Do any of them know what the word “liberal” actually means?

  • FozzyOsbourne@lemm.eeOP
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    6 months ago

    My thoughts exactly! Every real-life human I’ve ever spoken to uses it to mean open-minded and every definition I look up agrees, yet for some reason half the people posting here think it exclusively means economically-neo-liberal capitalist.

    • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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      6 months ago

      The context is typically pretty important for how it is being used. The user of the term often provides more than enough context I find.

      If ‘liberal’ is being used in a derogatory sense, which isn’t going to be captured by an academic definition, it’s often aimed at neoliberalism in a pretty broad sense.

      Which is probably what this meme is referring to: the shared rejection of neoliberalism. The motivations are different but that’s immaterial to these things. I mean: it is specifically referencing an American political party here: so I wouldn’t be looking for a political science definition on ‘liberal’.

        • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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          6 months ago

          Those statements are both true, but: Neoliberalism dominates both political parties in the United States and has for generations. The Democratic Party is also neoliberal, (often in spite of their voters.)

          The Republican Party’s neoliberalism has fostered fascist and christian nationalist factions to the point they may take over.

          The Democratic Party’s stance has been to try and absorb disaffected Republican neoliberal voters from the above.

          Which leaves ‘non-neoliberal American liberals’ with the choice of supporting… well it is and has been a successful right wing strategy to say the least.

    • grrgyle@slrpnk.net
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      6 months ago

      Yeah these are old school definitions, like how a “liberal education” means you get a broad education in differing perspectives (ironically, this term is now associated with a Eurocentric take on topics). In the same sense, “liberal policies” would mean freedom of religion, sexuality, etc.

      All good things that progressives agree with, but it also entails more pernicious property rights, and the protection of the state/establishment against those who threaten those rights.

      It doesn’t necessarily have to be this way, but this is what I believe it’s come to mean in practice. It also has very little to do with how one votes, especially in a democracy like the U.S. where you’ve just got your “monkey loves you” and “monkey needs a hug” choices.

    • Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      It’s easier than accepting nuance, and it’s usually from the same people who demonstrate that same lack of nuance in everything else they post.

    • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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      6 months ago

      1 favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

      2 noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.

      3 of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.

      4 favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.

      5 favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression:

      6 of or relating to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.

      7 free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant

      8 open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.

      Only 5,7 and 8 are “open minded” Being favorable to progress does not mean being open minded and what constitutes as progressive is in itself up to debate. Individual rights and liberties can be understood as neo-liberal capitalism of “well the law allows you, your economic situation doesn’t concern us, and now back to slaving 60 hours a week.” Or it could mean “We need to enable people to enjoy their liberties so we need to ensure their basic human dignity with healthcare, education and social welfare to empower them.”

      • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        what the fuck is number 1 then?

        favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

        what is number 2 then?

        noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.

        I think if you go point by point and ignore the rest then you can argue semantics, but I don’t see how you can take all 8 together and argue what “progressive” means