Hector Martin (@marcan@treehouse.systems)
social.treehouse.systems
Attached: 3 images Today I learned that YouTube is deliberately crippling Firefox on Asahi Linux. It will give you lowered video resolutions. If you just replace "aarch64" with "x86_64" in the UA, suddenly you get 4K and everything. They literally have a test for "is ARM", and if so, they consider your system has garbage performance and cripple the available formats/codecs. I checked the code. Logic: Quality 1080 by default. If your machine has 2 or fewer cores, quality 480. If anything ARM, quality 240. Yes, Google thinks all ARM machines are 5 times worse than Intel machines, even if you have 20 cores or something. Why does this not affect Chromium? **Because chromium on aarch64 pretends to be x86_64** `Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/120.0.0.0 Safari/537.36` 🤦‍♂️​🤦‍♂️​🤦‍♂️​🤦‍♂️​🤦‍♂️​ Welp, guess I'm shipping a user agent override for Firefox on Fedora to pretend to be x86. **EDIT**: The plot thickens. Pretending to be ChromeOS aarch64 *still gets 4K*. Specifically: `Mozilla/5.0 (X11; CrOS aarch64 10452.96.0) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/66.0.3359.181 Safari/537.36` still works. **EDIT 2**: OK, so the plot *really* thickens now. Chrome is not affected even if it claims to be aarch64. Turns out there is another codepath: apparently YouTube thinks aarch64 Firefox is... a HiSense TV?!?!?!?! Specifically, model 65a67gevs...????? This is *server-side* sniffing now and it's *specifically* looking for Firefox aarch64 (or at least "Gecko and not Chrome/CrOS/something else known to pretend to be Gecko"). And it's the "TV" platform that is triggering the resolution crippling.
  • slimarev92@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5722·
    11 months ago

    I like how nobody actually bothered to read the thread and doesn’t understand this is a bug and wasn’t done on purpose.

    • maynarkh@feddit.nlEnglish
      434·
      11 months ago

      Having bugs for platforms outside the walled garden is a feature of the walled garden. That’s the beauty of it, they don’t need to purposefully cripple Firefox and other engines if they just don’t take it into account when creating features.

    • Fades@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4111·
      11 months ago

      Quite a reductive statement based on a very small obscured window into what Google is doing with user agent profiling but go off I guess since you’re so sure

      • Aux@lemmy.worldEnglish
        155·
        11 months ago

        It’s not. First of all, the code doesn’t check for Firefox at all. Second, it blocks 4K for all Android devices. Conclusions people came up with here just show utter ignorance.

        • blind3rdeye@lemm.eeEnglish
          2·
          11 months ago

          Google has teams of highly paid expert engineers who’s entire job is to maintain and develop youTube. What do you think is more likely:

          1. Google’s engineers were unable to tell that performance in Firefox is degraded by their changes.
          2. Google sees it as advantageous to disadvantage their competitors - including Firefox. And although they might not be able to do it deliberately, for legal reasons, they can still do it by introducing platform specific changes and strategically neglecting to make it work properly.
          • Gestrid@lemmy.caEnglish
            2·
            11 months ago

            I mean, Google’s engineers also recently lost six months worth of a lot of people’s Google Drive files, so, honestly, anything’s possible.

          • Aux@lemmy.worldEnglish
            11·
            11 months ago

            Have you actually checked the code? It doesn’t target Firefox at all. Man…

      • slimarev92@lemmy.worldEnglish
        115·
        11 months ago

        Are they determining that Forefox is Hisense TV on purpose? Again, read the linked thread for a change.

    • sugartits@lemmy.worldEnglish
      51·
      11 months ago

      Shhhh. We’re hating on YouTube as we want ad free videos but don’t want to pay for it and we’re hoping that bitching about it on a tiny social media platform will somehow get Google to pivot their entire business model.

      We don’t need no facts here.

      • YouAreLiterallyAnNPC@lemmy.worldEnglish
        26·
        11 months ago

        Did YouTube make all of those videos? If not, then how much should YouTube get from hosting them? This whole argument that people just want free shit isn’t just wrong, it’s also annoying. People have proven time and again that we’re willing to pay for quality and convenience. And not in that order. Once again it’s an issue about access, how they’re fighting tooth and nail to gatekeep that access to continue to control the flow of capital so they can also play the kingmakers in digital media. Messages like yours are so off base that it’s hard to believe you’re not projecting your own shitty world view, but also somehow think that because you’ll gargle some shitty ads every once in a while that you have some moral high ground. AKA; one of those people who believe they’re right and that’s all that matters and you don’t actually have to think any deeper. PS: I hope I’m wrong. Please feel free to correct my own world view if I am.

        • Streetdog@lemmy.worldEnglish
          4·
          11 months ago

          My local supermarket isn’t producing most of the products it has on its shelves, so fuck them too I guess.

          • YouAreLiterallyAnNPC@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            11 months ago

            Good counter-point, except that your local supermarket has to respect three separate market pressures that Google (edit: to be clear, I mean YouTube) clearly has no regard for:

            • Tight regulations.
            • Respecting its consumers.
            • Robust competition that isn’t prone to monopolistic enterprise.

            So no, I don’t feel that we should ‘fuck them, too I guess’ because when I go to the supermarket I feel like I’m the customer, not the product. I feel that I get what I’m paying for and that my time is respected. Nothing about YouTube leaves me feeling like that. There’s no sense that I’m a respected customer and therein no sense that there’s any value in trying to respect a clearly one-sided relationship.

        • sugartits@lemmy.worldEnglish
          63·
          11 months ago

          Did YouTube make all of those videos?

          Nobody is claiming they did

          If not, then how much should YouTube get from hosting them?

