There are laws in place for service workers related to minimum wage. The employers have to make up the difference if tips don’t meet the rate for hours worked. It seems to me that’s not sufficient for the times.
Hypothetically, if everyone were to stop tipping in the U.S. would things be better or worse for workers? Would employers start paying workers more?
Hot take but I think tipping culture is one of the main reasons why Americans are suffering from such large class issues.
In Japan tipping is offensive because it puts the customer above the server when it’s a fair exchange between the two parties. It makes sense imo. For people to respect each profession it has to be treated like an equal value exchange. The server that brings my food is not my temporary slave but we have a social contract that they’ll be hosting me as the representative of the restaurant and “forced donations” completely ruins this exchange. It’s incredibly toxic.
So, all of the general points you make about tipping culture are valid, but it’s batshit crazy to say that it’s “one of the main reasons why Americans are suffering from such large class issues.” One of the main reasons? Are you fucking kidding?
Don’t be so hard on them. Consider that media is owned by private interests, and that’s been their whole life. Unions are evil, worker rights are a privilege, and you wouldn’t want to regulate or tax businesses if it means they would make less profit. They create the jobs, don’t forget that. Nor should you tax private fortunes, that’s already been taxed, even if it is actively used as collateral for loans and a mechanism to avoid income tax. On that topic… higher taxes on very high income is also unwise, because, you can avoid paying income tax by leveraging aforementioned loans, and why would you want that to be inconvenient? Private ownership on necessities of life is also not a problem, especially when you have a legal obligation to maximize profit for stock owners, which I’m sure won’t motivate higher health care prices, or motivate denial of coverage or reduced level of treatment. Same goes with housing being an investment. People got to live somewhere right? That’s a business opportunity right there! Better not regulate that or tax that too much either… It might reduce the value of housing… and you wouldn’t just want anyone to get in on that.
Tipping culture, on the other, if only you could do something about that…
Hot take but I think tipping culture is one of the main reasons why Americans are suffering from such large class issues.
It’s not a cause, it’s a symptom
In Japan tipping is offensive because it puts the customer above the server
Saying they don’t put the customer above the server in Japan sounds very wrong to me. Servers use highly polite language to customers, while customers generally act in a way that feels very dismissive to me as an American - e.g. yelling to no one in particular when you want service, saying nothing when a server brings food or drinks. This is my experience at least.
Complete opposite experience here. Customer experience in Japan is top notch except there’s often too much ritual. For example buying electronics often involves like an hour long process as you pick up these cards that represent your items, take them to the cashier, pay, get a long 1 on 1 lesson and onboarding but at the same time it’s what makes the process wholesome and respectful. Bars and restaurants in particular are super wholesome.
Yes, the workers stick to the ritual but customers hardly care. People don’t even greet the konbini workers or say thank you or anything that signals they deal with another human
Can a customer give a tip to a waiter/waitress in case they deliver outstanding service? Because it might be seen wrongly in that case. I’m genuinely curious.
I’m not Japanese but from my time there it seems like no, tips aren’t acceptable unless there’s some explicit mechanic like tip jar or some ritual. I did hear that long term customers tend to bring gifts on special occasions but I think that’s almost never money.
It is definitely messed up, but it’s also the only reasonable way for people in a lot of more conservative states to make any money at all as service staff, because those states tend to have comically low base pay for servers because “they work for tips”.
It’s an intentionally self-perpetuating cycle that makes things more expensive for customers, and fails to pay the business’s workers what they deserve. It’s basically enhanced wage theft combined with a pricing structure that also intrinsically hides the fact that the business owner is also intentionally hiding something like 15-25% of their cost of business, and you get to make up the difference.
Everyone couldn’t agree to put a simple piece of fabric over their mouths in public to reduce the spread of a deadly virus. You’ll never convince everyone of anything. You’ll absolutely hurt workers. Period.
This is why it really bothers me when people comment that they refuse to tip anyone for anything. I get that you have a problem with the system. So do I. So do a lot of people. But all you’re doing is fucking over that particular server in the moment. You aren’t “sticking it to the man” or hurting their employer. You’re hurting the poor sod just trying to make their way.
