I’ve got a bag of potatoes in my cupboard that will outlast a Renault tho
Funny. I’ve been driving Renault pretty much my entire life, starting with a then 16 year old Renault 19. Which lasted until I totalled it in a one-sided accident 4 years later (misjudged the distance to a fence)
Only issue I ever had with that car was a broken drive shaft. And that was the worst thing that I’ve ever encountered with Renault cars.
IDK much about Renault’s, or cars for that matter, but isn’t renault one of the badges which is really just a badge now?
My grandfather swore by renaults. They were expensive because they were imported from France (to Australia).
Now, they’re one of the cheapest cars on the road because they’re manufactured in Korea. They have terrible resale value because rightly or wrongly, they’re perceived to be very poor quality.
What I mean to say is, does renault the company really make cars, or do they just license their badge to whoever can make the cheapest Megane? I honestly don’t know but that’s the impression I get.
If you’ve been driving old Renaults your whole life I absolutely 100000 percent guaran-fuckin-tee that’s not the only problem you’ve had
Source - multiple Renault owner over the decades
Nope, that’s been seriously the only problem I’ve ever had with Renaults. Maybe I’ve been very lucky. But with my Clio previously and now my Megane that I’ve had for five years now, I haven’t had a single issue. *knocks on wood*
Aren’t you afraid you will need to change the (ICE) motor? Those are costly and tend to fail more often than batteries, you know?
Not particularly. New motor for my car is like $3500 and I have the knowledge to swap it myself. That’s similar or cheaper than the battery swaps I’ve heard about. I still think EV’s are a good idea but this particular issue is not why.
It’s actually a concern that depending on the vehicle I won’t be able to swap a battery out on an EV myself. Some of them are huge and exceedingly heavy. So they require special tools / lifts to do it safely.
You seem niche.
Most people don’t have the time or knowledge to swap a car engine tho? That’s a huge cost factor in this equation.
Yeah, some of us have skills others don’t. You’d not want to ride a car where I’ve swapped the engine, I’ll tell you that.
My comment is, however, a paraphrase on the two most common questions regarding EVs. From people who doesn’t, unlike you, know how to change a transmission. If ICE cars are as unreliable compared to EVs as alluded to in the article, then EVs should be considered the safe and reliable option…
I think that is the question. The Nissan Leaf gave the entire industry a bad taste because they did not (and still do not) actively cool their batteries. I’m not sure we ever recovered from that. They lasted like 40k miles. So that’s the perception that we’re battling, that batteries only last ~100k miles vs. ICE powertrains that last twice as long.
That didn’t stop Nissan to conclude that the batteries lasted twice as long as the rest of the car. The number of (newish# cars taken out of traffic each year is higher than we expect.
That’s odd as the insurance costs for electric vehicles keep going up. A large chuck of which is the cost for repair or the likelihood of minor damage (e.g battery pack) resulting in a write off.
https://www.ft.com/content/9a353ff6-ce86-4c53-b736-a1f24fdabe80
So in a perfect world where the EV works perfectly all it’s life then they probably will.
However in a world with other drivers and faults that even Renault can’t repair in their own cars resulting in write-offs (can’t find the article on that one) then we aren’t there yet.
Not anti electric vehicles just this statement at this moment is false.
You’re comparing two different scenarios. Let’s say you have two cups, one is made out of paper and the other is made of glass. They’re 6 feet off a concrete patio. Wind isn’t an issue.
Let them sit forever, and the paper one will disintegrate long before the glass does. Tip them over, and the glass one will shatter.
Nice fantasy you’ve got there. Funny how you specifically call out ‘no wind’. While the poster you’re deriding isn’t making up fantasy scenarios and is going by real world actual implications. Are people buying their cars to hide them in garages and never use them.
My point is, something can be more durable but also more fragile. The original article was talking about the durability, and the original commenter couldn’t comprehend that because of an entirely different variable that was never part of the original point.
What on earth are you talking about?
Part of the car ownership and life is driving and using it.
