And an article by Time reporting the kidnapping of children being investigated as genocide, and that there is already enough evidence for the allegations
None of these articles formally come to the conclusion that there is a definitive genocide. They are meant to bait racist bloodthirsty rubes like you to into acting on your biases.
Members of the U.N. Independent Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine also expressed concerns about allegations of genocide by Russian forces, and said they’re looking into them.
expressed concerns about allegations
looking into them
Keep hallucinating wishfully.
From statista:
The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 9,614 civilian deaths during Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as of September, 2023. Furthermore, 17,535 people were reported to have been injured. However, OHCHR specified that the real numbers could be higher.
Even if these estimates are extremely conservative they are low for a genocide. Perhaps Russians are just terrible at genocide and should learn from Americans.
President Zelenskyy is from a Ukrainian Jewish family. At the start of the war Russia claimed Ukraine was taken over by Nazis and they were trying to liberate the country. It was a ridiculous claim and they had to come up with other justifications afterwards
Is it fair to characterise the Ukrainian leadership as Jewish because the President is Jewish?
With the same logic you could say that the USA was under “black leadership” when Obama was president. Whether that is technically true depends on what you mean by “black leadership” and what your expect to entail from it. However, under the leadership of the black president and various black members of House and Senate, black people still continued to be ghettoised, red lined, incarcerated disproportionately, and in general be socioeconomically disadvantaged.
With that in mind, is a Jewish president an enough of an influence to declare the whole leadership Jewish? How do you reconcile that with the constant barrage photos of Ukrainian soldiers with SS and Banderite insignias and tattoos?
Well, in context of “the Nazis have taken over and our only option is a military operation to remove the government”, I highly doubt the Nazis would allow a Jewish person to be elected as president in the first place. If they don’t have that ability then they clearly don’t have enough power to justify a foreign invasion
If they were serious about stopping Nazis maybe they should have started with Dmitry Utkin who has Nazi tattoos and literally named the state-funded Wagner group after Hitler’s favorite composer.
It’s almost like this has never been about stopping Nazis at all
I highly doubt the Nazis would allow a Jewish person to be elected as president in the first place
Why would they not allow that? Literally one Jewish in a seat of power is enough for people like you to turn a blind eye towards entire Nazi batallions. This is after I gave the example of the Obama and how a leader’s identity is not necessarily concominant with the direction the state is headed in. Similarly one picture of Utkin with Nazi tattoos is enough to convince you that Wagner in its entirety is Nazi or Nazi aligned or whatever your point is but you won’t extend the same courtesy towards Biletsky or the photos of Ukrainian soldiers with Nazi symbology.
It ia possible that Putin and Russia are not ideologically opposed to Nazism though with the WW2 it seems unlikely. Normal people don’t believe that the Russian invasion is Putin’s holy crusade against the Nazi ideology or a Duginist quest to expand the Russian empire. People who don’t base their ontology off of Harry Potter understand that war and conflict for materially grounded reasons rather than ideological initiatives. Russia’s invasion was provoked by a US backed coup which installed a pro-US leadership at Russia’s doorstep and armed nao-Nazi militias that have been waging an ethnic war against the Russian speaking regions of Ukraine that did not accept the legitimacy of the post-coup government. It does not matter if they are Nazis or Death Eaters of whatever. The war is a response to agressive posturing by the west. Discussions of ideological and rhetorical honesty are not relevant.
‚In addition, and despite some people (i.e., Norman Naimark) saying “The Soviet Union made no efforts to provide relief”, reports show that the Central Soviet Authorities sent hundreds of thousands of tonnes of food aid to Ukraine. In early February of 1933, Odessa and Dnepropetrovsk regions each received 3,300 tonnes of food aid. By the end of February, the Dnipropetrovsk region received 20,000 tonnes of food aid, Odessa received around 13,000 tonnes, and Kharkiv received almost 5,000 tonnes. Reports document that from February to June in the year of 1933, over 500,000 tonnes of food aid was sent to Ukraine. According to archived documents, Joseph Stalin himself, along with Molotov, personally took it upon themselves to scold Joseph Vareikis, First Secretary of the Voronezh Regional Committee of the CPSU, on March 31st of 1933 for his objection to sending 26,000 pounds of potatoes to the Donbass region of Ukraine. These behaviors including, but not limited to, sending food aid and at that personally intervening to ensure food aid is being given, is fairly odd or strange behavior for, as the “holodomor-genocide” campaigners would say, a “genocidal maniac who wanted to kill Ukrainians”. Truly, there was no reason for Stalin to go as far as personally intervening in that situation as he did to ensure food aid was sent to Ukraine if he was genuinely trying to create a famine to crush Ukraine.‘
You can also find archived docs of that time where the exact numbers and policies are described; it’s in Cyrillic though.