Please continue to tip people who are paid a tipped wage, even if you don’t agree with the system. You’re not harming the right people when you refuse to tip like that.
(Disclaimer: Tipping people who are NOT paid a tipped wage is not necessary…like cashiers at counter service restaurants.)
This is very prevalent on Lemmy.
Marginally ok thing happens that is progress in one particular part of a wider issue
No grass touchin lem:
“Well that’s not addressing full systemic change within one calendar month therefore is a waste and an assault on all of us!”
Like, we get it dude. There’s big problems out there. But that attitude just sucks the good out of every individual act, especially when that act has no contact, or ability to change the wider issue.
They didn’t say it’s pointless because it isn’t a big enough change.
They said it’s harmful because it’s screwing over the server and the employer (let alone the industry) probably won’t care.
In the past, I would have agreed but, in a lot of places the sub-minimum “tipped” wage has gone away and now tips are just bonus. I’m sure the worker likes the money, but it’s not like they aren’t getting a full wage. Tips in fact may be acting as an inhibitor to workers fully organizing and negotiating their wage with their employer.
Do you know where these places might be? I have not heard of this being a thing.
I’m convinced that people who refuse to tip “on principle” are just cheapskates.
Looks like the cheapskates found your post.
I think it would still help even if only some people stopped tipping, you don’t need full coordination to make it a less viable business practice.
Why be a patron to bad business practice?
While Restaurant margins are low, raising them to minimum wage wouldn’t bankrupt them, but it might cause some employees to quit who were making a lot more than that. I don’t know if that’s your goal or not.
A better idea would be to coordinate a campaign to stop going to restaurants that do tipping. Don’t make the worker out in the work that way.
🎯🎯🎯
I went to subway for lunch, and the machine offered 18%, 20%, and 25%
I gave zero because he’s doing his job; if I would have sat down and he served my my sandwich on a plate and refilled my drink, I’d have tipped
Yeah. I’m reluctant to tip anywhere that doesn’t offer table service.
My only exceptions are Housekeeping and Valet, but for food table service(I include delivery under this lable) is required for a tip. Takeout is a no go.
My only exceptions are Housekeeping and Valet
Out of interest, why? (I’m not American)
Tipping in the US pays for service (base rates typically only cover base stuff room, food, parking, etc). Housekeeping and Valet are both traditionally included alongside wait staff. Valets are a big one as it typically falls under a luxury service, just check your mileage before tipping as you may double down in gas/wear if your car is nice enough. For Housekeeping this is only really for Hotels (not motels and not long term stay hotels) and it covers daily sheet/towel changes, garbage removal, etc.
this is only really for Hotels (not motels and not long term stay hotels)
Forgive my ignorance but what’s different about motels and long stay hotels?
Motels “housekeeping” may or may not exist; bring a blacklight if you don’t want to sleep. Long stay hotels require you request housekeeping during your stay (if under one month), and generally only refresh when you check out. Hotels provide daily turndown service including fresh sheets, towels, and consumables (soap, tissues, toilet paper, mints, etc.)
Topping your housekeeper in the first day or so of a hotel stay will drastically improve the cleanliness of your room going forward.
How do you know the same person will clean your room every day?
What’s a girl stay?
Editted. Hotel.
And they talk to each other. They know which rooms are bad and which are good
This is different. Counter service places do NOT make a tipped wage and so it is actually not necessarily to tip. I tip people who make a tipped wage like servers.
How do you know which employees make a tipped wage? Does it vary by area? (Not American, I don’t know)
No, it’s basically consistent across the US. Servers (waiters and waitresses) and I believe food delivery drivers are paid a tipped wage.
Essentially everyone else is not paid a tipped wage and you should not feel compelled to tip them. Absolutely no one at any counter service restaurants or fast food trucks are paid a tipped wage, even though the computer screen often asks you if you want to tip. There is no need to. I usually tip 0% at these places, but tbh I’m more inclined to tip at a food truck even though it isn’t necessary.
Counter service gets no tip.
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What about coffee baristas?
