Starfield is wide as an ocean, and as deep as a thimble.
Exploration quickly gets tiresome, Most the quests are decidedly average, and every mechanic in the game feels like they stopped and said good enough half way through development, and there are mechanics that were very obviously abandoned but left in the game as vestigial annoyances… Its very reminiscent of Cyberpunks release, imho.
So my personal suggestion, if you must buy a game to play right now, is to buy something else, and come back to Starfield in a year, and hopefully by then they’ve listened to player feed back and made some drastic improvements to the game, story, and mechanics… Or if you don’t want to wait a year, then at least wait until after the creation kit is released.
IMHO, Its the weakest game Bethesda has ever released, and doesnt even hit the engaging Bethesda points that previous games excelled at… Mostly because you do nothing but fast travel between comparatively tiny rooms, and any exploration is either 1 time discovery of planets you’ll fast travel to later, or frustrating searching for the last mineral/flora/fauna you need to complete a planetary survey.
I would say New Vegas, but thats kind of cheating since Bethesda only published it, didnt make it.
As for Bethesda made games… I really don’t have a favorite, per se… Previous games all scratch the same itch in their own unique ways, Depending on what you’re wanting on your plate at the moment since they are all fairly decent at hitting good highs and lows with beautifully designed worlds that reward exploration. Even with the internet and wiki’s listing out everything known, I still find things in TES/FO that I never knew about before.
They have that real great sense of wonder and splendor as you are wandering their worlds, dealing with interesting fights, etc.
Which is one of the many reasons why Starfield missed the mark. There is no sense of wonder or exploration beyond cutscenes like ship launches, which quickly lose their luster with repetition. With the previous games, You could wander from one major settlement, to another… might be a 5 minute trip between the two points real time, but it takes hours to get there cause you keep discovering new points of interest, new locations, new random emergent interactions, and getting sidetracked by all of them and ending up looking at the clock and going “Holyshit its THIS late?! how did that happen?!”, and the only time you’d hit a loading screen is when you entered/exited a dungeon.
In Starfield, you just… get on your ship and jump from Point A to B, the only “exploration” being running from your ship across a mostly empty void to the quest marker. Yeah, you could poke around the map, if you are doing surveys or looking for PoIs, but theres such an astonishing lack of variety in the PoIs you quickly learn to recognize them from a distance, and know not to bother cause the 100th one you clear is exactly same as the first, with the only difference at all in the enemies that spawn in relation to your level, but still be very weak and easily die. Plus, theres so many loading screens to get anywhere that it is just jarring and, imho, really keeps you ripped out of being immersed in teh game.
And I want to be clear, This isnt comparing games with 5 years of patches and content additions to Day 1 Starfield. I’ve played most of Bethesdas modern games day 1, and I will absolutely admit that those games were buggy, crashtastic messes, While Starfield has been remarkable stable (only had like 5 crashes in 100+ hours of play, all on fast travel, which apparently was a bug that could be bypassed by disabling steam overlay).
I don’t have any hate for Starfield, though. I’m just enormously disappointed that it doesnt even measure up to its predecessors, which did more with less, both computer hardware wise and design wise.
Thanks for posting this. The way you describe getting lost on the way in other bethesda games is something I was having trouble putting into words myself.
That was really the magic of Bethesda games pre-starfield.
You would discover so much world, world building, and lore, by just wandering getting sidetracked and wandering. And it was so deeply engrossing that you didnt realize how much time passed.
I personally disagree with New Vegas as the best Bethesda game. The qualities that people like the most about Bethesda, namely the open world and getting lost in it vibe, is least present in New Vegas.
I love it, it took me a while to really get into it but it was well worth it.
My best suggestion would be to ignore the main story and follow side quests, that’s the real meat of the game.
Exploration is a mixed bag, if you are expecting Skyrim where you can get lost going in any direction you are going to be disappointed. The planets are mostly empty but incredibly well made from a space simulation standpoint, I spent a while just traveling the solar system and taking pictures of cool places I found.
I think following the main quest until the first temple is a good idea, personally. After that, you’re in a pretty good spot to decide whether you want to pursue the main quest line more or focus on side quests.
Yeah, that’s a good point to go do something else. I do wish the game was better at explaining how it’s systems work though, I’m still figuring stuff out 80 hours in.
