• MacroCyclo@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    26
    arrow-down
    23
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    I think this flies a bit too far in the other direction. China is totalitarian. It is not a democracy. It is also increasingly antagonizing nations abroad. I think it is valid to consider it a threat if you are any other nation, period.

    Edit: Kinda like Russia

    • OurToothbrush@lemmy.mlM
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      14
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      How many seats are in the highest legislative body?

      What rights and responsibilities do autonomous regions within China have?

      What is the most distributed government legislative committee type and what is their role in the government?

      • yeather@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        19
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        1, Xi Xinping and whatever he says, doesn’t matter how many show ponys you fill the room with.

        1. In the end they all answer to the whims of the central government, which can change or remove and rights and responsibilities autonomous regions within China have.

        2. See answer one.

        • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          14
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          1, Xi Xinping and whatever he says, doesn’t matter how many show ponys you fill the room with.

          Do you know what a legislative body is? Anglophones are almost all educated on “executive, legislative, judicial” aren’t they? Xi is the leader of the Executive branch in China, not the Legislative or Judicial.

          • yeather@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            11
            ·
            1 year ago

            You do know what a dictator is right? You can call yourself the head of this and that and have cronies technically control the rest, but it’s not fooling anyone slightly smarter than the average microwave. It’s inherently evident you do Xi Xinpings bidding no matter where you are placed or you will be replaced. Not a hard concept, even someone like you can understand.

            • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              1 year ago

              Such fierce condescension and yet you’re the one pushing a children’s story. All these hundreds and thousands of representatives, all the millions of Party members, are just puppets under the Bad Guy’s control. There was no violence to install him, the existing government put him there (since I assume you don’t endorse Chinese elections) and then he played an Uno Reverse and now they are all an extension of him, with all of Chinese politics then becoming merely being a matter of how much people chaff under the collars and fetters he fixes to them. When politicians fight each other? When journalists fire back and forth in the papers? When policy goes one way and then pivots? It’s all just a Potemkin Village with a few hundred million people as the staff.

              So no, “someone like me” cannot understand how such a thing could exist outside of a children’s cartoon or a similar sort of story told to an audience that is very much suspending its disbelief.

              • yeather@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                1 year ago

                How in went way is that a children’s story. It’s incredibly easy to understand like a children’s story but is very real, so real you can see it happening in real time. Your idea of China is more like a children’s fairytale rather than the reality it currently is.

                I do not support Chinese elections, same way I do not support Russian or North Korean elections. These are also similar to children’s stories.

                On your next point, politicians can argue all they want but in the end they will fall in line. Similar to journalists, who may I remind you are often targeted as political prisoners to be sent to reeducation camps. Also, yes, policy changes, people change their minds or gain retrospection on what doesn’t work and pivot, it happens often. For example, China’s Great Leap Forward, which really lead to mass starvation and steel barely useable. Then Deng Xiaoping and Liu Shaoqi reversed these policies and ended the great Chinese famine. Then Mao changing his mind again and having both of them thrown into reeducation camps, Shaoqi would die.

                • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Your “no u” line about how actually I am telling children’s stories doesn’t work as well as you think it does. The crux of my case is that these states aren’t monoliths and potemkin villages but actually have complex internal politics where people of varying viewpoints are able to openly disagree and protest, as is observably true in these countries! Not everyone in the Russian legislature supports the war, and they generally did okay with this position. There are all sorts of left/right debates in China among various politicians and journalists and so on. To call this kabuki theater or totally inconsequential without any actual evidence is silly.

                  Also your timeline is bad. The Great Famine ended circa '61 and the Cultural Revolution began in '66. The Cultural Revolution certainly had its issues, but it didn’t cause a famine. Deng did end the Cultural Revolution, sort of, but only after Mao’s death and the purging of the Gang of Four (prior to Deng’s re-ascent).

                  As an aside, I don’t think Deng was ever imprisoned in connection to the Cultural Revolution, though he was half-purged and assigned to menial duties in one case and basically paid leave in another. It’s quite interesting how pissed Mao and his clique were at Deng and yet they held their hand, relatively speaking. Wasn’t it supposed to be a death sentence to oppose Mao, as the liberals tell it? Of course, Mao took pride in trying to rehabilitate people (even the last Chinese Emperor and captured Japanese soldiers!), so he would in almost all cases resist having someone killed or left to rot in prison.

