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The bear is honest, either it eats you or it fucks off. The bear would never pretend to be friendly to gain your trust, or pretend to fuck off and instead stalk you for days. I can more accurately surmise a bears intentions than i can for any random man because all the bear could possibly want out of me is a meager amount of food.
Men getting angry about this are being upset by the possibility that they could potentially be considered threatening, by a completely uninformed third party nonetheless. And their chosen recourse is to demonstrate threatening behavior.
Some men are real snowflakes tbh
I’m a man and I endorse this message.
One thing about being a man is other men drop their guards around you and say the things they believe about their roles regarding women and masculinity. In my experience, most men are fine. Many are confused about who they are and their place in the world but do their best to be good people. Other men are just rotten, selfish, and/or broken people for many reasons. They’re often victims of abuse who perpetuate that abuse.
Some, though, are also confused and do their best, but what their best looks like is informed by people like Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson. They believe women are somehow subhuman and that treating them as such is natural, right, and good. They believe in a social hierarchy and that might makes right. These are the men to worry about. The bad men I mentioned before generally know they’re bad or are broken enough that one can notice. These guys, though, appear normal but will absolutely fuck you over to get what they believe they deserve, all the while patting themselves on the back for being such an upstanding person who is “just enforcing the natural order”.
That’s why I’d also choose the bear.
Ugh. I hate it when some misogynistic asshole assumes I agree with his views on women because I have the same downstairs anatomy as he does. Fuck you and stop “🙄 women…” around me. You’d be the first one to whine about a woman doing the same thing about men.
Animals fear men for a reason. Men’s BO triggers an acute fear response in rabbits, guinea pigs, rats, mice and hamsters. This experiment did require the animal to be sacrificed, hence why it only involves common laboratory animals.
Anyway. They noticed men would underestimate the suffering of a laboratory animal. They already knew that prey animals hide their pain when they are scared. This is to make them less of an easy target for birds of prey to hunt. Because a limping rabbit, is a much easier meal.
The reason why there was a difference in welfare scoring done by men and women, was because this fear response got triggered. They did an experiment where they had shirts be worn by a man, woman or both for 24 hours. Found that the animals didn’t care for smells of women, but feared BO from men. It wasn’t a skill issue, or lack of empathy.
We also find in wolves who are used to humans, that they are more hostile towards strange men than they are towards strange women.
Testosterone is not a friendly hormone. It leads to being easily agitatated in all mammals. The only reason higher levels of androgens in humans, correlates with decreased aggressive behaviour is because when we produce more androgens, we produce more estrogens. Which in turn fascilitate communication between two regions in the brain that determine emotional impulses and whether or not the person acts on it. Hence why men are less aware of their emotions (it’s not just societal influence), more impulsive and more easily agitated/aggressive than women.
With bears you know what you can expect. And there are even things that can be done to save yourself. But with men? You never really know their intentions. It’s why women’s intuition exists at the level it does.
This is terrible logic to go by.
If you generalise half the population and insult them then of course people are going to be mad at you.
This is like some boomer saying “All feminists are easily offended lesbians that just like to shout out people”
Then smugly being like “haha you proved my point” when a femininst rightly takes issue with that statement.
Also bears can’t type, which introduces a massive bias during data collection.
reminds me of this somethingawful ancient meme:
This is also an indicator of the world’s best insult as per the comic Basic Instructions:
“I find you argumentative and easily offended.”
Basically no one is allowed to respond to it.
I havent read the article, but from the heading and the teaser of it it seems to be a personal opinion piece of what she would prefer and asking other women about it.
Where exactly does she actively insult all men?
Where exactly does she actively insult all men?
The part about saying she would prefer being alone in the woods with an animal that would maul and eat her alive than being with [insert trait you were born with].
If you don’t think it’s insulting, switch out the word “men” with gay/jew/trans or any other group of people and ask if those people would feel insulted.
It’s a statement that very likely would be removed by moderators and gotten you banned on certain instances on Lemmy if you did. I honestly don’t believe you’re asking that question in good faith.
Boo fucking hoo.
