I’m looking for a programming language that can help me build a desktop application for Windows, macOS, and Linux that’s not big but not small either. Additionally, I’d like to be able to build a website with the same language. I’ve been considering Ruby, Python, Golang and JavaScript. Python seems to be mainly used for scripting and ai, so I’m not sure if it’s the best fit. JavaScript has a lot of negative opinions surrounding it, while Ruby sounds interesting. Can anyone recommend a language that meets my requirements?
Python can do both scripts and desktop apps no problems
But use type annotations everywhere and make sure your code is always checker clean (with checkin or PR CI hooks). And don’t turn off any lint checks through laziness, e.g. docstring checks. Even for a solo dev it’s always worth having everything typed, checker clean, and docstrings (even if they only effectively say “this thing really is what you’d assume”). It all saves time and effort in the long and even medium term.
I’ve worked on serious large scale Python projects and frankly it’s been very pleasant and productive, but only with the above conditions.
So many websites out there are built on Django, Flask, etc. (YouTube must have spent a decade using Python, Instagram, Threads etc. all use Python and optimize as they need).
But what about websites.
I’m writing a web app on Python + HTMX. Little to none javascript involved.
If it’s something simple you can check out FastAPI. For more complicated projects involving data models and relationships, check out Django.
May I recommend Litestar over FastApi?
It can do back ends with django and flask but the only choice for front ends is javascript or something like htmx
Javascript
WASM
To be fair, all three can probably do what you’re asking for, in building a desktop application. So the real question comes as which flavor of language do you want to write. The only language of the three I can’t speak on is Ruby, as I haven’t used it.
Python is a “scripting language”, but by that token technically so is Javascript. It’s an immensely popular language due to its simple syntax, yet complex features as you get better with it. Python can build large-ish applications: web apps, desktop apps, terminal apps, and yes also of course AI, bulk data processing, etc. For GUI applications, I’ve personally used pyqt (4? 5? 6?)
Much of the same can be said for Javascript. As you said, there are “negative opinions” about JS, but everyone has their opinions (most factually-based) on the goods and bads of languages (although, yes, JS does get more negative opinions than others). Yet, Javascript is still a widely used language, and you’ll probably end up needing learning it anyway if you decide to go into web development.
What I personally suggest is this:
- See the learn x in y minutes pages for Python, Javascript, and Ruby. Make sense of the quick-tour of the languages.
- Make a simple project using each of the three languages. Something that just reads something from STDIN, does some work, prints stuff, as an example. This helps you get to know the basics of the syntax, tooling, and quirks of a language, and helps you narrow down which language you’d like to be working further with.
- Pick one of the languages you’re leaning in favor of and go build your application. If you come to a point where you feel like the language you choose is no longer suitable for what you wanted to do, you can always retry with another language, and then you will know at least a fair part of more than one language.
I think I’ll just focus on learning one thing at a time to get a better feel for the basic concepts, rather than worrying about what’s the best approach and then try out some, thanks a lot for the response! It really helped me decide to just get started instead of dwelling on the details.
There’s no answer to this. All can do what you want in varying degrees. With Opal you can compile Ruby to JavaScript for your frontend for example. Or with electron you can use JavaScript as desktop application.
You gotta say much more about the actual requirements to make any meaningful comparison.
Without saying what you want the app to do you can’t pick the language, it’s like saying what should I make my house out of? wood, concrete, or ice.
Electron is a well known framework for multiplatform apps. It could be your starting point.Definitely JS if you want to also have a website. Use electron to turn your website into an executable for the desktop. Python+qt is ok for Desktop apps, but does not work for a website.
Languages that compile to wasm would also be an option, (e.g. https://egui.rs with rust), but as far as i am aware none of the languages you’ve listed are in that set. (Only go would even be a contender between python, ruby, js and go)
Electron is the way to go for what the OP described
If “build the server and client in the same language” is a hard requirement, I believe your only choice is JavaScript…
The tone of the post makes me think you’re newer to programming, so I’ll leave it at that, as extensions to this question can overwhelm quickly, but yeah, JavaScript is a fine language for what you’re doing
Thank you alot for the response. And yes, I don’t have a lot of programming experience
desktop application for Windows, macOS, and Linux
Nothing does cross-platform desktop apps as well as Qt.
Definitely not Electron, which is very wasteful of system resources and has endless desktop integration bugs. Not Flutter. Not WxWidgets. Not Gtk. Not any of the various Java or Rust frameworks. Not Dear ImGui. Nothing. (Well, I haven’t tried Lazarus yet, but it requires a language that’s not on your list, so is probably not relevant here.)