I mean, I got it as part of Xbox gamepass so in a way it’s freeish (and in a bigger more tangible way it’s not lol). I’m enjoying it, first 12 hours sucked and I nearly dropped it, but it got much better.
Just an imo, it’s very similar to fallout 4 I’d say. Nothing more, nothing less. There isn’t some amazing questlines or a complete reimagining of the formula. Just change stuff to space, and remove maps to become this shitty starfield system and there you go. So it depends if you enjoyed fallout 4.
No man’s sky similarly had a rough launch in terms of empty promises, bugs, lack of meaningful side content but ended up being recovered by another company and has been producing non stop updates, patches, and major updates ever since and has topped the leader board for most played games on the steam deck
I’m not bashing anyone else’s feelings on this topic, I personally just feel like this was way more empty than any of bethesdas other games like fallout 4.
Not to mention all the other games that were pushed off so they could work on their “masterpiece”
The facial rigging and animations are constantly bugged or straight up nightmarish (par for the course, shit happens, I’ll give it a pass)
Not to mention the settlement system which is somehow less than what the settlement system was in fallout 4 and 76.
And if this companion tells me to stop picking up junk one more time I’m putting her in the god damn air lock
I’m not bashing anyone else’s feelings on this topic
Well you say that …
pushed off so they could work on their “masterpiece”
But you have to admit, the sarcastic tone does come across as a little belligerent.
I mean you rushed the main story, and decided the game wasn’t for you, and that’s fair enough. But there’s a huge amount of stuff that no-one is going to be able to come to grips with in 20 hours, and I say based on having ten times that amount and still finding new things. So entitled as you are to give your opinion, I hope you’ll forgive me if offer my own by way of contrast.
Of course I’m cool with your opinion, it’s what makes convos more interesting
To clarify “masterpiece” was in quotes to signify them having used that sort of verbiage and not as a mocking mechanism
Would you care to share some of these findings?
I personally haven’t completed the story yet, as I said that was a friend who had completed it in that timeframe. I’m working the hell out of side quests, I only just got the mission from the Russian dude in the space station for the main story but I’m deep into the crimson pirate faction line missions, amongst other side questions.
My point is that, yes they can pack in all this side content, but the majority of the games functionality is not finished, is broken, is widely disliked, or is just insanely mundane/formulaic
It’s a losing battle constantly putting out “new things” I can concede that, but don’t up the price tag or make such bold claims ya know what I mean? I played every Bethesda game since morrowind right up until the bs with fallout 76 (yes including doom and the like) I just don’t think they’re keeping up and I think they’re greedy.
That’s just how I see it based off these last few releases. (Come on man, you gotta at least admit the rigging and animations are pretty bad for a AAA title)
To clarify “masterpiece” was in quotes to signify them having used that sort of verbiage and not as a mocking mechanism
Clarification accepted.
as I said that was a friend who had completed it in that timeframe.
Didn’t say it to me. All I got was “$70. 20-30 hours. Play NMS instead”. Did sound a little on the mocking side, if I’m entirely honest.
My point is that, yes they can pack in all this side content, but the majority of the games functionality is not finished, is broken, is widely disliked, or is just insanely mundane/formulaic
All of which is subjective, of course. I’ve found very little that is broken or which strikes me as “insanely mundane or formulaic”. As for widely disliked. it’s difficult to evaluate the truth of than when may of those same dislikers were trying to talk the game down before it was even released.
Come back in a year and we’ll pick this up then. People will either being playing it or not, and either way we’ll have our answer. Until then, all you’re doing here is slinging mud.
Come on man, you gotta at least admit the rigging and animations are pretty bad for a AAA title
I honestly don’t believe I do. I guess it’s like HiFi systems - beyond a certain point I’m not sure I can tell the difference. So long as it doesn’t impinge on my enjoyment (and it hasn’t so far), why should I care?
You’re absolutely right on that second bit, my bad.
“Play nms instead” was also genuine, I have hundreds of hours in that game and they deserve attention for how much of a comeback they did, but I understand where you’re coming from.
However, that 3rd point I gotta push back on. Bugs are not subjective, neither is incomplete functionality.