It sure is hard being a man, amirite? /s
Yeah…honestly I’d also prefer the bear.
The question is loaded, see, because men can be bears, but bears cannot be men.
Yes, I know the question is about actual bears, leave my terrible, repeated joke alone
You can teach a man to fish.
Bears already know how to fish. So aren’t they just innocent men? alt.And I don’t think anyone could teach a fish to bear what’s going on in the world.
Do not let the 1% divide the sexes.
Solidarity amongst all human beings, and whatever gender they may be.
That said, people who are a smaller stature deserve the ability to defend themselves from other larger individuals. I wonder how the handmaids tale would have gone if all the women had AK-47s?
I wonder how the handmaids tale would have gone if all the women had AK-47s?
This is known as ‘The Nazi Gun Control Argument.’
Afghanis drove out multiple world powers with rifles and homemade bombs.
How did that work out for them?
What argument are you making here?
I already made it. The Nazi Gun Control argument. Afghanistan is back to how it was before the U.S. invaded, thousands of deaths later, so if that’s an example of how the Nazi Gun Control argument is false, it’s a poor one.
Are you saying that there is a problem with Afghani culture, and that American culture is better or more valuable?
Afghan. Afghani is a currency.
Maybe it’s because i’m a man, but this trend saddens me. I don’t often see what the other gender thinks of us, but the fact that a big part of us are a bother that all off us should be seen as more dangerous than a bear. Damn…
It’s because casual misandry is socially acceptable.
Not entirely. It’s also because men have historically been bad about telling creepy and misogynistic men to back off and shut the fuck up.
I would sooner see men step up and call out the bad actors – and I say that as a man who’s done so. Don’t teach your daughters that they need to be wary about what they wear, teach your sons to respect and not rape women.
I would sooner see men step up and call out the bad actors
And I would be happy to join you in doing this, but this is not the company I keep. In my life I can barely count the number of times I have, or could have, on one hand. Meanwhile, when talking to women about this sort of thing, everyone has awful stories but they all involve people that simply are not a part of their social sphere (and by extension mine) anymore.
I fear that we, as a society, have done such a good job of pushing bad actors out to the margins that we no longer have eyes on the problem.
Part of the problem is that men are simply not on alert for bad behavior. They have the luxury of being unaware. When my friend’s dad groped me at a party, I was in a conversation circle with him and 3 of my male friends. None of them noticed him doing it, none of them noticed me going stiff and pale. None of them questioned why I suddenly felt sick and immediately called an Uber to leave.
The dad felt totally comfortable to do that literally less than 2 feet from three other men because you guys aren’t looking out for it in a way that women are. Alternatively, I’ve had stranger women come up to me in public to ask me if I’m uncomfortable because a guy at a gas station is talking to me while I pump my gas. We’re looking out for each other.
“We all a society” have absolutely not pushed out bad actors. If anything, women have closed ranks, but in my experience the men have not, without explicit instruction, called out bad behavior.
This is not the good thing you think it is. Women shouldn’t be hyper-alert about all men, and should use words when being made uncomfortable (or literally sexually assaulted).
If I see a woman go pale and then leave a party, I will assume “oof, must have really had to poop”. I refuse to assume every facial tick on a woman is a sign of sexual assault. That’s a toxic, paranoid way to live.
I agree that women shouldn’t have to be hyper alert, but with our culture the way it is, we have to be to keep ourselves safe.
How about instead of saying I should have spoken up about a man groping me, you say, “he shouldn’t have groped you.” There’s no reason my friend’s old married father should have thought I would be comfortable with his hands on me in a bathing suit area.
I’m saying men with opinions like yours put the entire onus of safety solely on women’s shoulders forcing us to live that toxic paranoid way, as you put it. If you guys would start doing your part to police one another, women wouldn’t have to be so scared all the time.
What makes you think me speaking up would have stopped that man? He clearly had no respect for my personal space, my autonomy, or my comfort. He has already proven he is willing to break social rules and norms. The safest thing for me to do was get away, because confronting a person who does not respect or care about you, who is not bound by the social contract will more likely lead to them hurting you.