Some of the newer frameworks might shape up eventually, but it would take years of focused effort. This is an area of computing that is difficult to do well.
I’ve been considering Ruby, Python, Golang and JavaScript
Of those languages, I would choose Python with either PySide or PyQt. If my interface needs were very simple, I might also consider Qt Quick, which lets you build GUIs with JavaScript and a declarative language called QML.
Thanks i will look into PySide and PyQt. I also think all kde apps are build with Qt
I can vouch for PyQt, it works quite well for what it is. Be aware you might have to dig into the C++ docs if you’re trying to do something non-trivial.
If you like, you can use Qt Creator to build the GUI template, and then basically import into Python and build all the logic.
Just a bit more perspective for you:
https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#technology-most-popular-technologies
More than half of professional developers use at least some JavaScript, and almost half of us also use Python.
So both of those are likely to be worth the effort to learn.
That said, as a diehard Python programmer, if I was forced to pick a single language to focus on, it would be JavaScript. JavaScript runs almost everywhere, and it specifically is the only decent option in a few places, such as Web app browser code.
But also, while I’m fluent in a couple dozen languages, my preferred go-to language is still Python.
Im biased here, ive been learning python for almost 16 months and only dabbled in Javascript and never did any Ruby, but for a first language, i think python is fantastic. Its “easy” enough to keep you feeling like your skill is actually improving, while still being able to do pretty much anything (where performance is not a high priority). I also just think javascript is ugly to look at.
I would start with Python it’ll help demystify a lot of programming terminology and methods. I have managed to avoid JS for now but I have to learn it and for web you need at least a basic amount plus you could prob stay in the JS ecosystem for pretty much everything you want to do. Ruby is cool it’s coming back but like Python it tends to be more common on the back-end, that being said there’s some really interesting languages that have spun off it.
I would go Python till you hit a wall it’ll prob be the GUI then learn JS
If I want to build websites and gui apps, would you still recommend using Python over JavaScript.
Python is good for quick results and it’ll help maintain a good hits as your learning. But no there’s a reason JS is so popular and people keep spinning up tools based off it.
You will need more that just one language, if you think you can stay self-motivated for your goals I’d go JS.
Maybe you should consider a server & client architecture to use the right tool for the right job on each platform.
C#. Or Python if you must. Don’t use Javascript.
One of the reasons I think JS gets a lot of hate is the tooling is a bit of a mess. If you go that route I encourage you to generate or find a barebones project to start from. Getting that very first “Hello World” app to run can be a massive pain in the ass.
I also don’t think the requirement to a desktop app and website in the same language is being fair. It’s definitely possible but different languages have different strengths. It shouldn’t make your brain explode to deal with more than one language and I think you could benefit from a shift in mindset. When I’m in JS world I know l I’ve gotta let go of performance and security desires (i.e. JS in the browser is a “clear box” and users can fully control it). When I’m in Java I know those things are highly important but also to not stress about “presentation”.
You’re probably looking for Java. Not JavaScript, Java.
They explicitly said they want to build a website. Not that you can’t go far with a Java server + HTML(X) but JS is the de facto standard for interactive websites.
Idk how I missed that. I only saw the desktop program part and the languages listed after it. I completely overlooked the website part, unless it was edited or something. But yeah, for websites JavaScript is the go-to for front-end and there are even some decent back-end options these days, although development and deployment gets a lot more complicated if you go that route. Java is still popular as a backend language for website development, and there are frameworks that have out of the box components that give you the JavaScript for free, but they’re typically expensive enterprise solutions like Adobe Experience Manager.
Edit: I just checked and it was edited, so they might have added that part after I wrote my reply.
Why java
I missed the part where you said you’re also interested in building a website. Java is a popular and powerful programming language for desktop and mobile development. You can also use it with a framework for back-end website development, but there are better options out there. If you want something that does everything you posted then JavaScript is actually a good option. You’ll need frameworks for back-end website development and desktop development, but it’s kind of a beginner friendly language, and ChatGPT can help you set up the frameworks. It does get complicated working in the different stacks though. What do you want to build first?
Because it’s 2003
Spend a week or two with each if you can, even if you don’t stick with any you’ll be able to tell what parts you did or didn’t prefer or found difficult or easy that might help make a more informed choice. You might prefer the language features or syntax of one, but the tool chain or frameworks of another.