Im gonna pass on the slinging mud comment, I think that was just an attempt to downplay my argument.
Lastly, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked into your ship and the crew mates are all standing on top of their seats glitched into the roof? You’ve never seen one npc or companion doing the stationary ghost walking animation?
If you honestly think the facial expressions are indiscernible from real facial expressions I think we can probably just stop this convo here as you’re very obviously not being honest or truthful with yourself, but maybe I’m wrong.
Thanks for having a civil convo with me btw. I appreciate it more than you probably realize.
Yes, there are bugs. I mean there are going to be bugs in any software project of this size and complexity, but OK - that doesn’t mean the bugs don’t exist. I’ll grant that. And yes, there are what appear to be incomplete systems. The code for fuel economy and environmental hazards appears to have been ripped out at a comparatively late stage, and you can see where they’ve papered over the cracks.
And while no-one is saying either of these are good things, per se, there is a question of magnitude to consider. Forgive the minor paraphrasing, but “not finished, broken or widely disliked” rather suggests that the villagers have assembled with pitchforks and torches and are in the process of storming the castle - and that doesn’t seem to be the case. Certainly I don’t think that the game’s failings are storming-the-castle bad, and if you believe otherwise, then here we have indisputable subjectivity.
As for misplaced actors - have you played a lot of Bethesda games before this one? In Skyrim, it’s not uncommon to see someone asleep, floating on the air, three feet to the side of their bed. Positioning glitches happen, and I guess long time Bethesda players tend to take it in their stride. Granted, if everyone I talk to has their head embedded in the ceiling that would be problematic, but I can honestly say I’ve only seen it once or twice in Starfield. It’s not a game-breaker, at least not at level I’ve seen.
Facial expressions? I’ve played Morrowind. I’m not expecting Uncanny Valley realism here. These are characters in a computer game and all expressions are going to be approximations of real life. Tell me that your favorite game does it better and I’ll probably take your word for it, but I’m still not seeing anything that would incite me to burn the Baron’s castle to the ground.
Thanks for having a civil convo with me btw. I appreciate it more than you probably realize.
I try. Since you gave me a pass on mud slinging, I’ll cut you a break for “you’re very obviously not being honest or truthful with yourself” :)
@stevedidWHAT I think comparing Starfield’s launch to No Man’s Sky’s launch is being a little histrionic. Starfield launched with bugs - what A-list game hasn’t in the past 10 years? - but it’s not like the game is unplayable or broken. Yes, it can be annoying at times, but maybe the game just isn’t for you: not every game has to be loved by every gamer.
I suspect a lot of these posts are just people searching for a reason to dump on whatever is the current topic of conversation.
I suspect you’re looking for correlations that aren’t even that accurate/reliable
No man sky wasn’t unplayable either
And it got SHIT on despite it being a small time company (hello games, maybe not exactly indie but definitely younger and less experienced than Bethesda assuredly)
Why is everyone so defensive of powerful giants?
Not to mention the fact that Bethesda (for their second release in a row) has the audacity to charge more for less gameplay. Sure it has promise, but don’t have the balls to charge me even more (I guess we’re all cool with $70 games now) for a game that took at least 6 years (if not more) to make that still drops with crazy and immersion breaking bugs ( I think that’s a fairly consistent feature we all look for in a game across the board)
@stevedidWHAT Not really “defensive of giants”. Just not understanding how people get so worked up over tiny things in something as unimportant as a video game.
Seriously, some of these posts sound like Starfield broke into their house and killed their dog. Seems like everyone could dial it back a solid 30%
I think people are valid in their venting of frustrations.
This isn’t frustration entirely against this game or even just Bethesda. We’re humans, we’re complicated and have loooooots of things that influence our attitudes and behaviors.
The frustration you see is likely part of frustrations that are held with lots of commodities we seemingly pay more and more for and get less and less from.
It’s not just Bethesda, the frustration is much larger than that and to try and downplay that is just ignorant of peoples lives and the bigger picture itself (in my opinion of course)
@stevedidWHAT I get being frustrated, although like you say, seems this is a much bigger problem than- I’m shocked by the way the gaming industry treats its customers and what those customers put up with. Feels more like a junkie/pusher relationship than an entertainment industry.
