- cross-posted to:
- evs@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- evs@lemmy.world
A big gamble by General Motors (GM) is causing consternation for its dealers in the all-important race to sell cars — namely electric vehicles.
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Volvo has shown that CarPlay is easily integrated into Android Automotive as an app. I have no idea why GM would alienate so many potential customers by not doing the same.
Integrating Android Auto into Android Automotive is even easier than CarPlay, and GM is dropping it as well. It’s quite literally a built-in feature of Android Automotive that has to be actively removed.
(Just to keep the distinction clear: Android Automotive == A Google Android-based interface for car infotainment, Android Auto == An API for projecting your phone screen and relevant apps to an infotainment display)
It’s 100% about extracting revenue from customers by forcing them to use the manufacturer’s infotainment ecosystem and charge for recurring subscriptions to things your phone will do for free (and in an actually upgradeable manner).
Isn’t it basically just a video stream from the phone with a return stream of tap inputs? How the hell is that hard to implement?
Iirc, it’s been said that the reason for them to ditch CarPlay is so that they can add their own infotainment system where they can charge for subscriptions.
It’s not a technological problem, it’s a “we want to extract every penny out of our customers” problem.
GM thinks they’ll be able to make an in-house software better than CarPlay and Android Auto… I hope I can eat this words and they make it happen, but seeing the whole car industry trying to change their 100+ years way, has been entertaining.
It’s going to be subscription service. And no way can GM beat Apple or Android at a car interface. This just means I’ll never buy another Chevy again.
And no way can GM beat Apple or Android at a car interface.
Poor marketing from GM, Google, and most automakers. A lot of the interfaces are still gonna be Android-based, they’re dropping Android Auto not Android Automotive. Android Automotive being the actual OS that most car infotainment displays come with these days, and is made by Google. Android Auto is just the ability to connect your phone and project it to the display.
Still a shit move, but GM has nowhere near the capability to actually build a good infotainment OS from the ground up.
Not entirely. They’re using Android Automotive and just removing CarPlay and Android auto capability.
GM thinks they’ll be able to make an in-house software better than CarPlay and Android Auto…
Not at all. They think they can make something cheaper that customers will suck it up and endure. This is all about not paying licensing fees. People need to vote with their wallets.
I can’t speak for the licensing costs of Android Auto or Apple CarPlay, I have no idea what they are.
But I do work in the automotive industry as an engineer. The sentiment is very much that it’s about getting customer subscriptions and customer data, to build recurring revenue streams that wouldn’t be possible if people are able to just use their phone and its apps on their infotainment display.
GM at least I know is sticking to Android Automotive, which is built by Google and they pay for anyway. Android Auto and Carplay are just additional functionality built on top of Android Automotive (the naming is bad - Android Automotive is the Google Android-based OS for car displays, Android Auto is the projection tech/api), they’re quite literally removing existing features on a product they’re already paying for.
I highly doubt Google is giving them a huge discount to cut those features, and if they are getting any it’s dwarfed by how much they want to make through subscription services to use your car.
Subscription fees are part of this but I think the direct pipeline to the customer data is a bigger factor.
When cars fly
Well that’s one way to make sure I never buy a car. If the car does not have Apple CarPlay and the android equivalent I literally won’t buy it. Given if it’s too old to have that technology that’s one thing, then I will still look at it, but if it’s new or newer… yeah no.
For slightly older cars without those features, it’s often simple to replace the radio head unit with an aftermarket one that has them, and a larger screen, and capability to add a reverse camera if you don’t have one.
I did this in my 2012 Tundra and having the option of Car Play or Android Auto is so nice. Having Waze navigate, PlexAmp stream my music and have all that info on the display is awesome. Meanwhile my wife’s 2015 Rav4 has outdated, out of support navigation and slow as hell interface. I’d love to replace it too, but I’ll have to see if replacing it breaks any of the cars other functions. I’ve used Crutchfield the past three I’ve replaced. Put in your car model and they will add everything you need to get it going.
Seeing so many brands (especially GM) with their full LCD displays, I know those will eventually have some kind of problem. It’s insane to me to have those be the main panel display. I can’t imagine the cost to replace them or if you can even get the parts in 5-10 years.
This problem with proprietary screens can be resolved/mitigated with a cheap Android Auto/CarPlay dash-mounted remote display. They are basically a touchscreen tablet on an arm, with Bluetooth, an Aux Output and a cigarette lighter plug. There are cheap ones ($300) and incredibly cheap ones ($50).
I would recommend GM dealers (who don’t want to sell their franchise back to GM because this is a fucking stupid move) to invest in pallets of these things and give them away for free to new car owners who aren’t satisfied with the factory In-Car Entertainment.
Exactly.
And you are definitely not alone. Super out of touch corporate goons.
Meanwhile Porsche are developing an even tighter integration allowing you to control parts of the car through the CarPlay interface.
Most manufacturers have apps for managing customer relationships (servicing, vehicle features etc). I’m surprised more manufacturers have not created CarPlay/Android Auto interfaces for these Apps.
Porsche also refused to enable Android Auto on their vehicles for a very long time because Google were making outrageous demands for vehicle telemetry information as part of licensing agreements.
Porsche also refused to enable Android Auto on their vehicles for a very long time because Google were making outrageous demands for vehicle telemetry information as part of licensing agreements.
Did google or Porsche cave in?
Google changed their policy. Porsche consider their vehicle telemetry to be Trade Secret. Porsche also considered that the demographic of customers that deliberately chose Android instead of IOS and wanted to use an in-car interface were not worth the effort.
