By Glenn Greenwald / Rumble Following the recent protests against police in France, the French government has taken steps to implement increasingly repressive measures in the forms of mass surveillance and the rhetoric endorsement of online censorship.
Well a proper response from the government? Not something that antagonize the population, maybe something more human than using ILLEGAL weapons against your people ? Proprety destruction and looting is what you get when you push your people to the brink.
That’s a very loaded question. All of them can work under the right circumstances.
I support violence and destruction, but it needs to be directed at your oppressors, not your neighbors.
Americans didn’t fight off the British with picket signs, they fucking shot them. Then enshrined their rights to own firearms and defend their right to liberty into the constitution as a basic human right.
“The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants”
like a mayor of one of the impacted cities said: “we only talk about them when they burn stuff. they are never invited to talk about this, because it previously happened. This time, someone filmed this, and it countered what the cops were saying.”
It’s just easier to burn stuff close to where you live i guess.
What i meant is that someone filmed the murder. The cops were already spinning this like they killed a dangerous criminal. Without the video, this would have been buried, and it already happened.
Yeah, this is a very important point. The best way to lose support for your cause is to destroy property of those you want support from. It’s why support from BLM dropped so severely.
BLM wasn’t even doing the rioting, but they did nothing to ensure those who used their cause to riot/destroy property were snuffed out. If you come to my home or buisness and destroy my shit, or stand by while others drive in with you and destroy my shit, I’m not supporting your cause.
If people’s property are instead protected, and the violence/destruction is focused towards those who are oppressing them, they’d have way more support and things would get done.
We saw evidence during the BLM protests that violence was being started by police by both beating on peaceful protesters and using agent-provocateurs. The most famous example was the hooded man wearing police issued boots, who wasnt participating in the protest, knocking out the windows of a Target.
My point is that if violence and property destruction discredit a protest for you then the police have already won. They can turn any protest into violence and destruction if not by outright attacking peaceful protests, then by using an agent-provocateur.
We saw evidence during the BLM protests that violence was being started by police by both beating on peaceful protesters and using agent-provocateurs.
Absolutely, and I’m not saying that it’s better/safer to protest against police in the United States.
You need to also keep in mind that the President of the country at the time was a racist and a despicable human being, who would constantly stoke the flames of unrest, and put citizens against the police on several occasions.
I’ll admit that I don’t know as much about Macron than I do Trump, but only because Macron’s decisions don’t directly affect what happens in my country (Canada).
My point is that if violence and property destruction discredit a protest for you then the police have already won.
They don’t discredit the protest, but they make it really hard for me to be on the side of protesters because I don’t believe that destroying private property is effective.
And I hold this belief no matter the cause. I’ve been part of animal rights protests, but completely reject groups who use violence or otherwise break the law to “support our cause”, because it only creates divide.
Yes but how do you know if the people causing property damage are protesters or anti protestors?That was the crux of my last comment. Nobody likes when protesters are violent so showing up to a protest and starting violence is an easy way to shut it down.
That’s a huge accusation. I’m sure there are hooligans and anarchists who just want to fuck shit up, and will create chaos whenever a protest comes up.
But in that case, the protesters would unequivocally denounce the violence, not embrace or partake in it.
It’s easy to pass the blame, but it’s even easier to call out anti-protesters and to separate them from your cause.
Its only easy to call out anti-protesters if you’re well organized. When police attack peaceful protesters and launch tear gas into peaceful crowds, to force dispersion, people panic and act unpredictably.
Haiti won it’s independence from the French when it finally killed all the French people on the island. What did France do? It charged Haitians for the loss of property of French citizens. Which property did the French lose? Their slaves. Literally. So the French put a price on each black person on the island and calculated a debt.
In today’s dollars, that debt was in the billions. That debt still exists today, it is stl generating profit for white Europe. Citi holds the debt and collects the interest.
Sure, it’s possible to protest in a way that makes you comfortable, but white society, and in this case especially French society, has demonstrated that they won’t budge unless you do this. They have zero interest in justice, rule of law, human life, sustainable society. If you ask for liberation they will kill you. If you win your liberation that will punish you and enslave you in different ways. And their allies will support them.