If neither of them was driven or used then ICE still wins. What do you think happens to batteries if you let them sit and completely discharge?
So sitting in a garage unused = expressive electric brick. For ICE that’s a car that can be restored in some way
Using them on the roads and getting damage to the battery pack = a write off for an electric car. The level of damage needed to write off an ICE car is much higher. They’re much more repairable.
Yes theoretically an EV should outlast an ICE but in the real world they won’t at the moment.
This is backed by the much higher insurance costs for EVs.
An ICE vehicle left in a garage when petrol in it will have significant issues after a time. The fuel will oxidize and turn to varnish, ruining the fuel pump and valves. Repair can be quite expensive, depending on how thoroughly gummed up things get.
Yes it will but it will always be significantly cheaper to repair. Since 40% of the cost of an electric car is the battery even minor damage to those means that repair is just not viable.
I didn’t mean “sitting in a garage not getting used”, I meant “getting used, but not getting in an unpredictable accident”
Accidents are an additional variable outside of what the original article is talking about
Ah so you’re still talking about some hypothetical situation where EVs get used but don’t have to deal with real world driving issues.
Yes in that very specific hypothetical situation an EV may outlast an ICE. However the ICE is getting no damage either in this world. So who can say.
However Renault saying they will last longer than ICE because the batteries aren’t aging as badly as they thought is still completely untrue. Far more issues with long term EV ownership than just battery age.
When we have some 20 year plus EVs with hundreds of thousands of miles on them still driving around then maybe that will be true.
Far more issues with long term EV ownership than just battery age
Would you care to elaborate and show a reasonably credible source backing up whatever you think is such a big problem?
Ah so now it’s elaboration and credible sources.
I’m already one up on this with an article from the FT about insurance costs being higher due to the increased likelihood of an electric car write off.
How about some actual evidence they’re more reliable? Other than your bizarre hypothetical arguments.
Here’s a couple just off the top of my head that I can’t be bothered to get links for.
Tied to the dealer. There’s very few independent EV garages. 95% of the time you’ll have to take the price for any repair they offer you. You can’t shop around.
Complexity. Although they often use the “one moving part” argument with all the extra infrastructure for charging etc they can have very bespoke electric parts. Which means no simple of the shelf pattern parts that are as good for much less. Dealer parts only.
Delay in these parts. There just isn’t enough of a parts infrastructure at the moment. This can even cover simple things like lights or trim.
Not enough technicians.
Ah so now it’s elaboration and credible sources.
Uh, yeah? If you’re going to make a vague claim without evidence it’s fair to ask for details and some assurance that you’re not making things up
I’m already one up on this with an article from the FT about insurance costs being higher due to the increased likelihood of an electric car write off.
How about some actual evidence they’re more reliable? Other than your bizarre hypothetical arguments.
Again, you’re talking about fragility - something being easy to break when acted on by an external thing. Reliability is about a car breaking down on its own. Something can be fragile, unreliable, both, or neither.
Tied to the dealer. There’s very few independent EV garages. 95% of the time you’ll have to take the price for any repair they offer you. You can’t shop around.
Still has nothing to do with the likelihood of a car breaking down with normal use - in fact, you’re kind of proving my point because if they did break down all the time, maybe you’d see EV shops opening up? Or existing shops branching out? Not sure why you think they’d refuse the business opportunity
Complexity. Although they often use the “one moving part” argument with all the extra infrastructure for charging etc they can have very bespoke electric parts. Which means no simple of the shelf pattern parts that are as good for much less. Dealer parts only.
Delay in these parts. There just isn’t enough of a parts infrastructure at the moment. This can even cover simple things like lights or trim.
Not enough technicians.
Again, NONE of this has anything to do with the likelihood of a car breaking down. You’re predicting (maybe accurately, maybe not) what would happen if a breakdown were to happen. And your points aren’t really inherent to electric vehicles as much as they are to less-common ones. Much of what you said could apply to a kei truck brought in from Japan, a decades-old car, a supercar, or a car you just don’t see on the road as often like a Smart car or Mini Cooper.