The employers have to make up the difference if tips don’t meet the rate for hours worked.
Is that true in all states? I thought I read recently that there were still holdouts.
Anyway, in the immediate term it would be terrible for most tipped staff who depend on that money for things like rent, food, gas, etc. For employers to pay more, they would likely need to raise prices; smaller restaurants in particular can operate on some pretty tight margins and I doubt the big guys will take less profit. Where that ultimately would go, I’m not sure.
I live in Japan now and we don’t do tips here. Things are more expensive in menu price, but there’s no magical 20% to pay after. We also have single-payer health insurance system. Businesses are required to do some health insurance stuff for full-time employees, but I don’t know what what point/size. Even if the employee has to pay 100%, health insurance and pension are income-based. Rents are also generally less crazy. As with everywhere, food prices and inflation are issues here, but people are surviving. The bar down the street pays 1500/hour to start (minimum in Tokyo is a bit over 1000/hr) and that’s increased for the late night portion leading to a higher amount of pay.
Honestly from what I’ve seen on YouTube videos it looks like Japanese food/restaurants costs less to the customer
Depends on the type of place and where it is, but it can be cheaper. Beers here are quite expensive comparatively. I guess the caution I would give is that I’ve been back to the US once in the last 6 years (last summer), so things may have changed a lot there that I’m unaware of.
Technically it’s required everywhere due to the national minumum wage law (up to 7.25/hr not the state’s min wage if it’s higher, that depends on state laws). If they don’t it’s wage theft, but so few employees know this that it happens all the time and basically never gets reported.
Tipping is of course a major issue not just in the US, but in many other countries as well. There are a lot of good books written over the years on the subject. One was written by a career waitress that is worth reading and how it leads to the acceptance of sexual abuse of the waitresses.
It’s fun to think about changing it and everyone just stopping it. If this is an important issue to you try and change it. If no one fights for what is right and progress things will only get worse.
Next time, instead of tipping just ask the shop owner to raise the wages because the waiters do such a good job
How often do the owners of the shop show up where you live?
Often
Ah, but forgot to mention I live in a no-tip-country. Is there maybe an association between tip/no-tip culture and the percentage of shops actually run by their owners? Not for me to find out but I hope someone will share their insights with me on the 24.06.2027 about this
Or do both?
No?
It has been a long time but when I waited on tables for $2.xx / hour no one ever told me about any minimum I had to make or the employer would pay more. If that exists it is new and I wonder how common it is. If my tips were shit, I took that hit and got no help from the employer.
I was fortunate to be from a state where minimum wage for tipped persons was the same as everyone. I also kept that rate when I transferred to a state where tipped employees were paid $2.xx / hour. My mistake was moving to a different employer and the lower hourly rate.
A lower hourly rate for tipped employees is pure profiteering bullshit on the part of employers. It should be outlawed at the federal level. There is no good reason for an employer to get in the middle of an employee and customer. Customers tip employees, NOT employers.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/faq
You are a victim of wage theft.
I was in the restaurant industry for several years and I’ve never met anyone who was paid that difference. Sleazy restaurants just won’t pay it because most servers don’t even know about it. Even in more reputable establishments, when managers see tips are low, they don’t just stand around until they have to pay their servers more, they start slashing hours. A tipping strike would be distributive, but it would probably lead to less servers and worse service rather than end tipping.
The real issue is that propaganda has turned customers against servers, when the reality is that the restaurant is their enemy. The restaurant is paying a starvation wage and expecting you to directly subsidize their staffing costs. The National Restaurant Association spends millions every year fighting local legislation that would pay servers a living wage, while simultaneously forcing restaurant employees to pay for certifications they need to do their jobs. They’re pocketing money from both customers and servers while watching them fight over tipping culture.
There are a lot of servers who prefer tips, especially younger people who are more likely to live with their parents and want quick cash. But most older restaurant employees would prefer stability to quick, inconsistent cash. At the end of my time in the service industry, I had moved over to event bartending, where I was rarely tipped but made $30 an hour. If their was a large migration from a tipped wage to a living wage, most servers would see the benefit and get on board.
