those times and places when and where bigotry is seen as “normal.” It’s even more important then to be an ally.
And my 80+ parents are not transphobic in the least. It’s so easy to understand the basics of what it means to be trans that there is not even the shadow of an excuse.
I really don’t think vapid and pointless arguments like those above should be allowed in a space that’s supposed to be a safe and validating community. I understand some of these people may be well-meaning non-LGBT+ people, but it’s exhausting having to address the gish gallop of absolute nonsensical attempts to make transphobia seem okay. It is NOT okay, and we shouldn’t pretend that it is.
I even saw some people arguing that excluding trans people isn’t transphobic. That’s how unhinged some of these people are.
So TERFs and other transphobes stfu challenge 2023.
EDIT:
Thank you to everyone who responded with understanding. I think it had to be said. At first I wasn’t sure it was my place since I’m not trans, but I know how exhausting it can be. They did the same thing to me back in the day. It’s a silencing tactic. “Gish gallop” is the term that comes to mind.
But I’ve had a few ugly trolls in the thread behaving just as described in my post. I will report each and every one of you 💛
I’d like to remind anyone who takes issue with this rant to send your hot takes directly to my attorney where they belong. Thank you for your cooperation.
You say that
Is a bad take, but then your follow up explanation doesn’t really go into detail about the sentiment behind this statement and reads completely off topic. Do you really think hostility is necessary to educate? Like when responding to an ignorant comment, are you yelling at them? As irrational as some phobics are, I agree you’re not going to change their minds by flying off the handle and yelling at them or using hostile language. Not only do many people of all opinions respond poorly to that, the ones making bad faith arguments want you to get pissed and make you look irrational. Don’t fucking let them.
Are you misinterpreting my post? These are not arguments said by me – these are arguments that come from bad-faith actors who are polluting what are supposed to be welcoming forums by putting the onus on us to behave politely when they are coming into threads with their nonsensical gish gallop. Here you can read more about this. It’s the “You got upset, I win” bullshit that infested reddit and is now infesting Lemmy.
Sometimes, yes, and it is not my place to defend my right to exist, and now I’m yelling at you.
Again, changing their minds is not my place. In an inclusive forum, LGBT+ people don’t have to defend our right to exist constantly. If someone wants to learn, there are places they can go that won’t exhaust a bunch of innocent people trying to exist.
Yes, and this is why they need to be removed from this community. They don’t belong in a space that is supposed to be validating and welcoming to all.
Oh wow, haven’t heard this one before a million times from bigots and their defenders. Thanks for the contribution, Dr. Phil. Now go fuck yourself. Reported.
i don’t know why you’ve reported this because the person you’re talking to clearly is not doing what you’re charging them of doing. they just disagree with you–and, well, we’re not going to throw someone who clearly isn’t a bad faith actor or a nazi off the site for disagreeing with you on whether or not hostility toward transphobes is a good tactic or not.
I disagree. I don’t mind if they want to be polite to transphobes and take that approach, but I think I made it clear in my post that I’m disgusted with people who arrogantly presume to lecture us on how we need to be nicer. It’s all part of the severely misguided idea that people withdraw allyship because we’re not kind and patient enough. Sometimes anger is justified. I’d much rather someone be angry at me while defending equity and human rights, vs. someone being a polite bigot.
Please do let me know your thoughts though, because maybe it is I who needs to take a break.
Personally I feel that asking a marginalized community to “be nice” to those oppressing them is complete hogwash; I believe it was Martin Luther King Jr. who said “riots are the voice of a rebellion.”
That being said, I think that what Kolanki was trying to say is that a majority of the time, transphobes aren’t looking to have their mind changed when they log onto the internet to spread their bigotry; they’re looking for an outburst of violent reaction from the people they torment.
Oftentimes they may be looking for this as evidence to support whatever claim they’re making about trans people (they’re violent, they have an agenda, they want to take people’s kids, etc). Coming from a background of abuse, I agree that we shouldn’t feed the bigots much like one shouldn’t feed trolls; they never leave once you start unless removed by force (i.e. banned from a community, in this case).
