Why does this only apply to women though?
You and your silly questions
Have you ever heard of a man raped by a woman? I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but people don’t talk about it.
but people don’t talk about it.
Now why on earth would that be?
Google patriarchy and toxic masculinity for more information
In the UK it’s legally impossible for a man to be raped by a women. to rape requires a penis. at least it was last i checked.
And SA in general against men is woefully underreported.
not to say the same isn’t true for women too… before i’m downvoted to obilvion
That’s wild! I set why you need a penis to own property or to vote or lead a company, but to rape??
And I don’t care if people mistake my joke about the patriarchy for a patriarchal joke. I don’t care about downvotes
Wait, that’s actually a real poster? What. The. Fuck.
Yea, both were drunk but fuck Jake and his rights because he has the penis.
I can understand and appreciate the intentions, but there are few things worse than good intentions without intelligence, flexibility and nuance, as the statements below seem accurate and feel utterly screwed up:
He got drunk and had sex with a woman - HE goes to jail.
She got drunk and had sex with a man - HE goes to jail.It’s almost like what Public Enemy said in “Fear Of A Black Planet”:
Black man, black woman - black baby
White man, black woman - black baby
Black man, white woman - black babyI feel like there’s a saying, something about hell and intentions.
ah, yes.
a simpler time when one is EASILY identified either by penis OR vagina ONLY.
unlike today.
^/j
Rape charges don’t materialize from thin air. If she reported it then yes, fuck Jake not because of his penis, but because he did not obtain consent.
For some reason this thread has become chock full of people who seem to think men can do no wrong and “equality” means charging both people for rape even though only one of them felt they were assaulted. It’s understandable considering the demographics of the internet and social media sites like lemmy in general (often young men, teenagers, etc). But this is what the poster is talking about — you continue to make assumptions about what this woman has decided to do and consent to, when you have no right to those assumptions because she is intoxicated. It’s incredibly simple, but this thread is blinded by “woman bad” rhetoric around rape charges.
If you don’t rape, you won’t be in this situation. No ifs ands or buts about it. You can argue with me all you want, you can call me crazy all you want, it doesn’t change the fact I am right. Whining and crying about the unfairness of the courts when it comes to assault charges is a cringey position to take. Do better.
So charge the woman with rape charges as well. It’s either both were raped or neither were. He was drunk and she took advantage of him.
Did he wake up and think, “oh damn, I didn’t want to have sex last night”? If so, then yes, charge her. If not, then once again, he is in the wrong.
Did you ever to stop to think that you are sexist?
lol you’re sooo close to the point
No, not me, but you’re on the right track!
Are you really trying to say women can’t be trusted with their actions when drinking? You want men to make all their decisions for them? You can’t be a real person.
That’s not at all what I’m saying. Are you saying that intoxicated consent is valid consent?
Moving goalposts now? I’m tired of arguing with trolls like you. Enjoy the block.
Look. It’s pretty clear that you’ve had some trauma but that’s nobody’s fault here. We have a right to free discourse without having to suffer your issues. Wish you well.
What is the point of this comment? I have never been raped, if that is what you’re implying. I’m capable of empathizing with victims of rape
You’re fucking insane.
Nah, I empathize with victims of rape. I urge them to report it when it happens. If you think that’s insane, well, says more about you than it does me
This isn’t empathy it’s a weird bit you’re trying to pull that’s intentionally misunderstanding or misrepresenting made up scenarios in which drunk people had sex.
It’s heavily implied she consented while intoxicated, which is impossible according to the poster, and is therefore considered rape, even though both were under the influence
And? If either one of them felt as though they were taken advantage of, they should report the rape, no?
Yes this actually was a thing for many years. They actually made women into children and men the only responsible party.
To be fair there aren’t many restrictions on what can be on a poster
On my new poster “RagingRobot. Pedophile or Saint you choose. Detach below.”
I mean, it is more than a bit sexist but… that is probably the demographic who need to understand this in a college environment.
Consent is incredibly important and a LOT of media for the past few decades shat on it. No, I don’t (just) mean how basically every movie in the 80s was about raping people. I mean even “Okay, what if we got you/her drunk?” and so forth. I want to say even Friends and Seinfeld played the idea of one of the guys getting their girlfriend drunk for laughs (well, I think Jerry used turkey?).
Reminding people “that is a crime and you can go to jail” is important… even if people rapidly learn that rich white guys never go to jail.