The problem is, in the absence of any legislation, the only efforts to change tipping culture come from individual restaurants, and they always fail. Many restaurants try a living wage and go back to tipped wage because they just don’t do as well. No matter how many times you explain that the server’s wage is reflected in the price of the meal, people see a $22 item that usually costs $20 and think it’s too expensive, even if they’re losing money tipping $4 on $20.
So, a tipping strike would certainly be distributive, but it’s more likely to hurt servers and customers than restaurants. Trying to get ballot initiatives to end the tipped minimum wage locally would be more effective, but be ready to fight the National Restaurant Association when they come to town (and believe me, they will).
The real irritation is that British Columbia has a tipping culture where pretty much everywhere is asking for 10-25% tip.
Restaurant staff aren’t exempted from minimum wage here like in the US, so its pure greed on the owners part.
BC budtender. My managers are out-of-touch crazies that enabled tipping (5%/10%/25%) because, ‘they feel bad we don’t make much money’, paraphrased.
That’s great, love hearing that from my lake-house owning mega-rich hippie manager, but I’ve already posted a rant here about how my month’s wage of part-time work is easily paid in a day of work with their ludicrous profit margins. 50% on cannabis where I saw 30% in the liquor industry. They can pay me a livable wage, they choose not to.
I have compounding evidence that they’re shitty people wearing masks of integrity and compassion and I hate it.
Greed sucks :(
Sure would make it simpler.
The minimum wage for servers is around $2 an hour. If we stop tipping, our servers won’t make enough money to survive. Restaurants claim that they can’t afford to pay a living wage and offer prices people are willing to pay. Yay capitalism.
The employer by law has to pay the regular minimum wage if the tips don’t make up the difference.
Does this actually happen though?
It’s the law but due to how working for wage thieving losers works, it doesn’t happen in practice.
I doubt it because the “culture” is that you’re a horrible person if you don’t tip stupid amounts so people are shamed into it.
Can you give a cite for this? I don’t think this happens everywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Labor_Standards_Act_of_1938
Under the Fair Labor Standards Act, an employer has to pay each employee the minimum wage, unless the employee is “engaged in an occupation in which the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips”. If the employee’s wage does not equal minimum wage, including tips, the employer must make up the difference.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/faq
If an employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.
Thanks for those.
I don’t think it is very common knowledge. I wonder how many people earning $2.xx / hr know this.
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Worse.
Without tips, the employer pays $7.50/hr. That’s not enough to live on, especially since food service workers are almost universally working part time.
With tips, the employer pays $2.50/hr, but tips can make up the difference to be somewhat more reasonable.
To abolish tipping, we need:
- To abolish servers’ wage ($2.50) and pay servers minimum wage.
- Double the minimum wage to $15/hr.
Sadly I think that might be the only way to make it stop. But it doesn’t feel right. If a waiter/waitress is getting a zero dollar paycheck, that means they’re making more than some minimum amount. If we stop tipping, they’ll be paid that minimum amount. In our effort to get service jobs fairly paid, should we punish them by paying them less first?
Stuff like more order-at-the-counter or online from your phone instead of a human waiter coming to your table.
This already seems to be happening as companies push to squeeze more and more profits for the shareholders. I was at a local pizza place not long ago that you were forced to scan the QR code and order yourself. They did bring the food out, but that was it. You even had to get your own drink and refills.
Off-topic, but that was also the biggest bill I had from a pizza place in as long as I can remember. It was bumping $100 for 4 of us to eat sub-par pizza and drink water.
It would be terrible for servers. Every server will report different incomes, but when I served tables I was paid way above a fair wage. I could never imagine an employer matching the $40+/hr I made bringing food to tables on the weekend.
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Employers would ultimately see it as not their mess, not their problem. They already pay the minimum wage they legally can, if they wanred to pay their employees a living wage then they would already be doing so. They know that they will lose their current experienced servers, but they also know that there will always be desperate workers who have no choice but to accept the crumbs that are offered.
If tip wage doesn’t meet regular minimum wage then employers are required to pay the difference
