I may just be more Materialist than Idealist, but I don’t think people can merely be convinced of the correct take based on evidence or sound logic, they must also be at a point materially that allows for ideas that challenge their predisposed narrative to penetrate.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to withhold pretty straightforward relevant information until my imagined picture of the person reading it reaches a point where they’re ready for it.
Honestly, I have no idea what the average Lemmy reader is or isn’t ready for or accepting of. Why do you assume that all or even most of the people reading my message aren’t at a point where this pretty bland information would be useful to them?
Ha, fair enough. So let me rephrase: I am not “reaching out to disaffected leftists.” I’m just saying how I see it and why. If someone’s triggered by seeing a comment saying some good things Biden has done and starts literally shaking and crying and decides I am wrong about everything, then it is a shame but I don’t think it needs to be my responsibility to prevent that. I think that person needs to become capable over time of seeing things they disagree with without freaking out about it. It’ll be good for them.
Maybe that is a majority of Lemmy, IDK (and certainly lemmy.ml seems like it’s like that), so that a “kid gloves” gradual transition to the truth approach would be better, but in my experience people generally like the “here are facts and citations” stuff well enough, and saying I should stay away from it until this one category of people decides it would be acceptable to them, seems like it might do more harm than good to the messaging overall. And anyway, it’s honestly just not what I want to do – like I say I’m not here to “reach out” with my message. I just like talking about this stuff.
I think it’s more that you agree that Capitalism isn’t the way, but haven’t put forth the same amount of effort into reading leftist theory so it comes off as condescending yet unearned. Maybe open with questions, and try to understand first, before listing your own opinions?
I was setting out to talk about the election, nothing about capitalism. You brought capitalism into it, I think. I actually think capitalism constrained by a very strong democratic government is the best system (historically) in terms of good quality of life and free environment for people inside and outside the country, that I’m aware of, but I don’t really know.
I don’t think it’s fair to ask me to read a bunch of leftist theory before I have an opinion either on the election or on economics. I have my opinion on it and maybe it comes across as lecturing sometimes, but genuinely I’m just saying what I think.
I think I’ve been asking a bunch of questions, in general, trying to understand. No?
You’d be wrong then. Capitalism “working well,” such as in the Nordics, depends on Imperialism and internal exploitation. Socialism would be far better both in and out.
It’s fair to ask that you read theory if you wish to debate it.
I wrote about Biden, and you started debating me. Is it fair for me to ask you to read a few thousand words about what Biden’s done, if you wish to debate me about his record? I can find some extensive summary and send it to you. That’s way less than you’re asking me to read before I debate you about communism.
I may just be more Materialist than Idealist, but I don’t think people can merely be convinced of the correct take based on evidence or sound logic, they must also be at a point materially that allows for ideas that challenge their predisposed narrative to penetrate.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to withhold pretty straightforward relevant information until my imagined picture of the person reading it reaches a point where they’re ready for it.
Honestly, I have no idea what the average Lemmy reader is or isn’t ready for or accepting of. Why do you assume that all or even most of the people reading my message aren’t at a point where this pretty bland information would be useful to them?
I was just responding to your position that some people aren’t worth convincing.
Ha, fair enough. So let me rephrase: I am not “reaching out to disaffected leftists.” I’m just saying how I see it and why. If someone’s triggered by seeing a comment saying some good things Biden has done and starts literally shaking and crying and decides I am wrong about everything, then it is a shame but I don’t think it needs to be my responsibility to prevent that. I think that person needs to become capable over time of seeing things they disagree with without freaking out about it. It’ll be good for them.
Maybe that is a majority of Lemmy, IDK (and certainly lemmy.ml seems like it’s like that), so that a “kid gloves” gradual transition to the truth approach would be better, but in my experience people generally like the “here are facts and citations” stuff well enough, and saying I should stay away from it until this one category of people decides it would be acceptable to them, seems like it might do more harm than good to the messaging overall. And anyway, it’s honestly just not what I want to do – like I say I’m not here to “reach out” with my message. I just like talking about this stuff.
I think it’s more that you agree that Capitalism isn’t the way, but haven’t put forth the same amount of effort into reading leftist theory so it comes off as condescending yet unearned. Maybe open with questions, and try to understand first, before listing your own opinions?
I was setting out to talk about the election, nothing about capitalism. You brought capitalism into it, I think. I actually think capitalism constrained by a very strong democratic government is the best system (historically) in terms of good quality of life and free environment for people inside and outside the country, that I’m aware of, but I don’t really know.
I don’t think it’s fair to ask me to read a bunch of leftist theory before I have an opinion either on the election or on economics. I have my opinion on it and maybe it comes across as lecturing sometimes, but genuinely I’m just saying what I think.
I think I’ve been asking a bunch of questions, in general, trying to understand. No?
You’d be wrong then. Capitalism “working well,” such as in the Nordics, depends on Imperialism and internal exploitation. Socialism would be far better both in and out.
It’s fair to ask that you read theory if you wish to debate it.
I wrote about Biden, and you started debating me. Is it fair for me to ask you to read a few thousand words about what Biden’s done, if you wish to debate me about his record? I can find some extensive summary and send it to you. That’s way less than you’re asking me to read before I debate you about communism.
Actually, you started debating me first, if you return to the top of the comment chain.