The Grace Hopper Celebration is meant to unite women in tech. This year droves of men came looking for jobs.

  • Touching_Grass@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    59
    arrow-down
    23
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    I try my best not to be an asshole

    Maybe people are getting too in the weeds with this because muh culture war

    But it is an asshole move to show up to an event meant for one group of people when the original issue is how over represented your group is. I’m a developer. The grind sucks. But I would be an asshole to show up to this.

    • sudneo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      44
      arrow-down
      25
      ·
      1 year ago

      But it is an asshole move to show up to an event meant for one group of people when the original issue is how over represented your group is. I’m a developer. The grind sucks. But I would be an asshole to show up to this.

      If I was out of job, I would honestly care less about the fact that “my group” is over represented. There is no white male lobby that pays my mortgage. That said, I - as in the actual me - would not go to such event either, but that’s also because I wouldn’t go to any job fair atm since I don’t need a job.

      • Touching_Grass@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        43
        arrow-down
        23
        ·
        1 year ago

        I would honestly care less about the fact that

        Sure, that’s what makes people behave like assholes. “I don’t care about X” is why we have a pretty shitty world in many areas.

        • sudneo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          31
          arrow-down
          16
          ·
          1 year ago

          This is pure rhetoric, I can flip the argument:

          “You care more about the gender than about my material condition.”

          Also, the moment I need to let prevail abstract concepts over my material condition (i.e., caring about “my group” being over represented while I am out of a job) is the moment in which the class unity is broken. Me and those women who are out of a job have so much in common that there is no reason for me to consider us part of two separate groups. That’s the whole point of my argument, I advocate for worker solidarity and I absolutely feel that this attitude is overall harmful for it.

          • Touching_Grass@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            29
            arrow-down
            17
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I don’t agree. I can be at a disadvantage and still accept that another group has even greater disadvantages that I would continue or make worse by stepping into something they built. Its freeloading in a pretty assholish way. I’m not just some animal trying to get a nut with narrow focus that says fuck everything else. I can job search and find my own opportunities without freeloading

            • sudneo@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              17
              arrow-down
              12
              ·
              1 year ago

              Let me say this: to me this seems the completed detached thought of someone who never faced material difficulties.

              I can only think this if I am in a position of privilege where I can choose. I absolutely can’t relate with any of this, I completely agree to disagree.

              • Touching_Grass@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                14
                arrow-down
                10
                ·
                1 year ago

                That would only make sense coming from a position where you assume people have no sense of integrity.

                First issue is assuming your material difficulties is some how superior to others.

                Second assuming the only thing that matters when facing material difficulties is how to advantage only yourself.

                Lots of people in life are capable of enduring difficult times while also sacrificing or placing themselves behind others. I don’t see how you don’t understand that. I can promise you I have faced and continue to face many difficulties which all have taught me life lessons. One of the most important lessons is that overcoming those times by hurting others is not a position I enjoy.

                • sudneo@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  13
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  people have no sense of integrity.

                  I genuinely think this has nothing to do with integrity.

                  First issue is assuming your material difficulties is some how superior to others.

                  This is not an issue, it’s absolutely normal, because I am aware of my material difficulties, while I am not aware of other people’s one to the same extent. I can’t decide not to buy a house because by doing so I increase the demand, which increases prices and makes it harder for poor people to afford housing. You are putting the burden to address a systemic issue on another victim.

                  Second assuming the only thing that matters when facing material difficulties is how to advantage only yourself.

                  I am not saying this is the only thing that matters, but I am saying it matters, and I think it’s completely unfair to think that people shouldn’t take care of themselves. I turn my eye to the mechanisms that create the scarcity that put me and a woman to fight for resources, not on either one of them.

                  Lots of people in life are capable of enduring difficult times while also sacrificing or placing themselves behind others. I don’t see how you don’t understand that.

                  Again, I think we have simply too different of a perception of what means a difficult time. Sorry, but this argument to me sounds as complete madness.

                  One of the most important lessons is that overcoming those times by hurting others is not a position I enjoy.