But honestly, issues with games are very much a rich people problem, akin to getting all worked up over the quality of Starbucks coffee. No one’s playing Starfield on an inexpensive device.
Removed by mod
Starfield is wide as an ocean, and as deep as a thimble.
Exploration quickly gets tiresome, Most the quests are decidedly average, and every mechanic in the game feels like they stopped and said good enough half way through development, and there are mechanics that were very obviously abandoned but left in the game as vestigial annoyances… Its very reminiscent of Cyberpunks release, imho.
So my personal suggestion, if you must buy a game to play right now, is to buy something else, and come back to Starfield in a year, and hopefully by then they’ve listened to player feed back and made some drastic improvements to the game, story, and mechanics… Or if you don’t want to wait a year, then at least wait until after the creation kit is released.
IMHO, Its the weakest game Bethesda has ever released, and doesnt even hit the engaging Bethesda points that previous games excelled at… Mostly because you do nothing but fast travel between comparatively tiny rooms, and any exploration is either 1 time discovery of planets you’ll fast travel to later, or frustrating searching for the last mineral/flora/fauna you need to complete a planetary survey.
Removed by mod
I would say New Vegas, but thats kind of cheating since Bethesda only published it, didnt make it.
As for Bethesda made games… I really don’t have a favorite, per se… Previous games all scratch the same itch in their own unique ways, Depending on what you’re wanting on your plate at the moment since they are all fairly decent at hitting good highs and lows with beautifully designed worlds that reward exploration. Even with the internet and wiki’s listing out everything known, I still find things in TES/FO that I never knew about before.
They have that real great sense of wonder and splendor as you are wandering their worlds, dealing with interesting fights, etc.
Which is one of the many reasons why Starfield missed the mark. There is no sense of wonder or exploration beyond cutscenes like ship launches, which quickly lose their luster with repetition. With the previous games, You could wander from one major settlement, to another… might be a 5 minute trip between the two points real time, but it takes hours to get there cause you keep discovering new points of interest, new locations, new random emergent interactions, and getting sidetracked by all of them and ending up looking at the clock and going “Holyshit its THIS late?! how did that happen?!”, and the only time you’d hit a loading screen is when you entered/exited a dungeon.
In Starfield, you just… get on your ship and jump from Point A to B, the only “exploration” being running from your ship across a mostly empty void to the quest marker. Yeah, you could poke around the map, if you are doing surveys or looking for PoIs, but theres such an astonishing lack of variety in the PoIs you quickly learn to recognize them from a distance, and know not to bother cause the 100th one you clear is exactly same as the first, with the only difference at all in the enemies that spawn in relation to your level, but still be very weak and easily die. Plus, theres so many loading screens to get anywhere that it is just jarring and, imho, really keeps you ripped out of being immersed in teh game.
And I want to be clear, This isnt comparing games with 5 years of patches and content additions to Day 1 Starfield. I’ve played most of Bethesdas modern games day 1, and I will absolutely admit that those games were buggy, crashtastic messes, While Starfield has been remarkable stable (only had like 5 crashes in 100+ hours of play, all on fast travel, which apparently was a bug that could be bypassed by disabling steam overlay).
I don’t have any hate for Starfield, though. I’m just enormously disappointed that it doesnt even measure up to its predecessors, which did more with less, both computer hardware wise and design wise.
Thanks for posting this. The way you describe getting lost on the way in other bethesda games is something I was having trouble putting into words myself.
That was really the magic of Bethesda games pre-starfield.
You would discover so much world, world building, and lore, by just wandering getting sidetracked and wandering. And it was so deeply engrossing that you didnt realize how much time passed.
I personally disagree with New Vegas as the best Bethesda game. The qualities that people like the most about Bethesda, namely the open world and getting lost in it vibe, is least present in New Vegas.
I love it, it took me a while to really get into it but it was well worth it.
My best suggestion would be to ignore the main story and follow side quests, that’s the real meat of the game.
Exploration is a mixed bag, if you are expecting Skyrim where you can get lost going in any direction you are going to be disappointed. The planets are mostly empty but incredibly well made from a space simulation standpoint, I spent a while just traveling the solar system and taking pictures of cool places I found.
I think following the main quest until the first temple is a good idea, personally. After that, you’re in a pretty good spot to decide whether you want to pursue the main quest line more or focus on side quests.