I know two males who were raped by women when unconscious in college, and neither of them were okay with it.
People always picture a huge unattractive woman when this gets brought up.
But one of my college roommates got raped by a girl who was at least “an 8”.
They had hooked when he was blackout and she was just tipsy. He wanted nothing to do with her tho, and told her that repeatedly. She was just hot, young, and had never been turned down before.
So like a week later we have a party he’s not at. She showed up early, had two beers, then went to “wait” in his bed. Even though everyone was telling her not to do that.
When he shows up, still wants nothing to do with her, so just gets blacked out at the party instead of kicking her out of his bed asap. I guess trying to wait her out and hoping she’d eventually give up.
By the time he finally goes to bed, he’s blacked out and she’s been in there line 6-8 hours and completely sober.
Next morning she teased him about how they had sex again but he kept falling asleep during it.
If he was a chick, no one would argue that the second time was rape. Hell, we’d have probably fought a guy if he kept insisting he was going to “wait” in a drunk girls bed who was clear she didn’t want anything to do with him.
Yes, it happens, and it can be very emotionally damaging for men too. One of the guys I was talking about was a virgin, and wanted to wait until he was married to have sex. He passed out in a bedroom at a party, and one of the women there stripped him naked, got him hard, and had sex with him. He was only vaguely conscious when this was happening. He had a very difficult time accepting that his years worth of discipline and sacrifice were stolen from him.
Yeah I don’t get the hate. Drunk people can’t consent. It is pretty simple.
Drunk people can’t consent, not just drunk women. That’s the point of contention.
Edit: it’s worth mentioning that there are definitely limits to this statement. If two people at the nightclub have had several drinks and decide to hook up, that’s probably okay. They’re two consenting adults, even though they’re legally drunk. The issue is when one of the people is significantly impaired, to the point where they can’t really think clearly and consent or object. Just having a few beers and fucking isn’t a crime, and anyone who thinks it is is a prude.
It is nuanced for sure. A married couple can get drunk and have sex and it can be consensual, but it also could not be. And I purposefully didn’t mention gender at all.
It is a big problem and each instance has its own facts.
You’re right, drunk people can’t consent.
That is not what the poster says.
The poster states, in no unclear terms, that drunk WOMEN cannot consent. This is clearly evident by the scenario being laid out as the same for both parties, but one, the male, was accused of rape.
Then why wouldn’t she be charged with rape?
Yes, if she was the instigator.
That’s not what the poster sez.
Because rape means penetration of someone without consent. Assuming Josie probably doesn’t have a penis, it’d be incredibly hard to charge her with rape.
Not making someone penetrate you without their consent?
Listening not trying to get all Jordan Peterson “WHATS HAPPENING TO MEN” here, but if it doesn’t cut both ways what are we really doing?
I think for women, it’ll count as sexual assault. I think legally it can be as bad as rape, considering jail time and such. Both are felonies.
I mean, the “#NotAllMen” incels tend to come out of the woodwork any time they see something like this.
What, you’re a man who doesn’t want to be raped? Fucking incel
Don’t agree with somebody? Automatic incel I guess. (Or ist, phobe, bigot etc)
Typical thought process on this platform.
This is such bullshit. What happens if she is the one raping? She’s excused and guy is still guilty? Moronic.
What happens if she is the one raping?
Your friends make fun of you and tell you to shut up. Ask me how I know.
Or, you bottle it up inside and let it slowly destroy you.
I assume we both know for the same reasons. I’m sorry my dude.
No wonder suicide rates among men are so much higher.
Successful suicide rates are higher, as men tend to use more lethal means (firearms most commonly). Unsuccessful suicide rates among women are higher, as they tend to prefer pills or cutting.
Its the Gender Paradox of Suicide
CDC data demonstrates that men account for over 76% of suicide deaths in the United States each year. The CDC also found that there are 3.3 male suicide deaths for every female suicide death. In contrast, in research studies, women are two to three times more likely to discuss thoughts of suicide than men, and there are approximately three female suicide attempts per every one male suicide attempt.
From what I remember I think globally that’s it is/was closer to (just under) 2:1 on the male v female successful suicides. I also believe that women think about it more and attempt it more often but with less success overall. One giant caveat is that there are many places where “she killed herself” is accepted and never investigated so it’s possible a (large) number of murders are improperly counted as female suicide. (Looking especially at you, “cultures” with “honour” killings)
One giant caveat is that there are many places where “she killed herself” is accepted and never investigated so it’s possible a (large) number of murders are improperly counted as female suicide. (Looking especially at you, “cultures” with “honour” killings)
Jordan, Morocco, Houston PD jail
This is probably beside the point, but is the larger number of attempts by women a result of those attempts usually being unsuccessful? Like is the same woman being counted for 3 different unsuccessful attempts, while a man generally being successful on the first attempt means he’s only counted once?