                  There’s a wild bias in western media in trying to make a Khrushchev out of Deng, but Deng himself vociferously refuted those comparisons while in office, calling Khrushchev a fool, a traitor, and so on, and saying that being compared to Khrushchev was an insult (which is true).

            • Aria@lemmygrad.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              I understand you think Xi Xinping is very good at kung fu because he’s Chinese, so there’s nothing anyone can do to stop his Hokuto Shinken, but China actually has over a milliard Chinese people, and they’re equally Chinese, so their Kung Fu should be just as strong. Hope this helps =)

        • OurToothbrush@lemmy.mlM
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          12
          ·
          1 year ago

          So what I’m hearing is it doesn’t matter if you’re ignorant about the way China works because the US media told you Xi is an evil dictator who controls everything and you believed them. Got it.

          • yeather@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            9
            ·
            1 year ago

            No, Xi is an evil dictator who controls everything he wants to. It doesn’t matter if you technically control something you will always end up doing the bidding of Xi or you will disappear. From reading your replies, it’s evident you have fallen for Chinese propaganda and now simp for an evil dictator and totalitarian regimes. Got it.

    • fishtacos@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      1 year ago

      So… No, it’s not like Russia at all. But that nuance is too long for me to explain right now. Short answer is that Russia is capitalist, and China is 50/50 capitalist/socialist, depending on definitions, and yeah a lot of nuance.

      But China is run by the people, their authoritarian politics keeps their billionaires and induatry in check. Their local politics is a negotiation with the national politics.

      And… How exactly is China antagonizing nations abroad? Because a lot of countries are choosing to work with China because they AREN’T antagonizing them as much as America and Europe. So… The reality is the opposite.

      • MacroCyclo@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        13
        ·
        1 year ago

        I mean, if you haven’t been there or don’t know anyone from there you could pretend they are a democracy, but they are authoritarian like Russia is authoritarian. Long term they will seek a wider swath to be authoritarian over.

        • fishtacos@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          12
          arrow-down
          11
          ·
          1 year ago

          And the argument from ignorance continues.

          All I have to say is read more and be online less.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              12
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              1 year ago

              Newsflash, you can find people in any country who don’t like their government, and you’ll obviously see these people over represented in the population that left the country. The fallacy of your argument is to conclude that the people you know hold the opinion of the majority of people in China. I made plenty of friends who from China in university, and most of them went back after graduating. Vast majority of people in China support their government and are proud of their country. Even western polling admits this.

              • UFO@programming.dev
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                1 year ago

                Cool story. China is still authoritarian.

                China is a one party system with a “president” for life. Fancy that up all you want: still authoritarian with a dictator.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  8
                  arrow-down
                  7
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  You used so many words to tell us that you don’t know anything about Chinese political system and expose yourself as being confidently wrong. Maybe spend some time educating yourself instead of flaunting your ignorance in public.

                  • UFO@programming.dev
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    If you thought that was “so many words” reality is too complicated for you.

                    “The Government of the People’s Republic of China is a unitary Marxist–Leninist one-party authoritarian political system under the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).”

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_China

                    I look forward to you correcting that wiki page lol

            • yeather@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              6
              arrow-down
              10
              ·
              1 year ago

              Quick tip, arguing with tankies gets you nowhere, let them waddle in their own filth and move on with your life.

        • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          12
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          If Taiwan is its own nation, they should really specify that in their constitution instead of claiming to be the rightful government of all of China and Mongolia.

          • UFO@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            1 year ago

            That still makes it a nation… That claims to be the rightful government. These are not mutually exclusive haha

            • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              6
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              That claim is mutually exclusive with Taiwan being “its own nation” distinct from China. It is definitionally its own government, but it claims to be a superset of the nation of China (because of also claiming Mongolia and some smaller territories). Nations are a social construct based on historical group identities, so the PRC is the same nation as the ROC was back when the ROC controlled the mainland. The ROC claims to still be that nation (plus Mongolia) which the PRC currently administers.