I do agree that people don’t withdraw allyship because we’re not kind or nice or patient enough or what-have-you; that is something that I have not seen personally and anecdotally from other marginalized people (in fact, I’ve tended to see the opposite).
If the argument is that people shouldn’t react with hostility towards bigots, that’s fine on the condition that the bigoted people are removed very quickly. No hearing them out. No giving them the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise the space is just tolerating them with extra steps.
If that truly is the case, I guess I did. My bad. But considering you said it was a bad opinion you saw, and not someone else saying that opinion was bad, you should maybe reword your post or re-read mine because I disagree that one argument is a bad opinion.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. Two misunderstandings, but your first instinct is to tell me to go fuck myself and report my comment. Now it’s hard to tell you’re actually being genuine about this argument not being your own. You’re not going to change minds by being a cunt and just having them removed. You clearly do not care about changing opinions; just protecting your own.
I mean, swap out the implied “protecting your own (opinion)” with “protecting your own (place on the Internet where we can live largely free from well-meaning but ignorant people, actual bigots, and sea lions)” and I do think that was OP’s point, yes.
That’s valid; but that’s not going to change people’s minds which is exactly what the original statement was talking about. If you’re actually going to engage in a discussion with these people, hostility won’t help. Just block them, and if they are violating the rules of the community/instance, report them. You’re just wasting energy if the only thing you’re going to engage with is name-calling; even if it is warranted.
It is literally part of Beehaw rules to be nice to each others, cf this excerpt from beehaw rules:
It is also part of the rules to not be transphobic, cf
If you find a transphobic post and you feel that you are unable to reply nicely, the correct course of action would be to report said transphobic post.
If you are not content with this rule of “be nice” I’m afraid Beehaw is not for you
It’s what I call the “4chan mentality” where they just want you to react - they’ll do or say anything to get you to interact with them. As long as you’re responding, they feel like they won on some level.
But getting upset and hostile doesn’t stop them. They enjoy that. That’s part of the problem.
“Never argue with stupid people they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience” -Mark Twain
Besides which, it’s not kind to spew vitriol, nor is it productive. It’s certainly understandable to be outraged. It makes sense. You certainly can’t ignore such things, it’s not right. Responding in hatred only feeds the conviction of the ignorant and diminishes the righteousness of your own stance.
It’s a lose-lose.
I won’t even start talking about who benefits from everyone fighting each other… Certainly not us!
Bad take. I don’t want it to be up to me as a trans person to educate anyone anymore. And if they’re bad faith ban them lmao.
No, this is a bad take. You’re in the best possible position to educate people about your own thoughts, feelings, and what it is like being trans. Your voice can make changes that would help other trans people. If everyone shared this attitude, the only people educating others about trans would be non-trans people who have no idea what it’s like to be trans.
If they truly are in bad faith, you would still have to engage them beyond reading one question to know that for sure, and this side of the LGBTQA+ community has a really bad habit of immediately being triggered by pretty much any questions about trans topics, regardless of how they are presented or by whom.
It’s not a trans persons responsibility to have to explain their existence though. Can you imagine how exhausting that would be? Give them a break. Give them some cover. I actually love all my trans friends and I try to listen and see what they want. I don’t put the burden on them to be the trans explainer in all situations.
I just give them love when they need it, and an ear when they need it. I think, just like all of us, they just want to exist and not be hassled about it most times, and if given the right space and the right moment they might tell you about their experience and maybe you’ll get a chance to help.
I see this as being the difference between covering a friend and coddling them. I’ll defend everyone in this community with my life if it came to it. But I’m not going to coddle anyone from non-threats, and take the time to actually make sure if someone is simply curious or is a bad faith actor before hand. While it can be obvious sometimes, many times it’s just a non-trans ally who wants to learn. I think it’s best to give benefit of the doubt at first, until any ulterior motives are exposed.
oh my god if educating transphobes was our job we’d never have time to do anything else
I read this thread and I agree with you. I can’t give up on those who don’t understand.
I wanna add though, I chose Blahaj Zone (the trans safe space instance) because I’m finding arguments distracting. I think at this point, I get a lot more pride and hope out of finding out an artist or musician is trans. Everytime Pigstep plays in minecraft I just stand there and enjoy it.