Women have a higher rate of suicidal tendency - depression, malaise, extreme anxiety. This is even outside explicit suicide attempts.
It’s a warning not legal advice
If that were the case, different wording would go much further in relaying a message. Something like “Guys, legal system doesn’t like you. On average sentences to men are longer to that of a woman. Women don’t really need an evidence of rape for you to be sentenced for it and spend decades in jail for crime you didn’t do. Child custody is far more frequently awarded to women even if they are the worse choice. Even if you are not the father you might get forced to pay
alimonychild support until proven otherwise, after which no money will be returned. Masturbate, it’s easier and safer.” I’d say that’s far better warning.
Drunk people can consent. Being drunk doesn’t make you do things you don’t want to do. It’s not a magic potion for fuck sake
Drunk people can consent.
They can consent, but they can also not consent. And that’s part of the problem.
Being drunk doesn’t make you do things you don’t want to do.
If you and a sexy person enter a room together, drunk, and that person puts a $1000 charge on your credit card, do we assume that the charge was consensual simply because you were too inebriated to coherently object?
Assuming the answer is “No”, why would the standard be different for sex?
The poster is funny, but apart of the outrage that is causes by some, I think that it could trigger a good discussion.
For instance about how toxic masculinity also hurts men. Under that men are considered weak if they cry and should consider themselves be ‘lucky’ when they are raped.
And how feminism can help against this as well.
If Josie killed someone while being drunk, would that mean she should get a lower sentence because she cannot be held responsible for her actions while intoxicated?
Only if the other person was also drunk.
Males can consent while drunk, females can’t… bullshit it isn’t equal.
Hear me out here: this is a case for feminism. Real feminism, with equality as its goal, not the mockery that gets created and elevated by the stupid fucking culture wars. It’s not that men can consent while drunk. It’s that men can’t ever not consent, and it comes from the deep-seated misogynist idea that men are dumb animals that would fuck a hole in the wall and aren’t responsible for their actions. In a lot of cases that “boys will be boys” line of reasoning is used to limit men’s exposure to repercussions for sexual misconduct, but the relatively new phenomenon of filing rape charges when the woman is intoxicated has taken that abhorrent stereotype and turned it into the idea that women can’t consent while drunk but men can because, again, men can’t ever not consent.
I believe the term “feminism” have a discrimination connotation, maybe we should invent something like equalism… sounds more accurate at least for me.
Feminism is about equality. As long as we still have frequent female firsts, we’re gonna need feminism. For example, we’ve been in space for 50 years, and just last year we had our first entirely female spacewalk. We are only now planning on sending a woman to the moon. Last year, the number of female CEOs finally outnumbered males… Named John.
We need equality, and in many cases, that means we need to improve the ways we as a society treat women.
You’re absolutely right, I’m not disagreeing with anything you said. It’s just important to note that there are areas where gender stereotyping hurts men too, and those areas are being seized upon by anti-equality movements and used to frame the movement as feminists vs men when we as feminists could be framing them as feminists, including men, vs harmful stereotypes.
That is actually a major concern for feminism atm. The old guard stands by the term but it’s toxic to the people it needs to reach.
You ask an angry young man if he’s a feminist, he’ll say no.
You ask him if he agrees with most feminist points, he’ll usually say yes.
Males are afraid of telling they are not agree with feminism cos they are afraid of what women will say cos they have been indoctrinated to be simps. They just want women validation cos there is a black hole of self-esteem on nowdays males. Let’s see what happens when all the kids of single feminist moms grow up but I believe this will go even crazier.
I’m a feminist and I’m not afraid of anything.
Oh yeah? Well what about ghosts, tough guy?
I’m a ghostinist and I’m not afraid of anything
A man can’t consent when he’s drunk either.
This is why I always say that women have a huge advantage over men in any conflict like this.
If you don’t believe me…Well, when female teachers rape their male students, nothing happens, same crime committed by a male teacher, instantly sends that male teacher to jail.
Bullshit.
For one thing, they’re arrested all the time and a Google would have shown you that.