@OurToothbrush I did not compare who to Stalin directly, although reading what I did right I understand the misscommunication. Putin has expressed admiration for Stalin and the significant evidence that he would like to be like Stalin, but I agree that he is not quite there. He has expressed a wish to rebuild the Soviet Union and eliminate true democracy both in former Soviet Union states, in russia, and in the rest of the world. If you look at what he has done in the world, genocide is definitely in his wheelhouse.
Putin might want to be like the idea of Stalin he has in his head, but not the actual “paperwork can wait, hunger cannot” revolutionary communist Stalin.
I’m wondering if you just posted the link without reading any results and are just doubling down to sound correct.
One of the first articles is AP news reporting UN backed human rights groups calling it genocide
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-human-rights-663b3a4ba24499d93f3f889e98f8b652
And an article by Time reporting the kidnapping of children being investigated as genocide, and that there is already enough evidence for the allegations
https://time.com/6262903/russia-ukraine-genocide-war-crimes/
None of these articles formally come to the conclusion that there is a definitive genocide. They are meant to bait racist bloodthirsty rubes like you to into acting on your biases.
Keep hallucinating wishfully.
From statista:
Even if these estimates are extremely conservative they are low for a genocide. Perhaps Russians are just terrible at genocide and should learn from Americans.
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Jewish leadership?
President Zelenskyy is from a Ukrainian Jewish family. At the start of the war Russia claimed Ukraine was taken over by Nazis and they were trying to liberate the country. It was a ridiculous claim and they had to come up with other justifications afterwards
Is it fair to characterise the Ukrainian leadership as Jewish because the President is Jewish?
With the same logic you could say that the USA was under “black leadership” when Obama was president. Whether that is technically true depends on what you mean by “black leadership” and what your expect to entail from it. However, under the leadership of the black president and various black members of House and Senate, black people still continued to be ghettoised, red lined, incarcerated disproportionately, and in general be socioeconomically disadvantaged.
With that in mind, is a Jewish president an enough of an influence to declare the whole leadership Jewish? How do you reconcile that with the constant barrage photos of Ukrainian soldiers with SS and Banderite insignias and tattoos?
Well, in context of “the Nazis have taken over and our only option is a military operation to remove the government”, I highly doubt the Nazis would allow a Jewish person to be elected as president in the first place. If they don’t have that ability then they clearly don’t have enough power to justify a foreign invasion
If they were serious about stopping Nazis maybe they should have started with Dmitry Utkin who has Nazi tattoos and literally named the state-funded Wagner group after Hitler’s favorite composer.
It’s almost like this has never been about stopping Nazis at all
Why would they not allow that? Literally one Jewish in a seat of power is enough for people like you to turn a blind eye towards entire Nazi batallions. This is after I gave the example of the Obama and how a leader’s identity is not necessarily concominant with the direction the state is headed in. Similarly one picture of Utkin with Nazi tattoos is enough to convince you that Wagner in its entirety is Nazi or Nazi aligned or whatever your point is but you won’t extend the same courtesy towards Biletsky or the photos of Ukrainian soldiers with Nazi symbology.
It ia possible that Putin and Russia are not ideologically opposed to Nazism though with the WW2 it seems unlikely. Normal people don’t believe that the Russian invasion is Putin’s holy crusade against the Nazi ideology or a Duginist quest to expand the Russian empire. People who don’t base their ontology off of Harry Potter understand that war and conflict for materially grounded reasons rather than ideological initiatives. Russia’s invasion was provoked by a US backed coup which installed a pro-US leadership at Russia’s doorstep and armed nao-Nazi militias that have been waging an ethnic war against the Russian speaking regions of Ukraine that did not accept the legitimacy of the post-coup government. It does not matter if they are Nazis or Death Eaters of whatever. The war is a response to agressive posturing by the west. Discussions of ideological and rhetorical honesty are not relevant.
Well thank God we’re sending those Nazis out to die, then!
Did you misread the AP link? The un group provides reports of war crimes, not genocide.
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The links provided literally claim war crimes, they do not claim genocide.
Also Stalin did some terrible things but comparing him to Putin is ridiculous.
@OurToothbrush I did not compare who to Stalin directly, although reading what I did right I understand the misscommunication. Putin has expressed admiration for Stalin and the significant evidence that he would like to be like Stalin, but I agree that he is not quite there. He has expressed a wish to rebuild the Soviet Union and eliminate true democracy both in former Soviet Union states, in russia, and in the rest of the world. If you look at what he has done in the world, genocide is definitely in his wheelhouse.
Putin might want to be like the idea of Stalin he has in his head, but not the actual “paperwork can wait, hunger cannot” revolutionary communist Stalin.
@OurToothbrush In Ukraine, Stalin created starvation.
@OurToothbrush https://www.history.com/news/ukrainian-famine-stalin
Literally not even liberal historians believe that. See: Conquest, Wheatcroft, Davies, Applebaum.
@OurToothbrush https://www.history.com/news/ukrainian-famine-stalin