For those that don’t have aphantasia, can you do a mental face swap or do other “edits” of mental imagery and keep it consistent in your mind?
And for those that do have it, how does remembering pictures work for you? Like the Mona Lisa, or an MC Escher, or the last supper? Is any memory purely word-based or do you get flashes of imagery that aren’t really vivid but still there somewhere?
I ask because I’m not sure if I do or don’t have it. I can imagine audio much more vividly and rich than imagery, but I can still recall pictures and images as images. I can create them, but if I try to go into detail or make “edits”, I start losing it.
for me the only way i can describe aphantasia is in terms of how a computer works.
I have a visual encoder that can store images in my visual memory but lack a visual decoder to be able to display any image. like if you could only open a jpeg in notepad. that doesn’t mean the information is lost or can’t be interpreted, just that my cognitive brain deals directly with the binary format. i understand the attributes like depth or color but if asked to recall something i can only verbalize the attributes. this means i can verbalize visual concepts and memories, but can’t generate or visualize them inside my head.
the chess example i wouldn’t even consider thinking visually to see the moves ahead but create a list of possible actions. I’ve always struggled with chess as i don’t have the ability to store the depth of actions available.
Reading this post has made me realise that I haven’t deliberately used visual imagination in a long time, and I’m finding it harder to do that sort of thing now.
I used to be practically limitless in my ability to recall imagery or change it at whim. Since then I’ve gotten years deep into a cycle of overwork, distraction based entertainments, parenting, and drinking. Also, a mild case of COVID that left me feeling slightly foggy a few years ago. No idea if that’s related.
Did not plan to start my Friday at 5 am with an existential crisis, but cowabunga it is. Time to reclaim the inner empire or go mad in the attempt.
I had the same thing actually, but I got back into books and recovered a lot of it. I did have to initially make myself stop and concentrate on the visuals, sometimes reading descriptive passages multiple times to get the details down, but it comes a lot easier now. Really good feeling too get lost in a book.
As an aphantasic, I remember what I know about the Mona Lisa. I know that her lips are famous, I think her face is placed more to the right, and her hair and clothes are dark. I am not sure if you can see her hands, I would have said you cannot (I checked and I am wrong).
Apparently, I was never aware enough of her hands to know that they were in the painting. And I could not tell you how her hair lies or what her smile looks like.
It is not word-based, but just knowing. I just know the clothes are dark. There is no experience that can be edited.
When I collect the characteristics to write them down, I think in words.
I mean, it’s definitely visual, but it’s not like I could recall or recreate it photographically.
I remember certain “broad strokes”, but my brain just fills in the details with approximations (that are probably wrong). Like, I could tell you which way the Mona Lisa is facing, the color of the background, what her hair and face sort of look like, but without googling, I have no idea what clothes she is wearing.
It’s like primitive AI since it’s the same but the details aren’t there and if the details are there, I’m not getting the full picture. It can instantly swap between the two be they never seem to overlap
For those that don’t have aphantasia, can you do a mental face swap or do other “edits” of mental imagery and keep it consistent in your mind?
And for those that do have it, how does remembering pictures work for you? Like the Mona Lisa, or an MC Escher, or the last supper? Is any memory purely word-based or do you get flashes of imagery that aren’t really vivid but still there somewhere?
I ask because I’m not sure if I do or don’t have it. I can imagine audio much more vividly and rich than imagery, but I can still recall pictures and images as images. I can create them, but if I try to go into detail or make “edits”, I start losing it.
for me the only way i can describe aphantasia is in terms of how a computer works.
I have a visual encoder that can store images in my visual memory but lack a visual decoder to be able to display any image. like if you could only open a jpeg in notepad. that doesn’t mean the information is lost or can’t be interpreted, just that my cognitive brain deals directly with the binary format. i understand the attributes like depth or color but if asked to recall something i can only verbalize the attributes. this means i can verbalize visual concepts and memories, but can’t generate or visualize them inside my head.
the chess example i wouldn’t even consider thinking visually to see the moves ahead but create a list of possible actions. I’ve always struggled with chess as i don’t have the ability to store the depth of actions available.
Thank you, this is a great analogy and tracks exactly with how I would describe my experience.
Reading this post has made me realise that I haven’t deliberately used visual imagination in a long time, and I’m finding it harder to do that sort of thing now.
I used to be practically limitless in my ability to recall imagery or change it at whim. Since then I’ve gotten years deep into a cycle of overwork, distraction based entertainments, parenting, and drinking. Also, a mild case of COVID that left me feeling slightly foggy a few years ago. No idea if that’s related.
Did not plan to start my Friday at 5 am with an existential crisis, but cowabunga it is. Time to reclaim the inner empire or go mad in the attempt.
I had the same thing actually, but I got back into books and recovered a lot of it. I did have to initially make myself stop and concentrate on the visuals, sometimes reading descriptive passages multiple times to get the details down, but it comes a lot easier now. Really good feeling too get lost in a book.
I’m all about that. I keep bouncing off Consider Phlebas. Think I’ll take another crack at it on my reader
As an aphantasic, I remember what I know about the Mona Lisa. I know that her lips are famous, I think her face is placed more to the right, and her hair and clothes are dark. I am not sure if you can see her hands, I would have said you cannot (I checked and I am wrong).
Apparently, I was never aware enough of her hands to know that they were in the painting. And I could not tell you how her hair lies or what her smile looks like.
It is not word-based, but just knowing. I just know the clothes are dark. There is no experience that can be edited.
When I collect the characteristics to write them down, I think in words.
I mean, it’s definitely visual, but it’s not like I could recall or recreate it photographically.
I remember certain “broad strokes”, but my brain just fills in the details with approximations (that are probably wrong). Like, I could tell you which way the Mona Lisa is facing, the color of the background, what her hair and face sort of look like, but without googling, I have no idea what clothes she is wearing.
It’s like primitive AI since it’s the same but the details aren’t there and if the details are there, I’m not getting the full picture. It can instantly swap between the two be they never seem to overlap