Yeah, that’s a good point to go do something else. I do wish the game was better at explaining how it’s systems work though, I’m still figuring stuff out 80 hours in.
I mean, I got it as part of Xbox gamepass so in a way it’s freeish (and in a bigger more tangible way it’s not lol). I’m enjoying it, first 12 hours sucked and I nearly dropped it, but it got much better.
Just an imo, it’s very similar to fallout 4 I’d say. Nothing more, nothing less. There isn’t some amazing questlines or a complete reimagining of the formula. Just change stuff to space, and remove maps to become this shitty starfield system and there you go. So it depends if you enjoyed fallout 4.
No regrets here :)
It is, its pretty fun. Its just also fun to make fun of it
Here’s a brief review
$70
Main story beaten comfortably in 20-30 hours.
Consensus: but no man sky instead
$100
Still playing at NG+3 after 200 hours. Still finding new things daily. Having a whale of a time.
Consensus: No Man’s what now?
No man’s sky similarly had a rough launch in terms of empty promises, bugs, lack of meaningful side content but ended up being recovered by another company and has been producing non stop updates, patches, and major updates ever since and has topped the leader board for most played games on the steam deck
I’m not bashing anyone else’s feelings on this topic, I personally just feel like this was way more empty than any of bethesdas other games like fallout 4.
Not to mention all the other games that were pushed off so they could work on their “masterpiece”
The facial rigging and animations are constantly bugged or straight up nightmarish (par for the course, shit happens, I’ll give it a pass)
Not to mention the settlement system which is somehow less than what the settlement system was in fallout 4 and 76.
And if this companion tells me to stop picking up junk one more time I’m putting her in the god damn air lock
Well you say that …
But you have to admit, the sarcastic tone does come across as a little belligerent.
I mean you rushed the main story, and decided the game wasn’t for you, and that’s fair enough. But there’s a huge amount of stuff that no-one is going to be able to come to grips with in 20 hours, and I say based on having ten times that amount and still finding new things. So entitled as you are to give your opinion, I hope you’ll forgive me if offer my own by way of contrast.
Of course I’m cool with your opinion, it’s what makes convos more interesting
To clarify “masterpiece” was in quotes to signify them having used that sort of verbiage and not as a mocking mechanism
Would you care to share some of these findings?
I personally haven’t completed the story yet, as I said that was a friend who had completed it in that timeframe. I’m working the hell out of side quests, I only just got the mission from the Russian dude in the space station for the main story but I’m deep into the crimson pirate faction line missions, amongst other side questions.
My point is that, yes they can pack in all this side content, but the majority of the games functionality is not finished, is broken, is widely disliked, or is just insanely mundane/formulaic
It’s a losing battle constantly putting out “new things” I can concede that, but don’t up the price tag or make such bold claims ya know what I mean? I played every Bethesda game since morrowind right up until the bs with fallout 76 (yes including doom and the like) I just don’t think they’re keeping up and I think they’re greedy.
That’s just how I see it based off these last few releases. (Come on man, you gotta at least admit the rigging and animations are pretty bad for a AAA title)
Clarification accepted.
Didn’t say it to me. All I got was “$70. 20-30 hours. Play NMS instead”. Did sound a little on the mocking side, if I’m entirely honest.
All of which is subjective, of course. I’ve found very little that is broken or which strikes me as “insanely mundane or formulaic”. As for widely disliked. it’s difficult to evaluate the truth of than when may of those same dislikers were trying to talk the game down before it was even released.
Come back in a year and we’ll pick this up then. People will either being playing it or not, and either way we’ll have our answer. Until then, all you’re doing here is slinging mud.
I honestly don’t believe I do. I guess it’s like HiFi systems - beyond a certain point I’m not sure I can tell the difference. So long as it doesn’t impinge on my enjoyment (and it hasn’t so far), why should I care?
You’re absolutely right on that second bit, my bad.
“Play nms instead” was also genuine, I have hundreds of hours in that game and they deserve attention for how much of a comeback they did, but I understand where you’re coming from.
However, that 3rd point I gotta push back on. Bugs are not subjective, neither is incomplete functionality.
Im gonna pass on the slinging mud comment, I think that was just an attempt to downplay my argument.