                  So not only I am forced to sell my labor to survive, which is the only chance I have, but when I do I am anyway hurting others. So what are my options? Suicide? Any job I am going to take, whether it comes though this fair or not, I am taking it potentially from an under represented category, be it a woman, an old person, black folks, LGBTQ+ community, etc. So I should just stop working?

                  I will say more, if you carry on your line of reasoning further, any of the people working in tech is US are participating in a system that in a bigger scale hurts people from third world countries (thinking for example of labor exploitation) and pollutes the planet. So what should people do?

                  The working class should build solidarity, should develop a consciousness that allow them to fight united against the system that creates arbitrary scarcity of resources, not self-police and create a hierarchy to split the crumbles among themselves.

                  • Touching_Grass@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    arrow-down
                    8
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    I can’t decide not to buy a house because by doing so I increase the demand, which increases prices and makes it harder for poor people to afford housing.

                    Not sure why you can’t do that. But people do that everyday. Its a personal calculation. Look at how many people choose not to have kids because they feel the world is over populated. How many people carry garbage until they reach a garbage can. Lots of these calculations occur every day. As we become shittier and shitier people then less and less of the calculations happen. More garbage ends up on streets.

                    So what are my options? Suicide?

                    Use a job board or fair that is for you.

                    So I should just stop working?

                    You shouldn’t go to a job fair for a group that you’re not a part of.

                    So what should people do?

                    This is taking it to absurd lengths. Its a balancing act. A calculation that we all make day to day. Some put more emphasis on themselves. Like most people don’t feel like they need to attend job fairs for women when they are not a women. When I left the military I attended job fairs for veterans. Should you also be invited to those? What about job fairs at the university I attended?

                    The working class should build solidarity

                    Entering a space we weren’t invited to take away their opportunity would not be solidarity.

              • ZombieTheZombieCat@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                9
                arrow-down
                11
                ·
                1 year ago

                this seems the completed detached thought of someone who never faced material difficulties.

                Yes, all of your comments do.

                • sudneo@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  10
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Any specific part? Or you just wanted to do the snarky comment without committing to an actual discussion?

                • sudneo@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Women are in the exact same position you are in, with the added disadvantage of being women

                  This is your assumption. You are assuming that the men going to the event are average men, which on average are more likely to be employed in tech. I don’t think that’s true in this case, I think it’s mostly desperate people, possibly also from marginalized groups. Looking at the video I see mostly foreigners, possibly in need of a visa to not be kicked out of the country. Keep in mind they paid 600 bucks for a super tiny chance (imagine what are the chances that recruiters at that event will not ignore them because they went there to recruit women).

                  Also, reading a bit online it seems that there is always been a percentage of men attending that event.

                  I will not address the last paragraph, your suggestion of what “this proves” is completely arbitrary and prejudicial, I won’t say what that proves, instead.

        • cricket97@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          11
          ·
          1 year ago

          You have a job and likely an established career, to be perfectly honest your view does not mean much here. There are people struggling to get a job after going into major debt for college loans, you bet your ass they’re going to grind until they get a job. Maybe put actual policy in place to prevent males from attending if that’s what is desired.

          • Touching_Grass@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I had to uproot my entire family after losing my 15 year career in an Industry I no longer could work in. I had to attend school and feed multiple mouths plus parent only to end up in an over saturated job market prone with agism. For one year i had to go back to living with my parents to attend school where I commuted 3 hours a day. So don’t give me this shit about what I am or not based on clues you think you uncovered from a couple comments Scooby Doo. I know the grind more than most

            And you know what I never once thought? I never once thought “hey I better go to that women’s job fair.”

    • steltek@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I would be an asshole to show up to this.

      That’s the part I really don’t get. If you’re cis male looking for a job, do you really think crashing this event is going to reflect favorably on you and that you’d be more likely to land a job? People are going to look at you and think that you have good judgment and won’t be a problem at all? What the heck is the thought process that makes this a good plan?

      • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        I assume most tech bros have a mental form of tinnitus going on in their brains in lieu of thoughts. Just a constant bzzzzzzzzzz

    • Dude123@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      It is legally discrimination. What part of that isn’t understood? Substitute women for any other group based on height, age, race, religion, or sexual preference and see that your argument doesn’t hold water.