Well a proper response from the government? Not something that antagonize the population, maybe something more human than using ILLEGAL weapons against your people ? Proprety destruction and looting is what you get when you push your people to the brink.
Look, I understand that the people have a grievance, and there are 101 ways to protest that does not include violence and the destruction of property.
How many of them work?
That’s a very loaded question. All of them can work under the right circumstances.
I support violence and destruction, but it needs to be directed at your oppressors, not your neighbors.
Americans didn’t fight off the British with picket signs, they fucking shot them. Then enshrined their rights to own firearms and defend their right to liberty into the constitution as a basic human right.
“The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants”
like a mayor of one of the impacted cities said: “we only talk about them when they burn stuff. they are never invited to talk about this, because it previously happened. This time, someone filmed this, and it countered what the cops were saying.”
Did I say not to burn stuff? Or did I say to burn other stuff?
I have no context for this but how did riots help them to film?
It’s just easier to burn stuff close to where you live i guess.
What i meant is that someone filmed the murder. The cops were already spinning this like they killed a dangerous criminal. Without the video, this would have been buried, and it already happened.
Yeah, this is a very important point. The best way to lose support for your cause is to destroy property of those you want support from. It’s why support from BLM dropped so severely.
BLM wasn’t even doing the rioting, but they did nothing to ensure those who used their cause to riot/destroy property were snuffed out. If you come to my home or buisness and destroy my shit, or stand by while others drive in with you and destroy my shit, I’m not supporting your cause.
If people’s property are instead protected, and the violence/destruction is focused towards those who are oppressing them, they’d have way more support and things would get done.
Based on research, the most effective are the ones that don’t devolve into riots…
We saw evidence during the BLM protests that violence was being started by police by both beating on peaceful protesters and using agent-provocateurs. The most famous example was the hooded man wearing police issued boots, who wasnt participating in the protest, knocking out the windows of a Target.
My point is that if violence and property destruction discredit a protest for you then the police have already won. They can turn any protest into violence and destruction if not by outright attacking peaceful protests, then by using an agent-provocateur.
Absolutely, and I’m not saying that it’s better/safer to protest against police in the United States.
You need to also keep in mind that the President of the country at the time was a racist and a despicable human being, who would constantly stoke the flames of unrest, and put citizens against the police on several occasions.
I’ll admit that I don’t know as much about Macron than I do Trump, but only because Macron’s decisions don’t directly affect what happens in my country (Canada).
They don’t discredit the protest, but they make it really hard for me to be on the side of protesters because I don’t believe that destroying private property is effective.
And I hold this belief no matter the cause. I’ve been part of animal rights protests, but completely reject groups who use violence or otherwise break the law to “support our cause”, because it only creates divide.
Yes but how do you know if the people causing property damage are protesters or anti protestors?That was the crux of my last comment. Nobody likes when protesters are violent so showing up to a protest and starting violence is an easy way to shut it down.
That’s a huge accusation. I’m sure there are hooligans and anarchists who just want to fuck shit up, and will create chaos whenever a protest comes up.
But in that case, the protesters would unequivocally denounce the violence, not embrace or partake in it.
It’s easy to pass the blame, but it’s even easier to call out anti-protesters and to separate them from your cause.
Its only easy to call out anti-protesters if you’re well organized. When police attack peaceful protesters and launch tear gas into peaceful crowds, to force dispersion, people panic and act unpredictably.
And if government would have listened to those 101 ways, People would have resorted to the 102nd way.
Haiti won it’s independence from the French when it finally killed all the French people on the island. What did France do? It charged Haitians for the loss of property of French citizens. Which property did the French lose? Their slaves. Literally. So the French put a price on each black person on the island and calculated a debt.
In today’s dollars, that debt was in the billions. That debt still exists today, it is stl generating profit for white Europe. Citi holds the debt and collects the interest.
Sure, it’s possible to protest in a way that makes you comfortable, but white society, and in this case especially French society, has demonstrated that they won’t budge unless you do this. They have zero interest in justice, rule of law, human life, sustainable society. If you ask for liberation they will kill you. If you win your liberation that will punish you and enslave you in different ways. And their allies will support them.