For another, this poster was from 2008 and discontinued quickly.
https://www.dailydot.com/irl/anti-rape-poster-reddit-conversations/
And then someone operating a 1 day old account dug it up and posted it here to trigger outrage. One has to wonder about the motivations of the individual who resurrected this flamebait…
A shocking number of upvotes too.
I mean, it is funny as shit that someone seriously thought this was okay to print on a poster much less present to the public.
Fifteen years ago. Christ, can’t we at least limit ourselves to flamebait from the past decade?
to be fair, that’s enough time to introduce a whole new generation to the ragebait.
True, there’s a lot of 17 year old edgelords right now that were playing with their little toy cars and trucks in their parent’s basement when this bait first landed on Reddit…
As a 53 yo male, this poster makes me angry.
It was one of twenty posted in a small college in 2008 and discontinued shortly after.
https://www.dailydot.com/irl/anti-rape-poster-reddit-conversations/
You’re angry because you’re easy to manipulate, at least on this topic.
They know their audience.
No I’m not easy to manipulate. I’m angry because men usually get labeled the aggressor and that is not always the case. I was mentally abused by a previous wife for many years. Men of my gen were taught very early on that WE are the strong ones and that women are frail and not capable of this behavior. If we’re abused it’s because we are weak.
In this poster the women COULD the aggressor but it was perfectly acceptable to just ASSUME it was the man. Women are just as capable of being evil.
You’re angry because you’re easy to manipulate, at least on this topic.
There are so many people that need to hear and understand this, but a person who’s easily manipulated is a person who’s not easily convinced that they’re being manipulated.
On the other hand, it’s far too easy to dismiss someone’s concerns over them being easily manipulated rather than finding out that maybe they’re coming from somewhere more well thought out, that just happens to come to the same conclusion…
So what if it’s two men? Or two women?
Typically, the one doing the penetrating is charged. Not always, there are cases of heterosexual rape where the woman is the aggressor. These posters are from a not-too-distant past where only men raped only women. If it was 2 guys, it was just weird gay stuff. Girl was the aggressor…guy should feel lucky. 2 girls; “nice.”
Girl was the aggressor…guy should feel lucky.
And if he didn’t, he must be gay. Yeah, those were harsh words for a 15 year old in 1990…
I’m not a law talking guy, this isn’t the law, and it isn’t ethical best practice but it might help people understand the reasonableness of the poster.
I believe it’s true that drunk people can’t consent. I think that what juries are likely to actually care about is the question:
Did the accused have the reasonable belief that the plaintiff would consent to sex while sober?
If you’re in a police interview or a trial and are asked:
What made you think the plaintiff consented to your actions?
And all you can say without perjuring yourself is:
I vaguely recall that they seemed kinda into it, and they didn’t say no, oh! and they didn’t fight back.
You’re going to have a bad time. ESPECIALLY if you’ve been drinking, because it will be easier to question the reasonableness of your belief in their consent.
This poster is clearly meant for a place similar to a university dormitory.
This poster is bad because: it makes the law seem lopsided, and perpetuates sexist ideas about gender and sex.
The poster is good because: unfortunately, too many men think that if a girl is drunk at a place where he thinks the girls are looking for drunk hookups, that she consents to whatever she doesn’t fight (and maybe more). Too many men misunderstand consent and have dangerous ideas about what women really want. It’s much better they be scared into over thinking whether they’re risking arrest than that they rape somebody.
Obviously more nuance is good, but if you’re trying to stop drunk 18 year olds from raping/being raped, taping up a poster like this in the stairwell is more effective than taping up an essay.
It’s a good poster, and statistically men are probably in the wrong more often, but it’s core fundamental flaw is that NEITHER party could consent and technically Josie committed rape by the same logic that Jake did.
Yes, but did Josie unreasonably believe that Jake would consent to sex with her while sober?
Police don’t charge Josie because they don’t think a conviction is likely, because they don’t think they’ll be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt the question I suggested juries are likely to be (actually) considering.
Yeah but isn’t the whole crux of the thing that people aren’t responsible enough to give consent while drunk?
But if you’re not responsible for your actions while drunk, then why is the man responsible for his actions while drunk? Is a drunk man considered responsible enough to determine the sobriety of the people he’s with?
I mean sure don’t have sex with a lady if she’s way too drunk, but that can be difficult to determine. I’ve been in situations where I was out with a woman who was so drunk she could barely walk and yeah, obviously that was a no go (though the next morning it all worked out). But what is the limit on how many drinks a lady can have before she’s no longer able to consent? Is this a scenario where there needs to be a breathalyzer involved?