How about instead of saying I should have spoken up about a man groping me, you say, “he shouldn’t have groped you.”
How about both? It’s infantilizing for you to suggest I don’t understand a basic principle like “assault is bad”. Of course he shouldn’t have groped you. That was bad. That’s just a baseline, floor-level understanding that we should both agree on.
If you guys would start doing your part to police one another
Well, for one thing, we don’t know which guys are doing this. Even if, as you suggest, the burden should fall solely on men to stop other men (a bit of a problematic viewpoint in itself), we can’t stop it if we don’t know it’s happening. Guys don’t brag to each other about sexual assault. We just don’t talk about sex in general. “Locker room talk” is and always has been a myth. Women talk with each other. Men don’t.
We cannot read your mind and know that any particular guy has done anything bad to you. You have to say something. And if you don’t, the only other option is for everyone to constantly be asking every woman if they’re being assaulted. Like that old Verizon commercial: “are you being assaulted now? Are you being assaulted now?” which is just toxic and awful and paranoid and massively damaging to everyone’s mental health.
I can 100% understand just not wanting to deal with it. Running away and then never speaking about it, and avoiding that guy for the rest of your life is much easier than opening a can of worms.
But if you do that, you have to take responsibility for doing that. Don’t pretend “not my problem, Men should be fixing everything”.
It’s not even just that they’re at the margins, it’s also a math problem. One bad actor can sexually harass hundreds, perhaps even thousands of women over the course of many years. Now make that thousands of men, and see how it’s very reasonable that 1 in 2 women or whatever it is have been sexually harassed or assaulted - and that can still be less than 1% of the male population doing it. Anyone who doubts women get harassed or even assaulted often needs to have their head examined. There is a guy in my neighborhood currently who has not been caught who is following women while in his car. The neighborhood listservs are awash with women who have noticed this guy. There was another guy who was groping women on the trail who affected multiple women before they caught him.
And this is not just sex crimes. Recently, they arrested a group of car thieves/car jackers in my area. The four of them were responsible for over two hundred car thefts, and possibly up to three hundred additional unaccounted for crimes. And that’s for a very visible crime like stealing a car - imagine the numbers for something like groping someone on a crowded train or bus.
This is why people who say stuff like, “just teach men not to rape” are as insane as saying “just teach minorities not to steal cars”. It is a tiny portion of the population having an outsized influence because they can harm multiple people. When you start blaming a group for the actions of a tiny portion of that group, you’re just lost.
I mean sure, call out crime in general when you see it, but I have seen this type of harassment probably a dozen times in my life. And it happens all around, dozens of times a day.
You know I didn’t think about it like this. It does make sense though. I think as well it’s good to point out that the main recipients of violence and murder are other men, not women. Therefore I am suspicious when women talk about these things and being afraid but men don’t. It seems like a double standard.
I read her post some days ago and thought “she got some kinky humor”.
Now I think “She has no humor at all and was dead serious”.
Irony on the public side of internet died with Gamergate. It’s all been downhill since then.
Edit: In case this was misinterpreted, I meant that irony died when Gamergate started, because vitriol and far right dogwhistles infested everything.
I still wonder what kind of bear it would be. A Koala or Sun Bear would be OK I guess.
I have received messages from angry men
Does she actually say how many? Two is “men”
Just curious how few she’s basing her opinion of all men on.
I think the word is “misandry”, no?
I can’t take anyone seriously that cries about “misandry.”
Ok. Good for her. Anyway…I’d rather choose the bear too because a bear isn’t going to accuse me of raping it when I’m not giving it my attention or the time of day
Just returning the same energy ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Edit: Oh? so if a guy like me who has had some bad things happen due to an abusive ex says essentially the same thing, it’s not ok, but because she’s a woman, its okay? Wow, I’m SO shocked!
I just want to know how many bears she knows on a a personal level to make it possible for there to be a “strange bear”.
How are you a bot?
you can choose to be one in your profile settings
But you shouldn’t if you aren’t a bot. People filter them out.