          Whatever the free market will pay. Like with any other product.

          This whole argument that people just want free shit isn’t just wrong, it’s also annoying.

          A paid option is available to those who find the ads annoying.

          Those who refuse to pay and try to block the ads are freeloading. Simple as that.

          People have proven time and again that we’re willing to pay for quality and convenience.

          And yet here we are. Yet again on Lemmy. Yet again with the crybabies wanting ad-free and cost-free shit without considering that someone somewhere has to pay for it. Google is not a charity.

          Once again it’s an issue about access, how they’re fighting tooth and nail to gatekeep that access

          What? Competitors exist. YouTube is free for nearly everyone.

          You are free to use the alternatives if you disagree with how YouTube works.

          That’s how the free market works; nobody has a gun to your head.

          Messages like yours are so off base that it’s hard to believe you’re not projecting your own shitty world view, but also somehow think that because you’ll gargle some shitty ads every once in a while that you have some moral high ground.

          I pay for premium. I’m happy to pay for content I enjoy and I’m happy that the creators I enjoy watching get a cut without me having to watch annoying adverts.

          I do not expect handouts. There is nothing “shitty” about paying for things.

          Maybe tone down the extremism and personal attacks against a stranger, huh?

          AKA; one of those people who believe they’re right and that’s all that matters and you don’t actually have to think any deeper.

          🥱

          • YouAreLiterallyAnNPC@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            11 months ago

            And yet here we are. Yet again on Lemmy. Yet again with the crybabies wanting ad-free and cost-free shit without considering that someone somewhere has to pay for it. Google is not a charity.

            I was tempted to state that I was wrong, clearly you have thought about this, but I don’t agree with this perspective at all and won’t be changing my opinion. If we’re in the business of calling things out that “nobody said,” then nobody said Google was a charity.

            That’s how the free market works; nobody has a gun to your head.

            The ‘nobody has a gun to your head’ approach to laissez-faire mercantilism likes to ignore how important free market access is. Lack of access can be just as bad as a gun to the head, if not sometimes worse. This is a one sided argument in favor of corporatism that doesn’t address access. The main thrust of my point.

            I pay for premium. I’m happy to pay for content I enjoy and I’m happy that the creators I enjoy watching get a cut without me having to watch annoying adverts. I do not expect handouts. There is nothing “shitty” about paying for things.

            I don’t think YouTube has ever left me feeling like it had any regard for me as a consumer or even valued my time. It appears, from the many complaints I’ve seen by YouTube content creators, that many of them don’t feel valued or respected either. By the time Premium came along it had long lost me as an interested customer. There’s no feeling that one should honor a one-sided social contract because that requires an actual relationship. If I felt that YouTube actually cared about anything other than being the middle-man that ensures that I get served ads, and demands–but not delivers–respect for it, then maybe I would reconsider. Until then, I will enjoy their competing products. Ad-Blockers and supporting alternative hosting sites that make me feel more valued. They’ve assisted in creating their own black-market for ad-avoidance, and that’s the free market working.

            Maybe tone down the extremism and personal attacks against a stranger, huh?

            🥱

            • sugartits@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              11 months ago

              I was tempted to state that I was wrong, clearly you have thought about this, but I don’t agree with this perspective at all and won’t be changing my opinion.

              I guess we’re done here then.

              The ‘nobody has a gun to your head’ approach to laissez-faire mercantilism likes to ignore how important free market access is.

              Oh, were still going. Okay.

              Erm. YouTube is free. It’s only not available where countries have blocked it.

              Lack of access can be just as bad as a gun to the head, if not sometimes worse.

              What? YouTube is not a necessity to human existence. It’s not food or shelter.

              That’s a stunning level of entitlement on show there.

              I don’t think YouTube has ever left me feeling like it had any regard for me as a consumer or even valued my time. It appears, from the many complaints I’ve seen by YouTube content creators, that many of them don’t feel valued or respected either. By the time Premium came along it had long lost me as an interested customer.

              Fair enough. So you’re going the ad route then?

              There’s no feeling that one should honor a one-sided social contract because that requires an actual relationship. If I felt that YouTube actually cared about anything other than being the middle-man that ensures that I get served ads, and demands–but not delivers–respect for it, then maybe I would reconsider.

              Ah, so you’re freeloading.

              Until then, I will enjoy their competing products. Ad-Blockers and supporting alternative hosting sites that make me feel more valued. They’ve assisted in creating their own black-market for ad-avoidance, and that’s the free market working.

              If you don’t want to pay, or view the ads, you should opt out and use an alternative or go without. That’s the ethical choice.

              • YouAreLiterallyAnNPC@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                11 months ago

                Excellent argument all around. I like that it stayed on point and didn’t devolve into something else entirely. I know you and I don’t necessarily agree, but I respect that you stood your ground and as a result, you as a person. I do feel that you could put more value into the demand-side of things, AKA, the consumer but there’s a bit of nuance there and we probably have different approaches that solve the same ideal. My follow on points would have been to argue that YouTube isn’t deserving of being given a social-contract of ethical conduct etc etc. I would also address that YouTube is central to some livelihoods and the financial well-being of others. I really wanted to highlight the sense of irony that I get that you would call a group of people crybabies and then feel personally attacked when someone took you to task and stood their ground on the counterpoint; however, I concede that if I had known you would have felt personally attacked I would have picked a softer tone and for that I apologize. I think we can both acknowledge that we’d only be arguing nuance at this point and that’s not a worthwhile use of our time. You sir (edit: or ma’am, or something in between, if it pleases), are not an NPC. (also edit; upvotes given for the statements except the original statement I disagreed with)