And yeah, I’ve woken up with women I wouldn’t have been with had I been sober. Was I raped? Nah, I was just being a drunken idiot.
In the event of a court trial? That likely would come into play. The argument that the defendant was also too inebriated to make an informed decision. I don’t know what the legal equivalent of “mulligan?” is but… yeah
But… how do you prove that you were drunk enough? Were their witnesses? Why the fuck would there be witnesses in your bedroom while you are hooking up? It very much becomes “he said, she said” with the path being character assassination. And if that comes across as “massively fucked up and unfair” then… I strongly suggest researching how the average rape trial goes.
As for “how drunk is drunk enough?” That is very much a question. And is why it is good to have “the talk” with a potential partner. If they are at all slurring their voice or seem “drunk” then you take a raincheck. And if this is some rando who drank half a bottle of whiskey but still seems good to drive? Maybe be a bit more selective on who you stick it in?
And yeah, I’ve woken up with women I wouldn’t have been with had I been sober. Was I raped? Nah, I was just being a drunken idiot.
Honestly? You know you. But understand that we have decades (probably closer to a century or two?) of indoctrination to make people blame themselves for “being taken advantage of”. How many sitcoms have “the walk of shame” where one of the main characters drank too much, “slept with” someone they didn’t want to, and is now shamed as a slut or a fool because they woke up the morning after with them in their bed? And how often is the abhorrent admirer portrayed Urkel-style with “I’m gonna wear you down”? And that applies to men, women, and everyone in between.
Because yes, it is very much a question. And… because of the legal system and society, it is almost never in a victim’s interests to actually press charges. But people need to learn: “I drank too much at a party and someone I didn’t want to have sex with convinced me to have sex” is not “I was stupid”. It is “I was coerced into sex”. And whether an individual considers that rape is very much a personal thing. Legally? it is. But I am not going to blame anyone for wanting to avoid that word for the purposes of their own sanity.
It’s just a messy situation no two ways around it. Lots of judgment calls when people are too intoxicated to have good judgement.
Generally as a society we do consider people somewhat responsible for their actions when they’re drunk. Like you can’t say “I was too drunk to know that I shouldn’t drive home.” If I’m too drunk to be able to say no to someone, that’s my responsibility. Other people are drinking too, and it’s not their responsibility to make absolutely certain that when I’m saying “yes” to someone I might not normally go with.
Sure there can be ugly situations where someone is coercing someone, but there can also be innocent situations where someone is just flirting and things go a little further than normal because alcohol is involved. And there’s everything in between.
And the shame of being considered a slut comes into it. I don’t really feel all that ashamed of waking up with someone I wouldn’t have normally been with if I was sober. We had sex, nothing to be ashamed of there. I had sex with someone I wouldn’t have normally been with. If there’s no shame in it, why would I be angry with that person?
My mother was a sexual assault response coordinator (SARC) for the military in the early aughts. This led to some really weird situations for us as a family, like having to pretend we didn’t know why this strange woman who wasn’t here when we went to bed last night is now having breakfast with us. The worst one was probably when it was a friend of mine having breakfast with us. Anyway, my mother really impressed on me that it did not matter if the woman initiated, if I was drunk as well, that I should not, under any circumstances, engage in drunken hookups. I disagree that when two drunk (hetero) people have sex, the man is automatically a rapist. But at the end of the day, my opinion doesn’t matter. The law does. Keep this in mind, fellas, get her number instead. The risk ain’t worth it.
it did not matter if the woman initiated…
At risk of sounding stereotypically queer, the whole gender norms and roles thing between straight people just sounds so insanely outdated each year that passes. Yes, 1 in 4 women are SA at the college I attended. But there was also the statistic that 1 in 10 men are also SA. That’s a hell of a lot of people in a class of 30, for both statistics. And that was info distributed in 2023.
I’ve heard of friends of friends (men) getting held down and raped by other people in a hotel hallway and being too afraid to get tested, call the police, or even come forward because they are so fearful of being accused of being gay and then being ostracized by society. Being victims of SA is an equal opportunity event. It feels so odd that in the straight world, things still seem so…one dimensional. It can (and does) happen to anyone. It feels like everyone is just holding their breath while crazy, horrible stuff happens.
I’m largely straight (hetero flexible tends to be what I’d say if you asked) and I agree that the straights are not ok 😂