Lastly, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked into your ship and the crew mates are all standing on top of their seats glitched into the roof? You’ve never seen one npc or companion doing the stationary ghost walking animation?
If you honestly think the facial expressions are indiscernible from real facial expressions I think we can probably just stop this convo here as you’re very obviously not being honest or truthful with yourself, but maybe I’m wrong.
Thanks for having a civil convo with me btw. I appreciate it more than you probably realize.
Yes, there are bugs. I mean there are going to be bugs in any software project of this size and complexity, but OK - that doesn’t mean the bugs don’t exist. I’ll grant that. And yes, there are what appear to be incomplete systems. The code for fuel economy and environmental hazards appears to have been ripped out at a comparatively late stage, and you can see where they’ve papered over the cracks.
And while no-one is saying either of these are good things, per se, there is a question of magnitude to consider. Forgive the minor paraphrasing, but “not finished, broken or widely disliked” rather suggests that the villagers have assembled with pitchforks and torches and are in the process of storming the castle - and that doesn’t seem to be the case. Certainly I don’t think that the game’s failings are storming-the-castle bad, and if you believe otherwise, then here we have indisputable subjectivity.
As for misplaced actors - have you played a lot of Bethesda games before this one? In Skyrim, it’s not uncommon to see someone asleep, floating on the air, three feet to the side of their bed. Positioning glitches happen, and I guess long time Bethesda players tend to take it in their stride. Granted, if everyone I talk to has their head embedded in the ceiling that would be problematic, but I can honestly say I’ve only seen it once or twice in Starfield. It’s not a game-breaker, at least not at level I’ve seen.
Facial expressions? I’ve played Morrowind. I’m not expecting Uncanny Valley realism here. These are characters in a computer game and all expressions are going to be approximations of real life. Tell me that your favorite game does it better and I’ll probably take your word for it, but I’m still not seeing anything that would incite me to burn the Baron’s castle to the ground.
I try. Since you gave me a pass on mud slinging, I’ll cut you a break for “you’re very obviously not being honest or truthful with yourself” :)
@stevedidWHAT I think comparing Starfield’s launch to No Man’s Sky’s launch is being a little histrionic. Starfield launched with bugs - what A-list game hasn’t in the past 10 years? - but it’s not like the game is unplayable or broken. Yes, it can be annoying at times, but maybe the game just isn’t for you: not every game has to be loved by every gamer.
I suspect a lot of these posts are just people searching for a reason to dump on whatever is the current topic of conversation.
I suspect you’re looking for correlations that aren’t even that accurate/reliable
No man sky wasn’t unplayable either
And it got SHIT on despite it being a small time company (hello games, maybe not exactly indie but definitely younger and less experienced than Bethesda assuredly)
Why is everyone so defensive of powerful giants?
Not to mention the fact that Bethesda (for their second release in a row) has the audacity to charge more for less gameplay. Sure it has promise, but don’t have the balls to charge me even more (I guess we’re all cool with $70 games now) for a game that took at least 6 years (if not more) to make that still drops with crazy and immersion breaking bugs ( I think that’s a fairly consistent feature we all look for in a game across the board)
@stevedidWHAT Not really “defensive of giants”. Just not understanding how people get so worked up over tiny things in something as unimportant as a video game.
Seriously, some of these posts sound like Starfield broke into their house and killed their dog. Seems like everyone could dial it back a solid 30%
I think people are valid in their venting of frustrations.
This isn’t frustration entirely against this game or even just Bethesda. We’re humans, we’re complicated and have loooooots of things that influence our attitudes and behaviors.
The frustration you see is likely part of frustrations that are held with lots of commodities we seemingly pay more and more for and get less and less from.
It’s not just Bethesda, the frustration is much larger than that and to try and downplay that is just ignorant of peoples lives and the bigger picture itself (in my opinion of course)
@stevedidWHAT I get being frustrated, although like you say, seems this is a much bigger problem than- I’m shocked by the way the gaming industry treats its customers and what those customers put up with. Feels more like a junkie/pusher relationship than an entertainment industry.
But honestly, issues with games are very much a rich people problem, akin to getting all worked up over the quality of Starbucks coffee. No one’s playing Starfield on an inexpensive device.