I had no idea this was set in my profile! - I’ll have a look
Here’s the setting in Jerboa for reference. ♥️ If anyone has “show bot accounts” off they won’t see you.
No idea how I ticked it or why - explains why I could never up-vote anything.
Thank you to the men in the comments who react like humans with empathy!
But god damn there are a lot of people on this thread that are taking this VERY personally.
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Nobody is denying that men in our society deserve to be respected, nobody is saying IF YOU’RE A MAN FUCK YOU ID RATHER BE MAULED, and nobody is saying that women are always right no matter what.
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Of course the man could be weaker/not a threat. Of course he should be assumed safe. Of course everyone should respect all genders. And, OF COURSE, some women lie about rape! Yes! You do in fact have valid concerns!
HOWEVER, It is really shitty some people commenting decide to take a clear example with obvious intentions and then make it about themselves, and then abuse women in the comments… you are proving the point, and in fact, you are a huge red flag already.
This question already sets the scene, you are alone in the woods: there is a strange man OR you are alone in the woods: there is a strange bear. The man’s intentions (AND the bear’s intentions) is not clear, we only know that he is there, and he is strange. No need to make up reasons why the guy is OK, minding his business, etc. Because in the situation given, the point of the question was to ask people how they would feel lost in the woods with a man or a bear, with such a small amount of information!
The question is trying to shed light on WHY the women asked said they prefer the bear. Do they think every man -at all- is a threat? Do they think that all men will overpower and harm them"because all men want to use their strength to rape/hurt women" because they are "biologically meant to*?* and, then, where do the fears come from and what can we do to change that? Why assume the worst when everything could be just fine?
I wish people would react more like “this is very depressing, and I understand why women are sometimes afraid of men in situations out of their control” or "I am doing my part to be a safe man ". But ask yourself, “do I know someone that would clearly make a woman feel unsafe to be around?” You might know more than one person like this, and they are why we talk about this in the first place.
The best way I’ve ever heard to describe this fear women live with is this: "when I approach a bees nest, it is highly unlikely they will attack me, they are usually docile!. That does not mean I won’t try to avoid being stung. "
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The people complaining that she is being derogatory to men are the same people who would say “what do you expect going into the woods alone with a strange man? What did you think would happen?”
If I mer another man in the woods I would say hi and walk by. Bears are fucking dangerous. I really dont understand why all of you are so afraid of other people.
Way too many men are fucking dangerous. At least the bear won’t rape you.
Met a bunch of bears, never been attacked. Shrug
Been mugged 4 times by people, tho. A few others attempted.
I’ll take my chances with the bear.
Damn, you’ve only met four people in your life, and all of them mugged you?
Can you show me where I’ve said that? Also 0 out of 10 is still less than 4 out of 8 billion. And I haven’t met most people.
Because the women who answered bear on the survey have extreme contempt for men. They see men as evil predators and not people.
20% of women in the US have been sexually assaulted, almost entirely by men. 80% have been sexually harassed, almost entirely by men. Based on the number of bear attacks that occur annually in the US, approximately .000001% of women have had a negative encounter or any kind with a bear.
This is the exact same logic that racists use to excuse their prejudice against others. They assume black people are criminals because “FBI crime statistics”. You are using tragedy to excuse your hatred for half of the human population.
Assuming every man is a rapist is prejudice and is both morally and practically wrong. Men are half the population of the world.
Also, this is not a reason to answer bear on the survey unless you’re just trying to stick it to men (because of your prejudice). If you prefer to be in the company of an extremely powerful animal that is likely to maul you to death than a member of half the population, you are absolutely out of your mind and are obscenely sexist.
You know what? If I’m out in the woods alone I’m probably having some me time and I don’t want any women around anyway. Go hang out with the bear.
Imagine the stupid Pence Rule (never be alone with a woman who isn’t your wife). And framing it as you’d rather be alone with a velociraptor than a strange woman because a velociraptor is less likely to falsely accuse you of something.
I get that the point of the joke is that women think men are dangerous, but any nuance or discussion is completely out the window due to how stupid and inflammatory the framing is