They have also rolled out CarPlay to most historical vehicles.
Mercedes-Benz original foray into CarPlay was restricted to certain In-Car Entertainment systems, that were only fitted to certain models. They also had issues with Android Auto licensing early on. Early variants could be configured for Android Auto or CarPlay, but not both. This was fixed in a software update about the same time that Porsche resolved their issues with Google.
Apple CarKey is very interesting. I have an Apple Watch and would have loved to ditch my car keys.
Last time I checked only a few manufacturers supporting it in the 2023-2024 model years.
Newer (>2018) Teslas have phone key via BT LE. It’s a game changer. I haven’t carried keys in over five years between a keypad lock on the front door, garage door opener, and phone key.
I think he’s referring to CarPlay seconds generation which Apple announced last year and will completely change the way CarPlay works
I can’t wait to see what the second generation CarPlay will bring!
They should be. I sure as hell won’t buy any car that lacks CarPlay.
I can understand why auto manufacturers don’t want to implement Android Auto/Apple CarPlay into their vehicles — namely licensing costs.
But I have never been a fan of auto manufacturer specific infotainment systems. Clunky. App integration and connection usually flaky. Poor support after 1-2 years.
Usually just end up defaulting to an AUX cord and using my phone for road entertainment.
I might not be up to date on this but to my knowledge Apple is not charging any licensing fees for CarPlay.
GM doesn’t have the expertise to pull this off.
This is the like software on TVs. No thank you to software that doesn’t see an update after a year and only support some of the most common apps, but yes thank you for Android and Apple TV.
Oh and don’t forget the subscription fee for the garbage software 😂
I guess GM have determined that they will come out ahead by losing potential customers with this move but making more money by going the nickel and dime, subscription service route for the customers they manage to keep.
I suspect they’re wrong.
In the history of capitalism, the only way that a paid service has become successful over a free service has been to create greater value. GM software engineers vs Apple and Android software engineers? Everyone can see where this is going.
My parents retired from GM, and get a discount on vehicles I can use. So sign me up for a 2024 Chevy Blazer EV. Wait, what? No CarPlay?
We are enjoying our 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5 very much, thanks for asking. We especially enjoy the CarPlay integration. :-) It has been disappointing watching GM, year after year, get to the five yard line and then fumble.
Man, I’ve driven a Chevy most my life and it makes me a little sad that I’m going to have to switch for my next car.
GM you were off the list before and now you will not return to the list.
This is equivalent of trying to sell a modern TV without support for any smart apps. FOR AN EXTRA CHARGE. Pisses me off that taxpayers will once again have to bail out the failed shitshow that will be a GM backruptcy.
I’d happily pay extra for a TV without a bunch of bad apps its chip can’t run available. And you’d also have to because they’re subsidizing the price of the unit to bombard you with ads.
100% agree. I still have a 40” 1080p dumb tv because I can’t find one that I trust to not do something annoying/invasive.
I nearly bought the same one my friend has (Samsung something) as it seemed pretty inoffensive, until he told me it had started showing ads on the menu screens a few months after he bought it.
Don’t connect it to the internet?
I just blocked the TV’s MAC address at the router, and plugged in an AppleTV (I trust Apple way more than any tv manufacturer). Turning it on just shows what on Input 1 (the ATV), completely bypassing any internal “smart” apps.
You can just take the subsidized TV and never connect it to the internet.
It doesn’t fix the problem of the heavy broken OS the chip isn’t capable of running to make every interaction a slog. Smart TVs are absolute dumpster fires at basic tasks like switching between inputs, after you jump through the 30 settings to turn off all the “optimizations” that make the image look like shit with the bonus of super high latency.
My LG runs perfectly fine. I’ve never connected it to the internet. I was able to update its firmware with a USB drive to get a bug fix for VRR.
Same for the Samsung that lives in my bedroom.
Bad analogy, Smart TVs actually do suck and so do their apps. This is like replacing WinAmp with RealPlayer.
I feel like auto makers should just hire sampsung or some known device maker to create an android based infotainment system. Like it would feel hella more fluid
Ford contracted Microsoft to create the Ford Sync system which is still (arguably) the best UI/UX for a In-Car Entertainment system and is compatible with CarPly and Android Auto.
Ironically it never worked with any of the Windows Phone devices…
Wait so every ford has some stripped down version of windows with a custom UI???
It was a complete custom UI running on QNX. It had nothing to do with the WinNT platform, or any of its derivates.
I mean, your link shows that the guy above was right that Microsoft was involved. It would depend on the model year. And future versions are planned to run on Android.
From your wikipedia link: The first two generations (Ford Sync and MyFord Touch) run on the Windows Embedded Automotive operating system designed by Microsoft,[3] while the third and fourth generations (Sync 3 and Sync 4/4a) runs on the QNX operating system from BlackBerry Limited.[4] Future versions will run on the Android operating system from Google.[5]
That was surprising, maybe not since I know Microsoft makes a Linux distro for servers but I guess I was expecting it to be like how they Xbox runs NT
Three main factors imho: The current infotainment systems are not fluid due to saving cost on the chipset. The Android Automotive platform will only soon hit many new models by many different manufacturers as it takes a few years to decelop a new car. The shitty UX is mostly hampered by legal guideline nightmares you’ll have to stick to (which phone manufacturers don’t have to).
Not trying to make excuses here, I’m only using Android Auto as well lol
Companies that are primarily device manufacturers pretty much suck at software development.
