“you made god kill himself” is pretty far away from what’s the belief in the bible.
The bible says that God sends the son of man to die by the hands of man.
Not saying that that’s true or whatever.but that’s how the story goes
Yeah no. Paul is quite clear that it was to remove Original Sin from the world and usher in the end. According to Mark it is for the general sins of the world (ransom) and to provide humans direct access to skydaddy. Matthew adds to it the New Covenant. To Luke it was mostly about forgiveness, instead of ransom. To John it was a demonstration of love and future Kingdom of Skydaddy.
Ransom and forgiveness aren’t the same thing. If you get someone to pay me money that you owe me that is ransom. If I say forget about it that is forgiveness.
The first 3 generations of Christian thought was dealing with the given. The given was that their supposed Messiah died. The question was why.
Yeah but Paul never met the historical Jesus. He was a convert and if there’s anything I learned from going to church the converts are the most zealous, also preaching to Jews instead of Gentiles like the Gospels.
I didn’t say anything about the reasons?
I just said that “you made god kill himself” is factually wrong when talking about the bible.
You answered a different question?
It might not be the most charitable way of describing Christian beliefs, but it is accurate.
Jesus is supposed to BE god. And it’s god who demands blood sacrifices in payment for sin. Humanity sins, and god killed himself in order to allow himself to forgive us.
No. God didn’t kill himself in the story. Again: I’m not arguing over any real part. Just the story.
Clearly the Romans crucified Jesus.
Also he/god decided that path.
So no “you” didn’t “make god kill himself”
I think it depends on how you define suicide. If god is omnipotent and guides everyone’s fait and Jesus (god himself) dies, isn’t it only due to god making that happen? Admittedly, this suicide is a more complex one, but in the end, it is still suicide, as the actions taken willingly result in Jesus‘ death
You’re implying that the OP contains errors or mistakes. Could you explain what you’re referring to?
“you made god kill himself” is pretty far away from what’s the belief in the bible. The bible says that God sends the son of man to die by the hands of man. Not saying that that’s true or whatever.but that’s how the story goes
Yeah no. Paul is quite clear that it was to remove Original Sin from the world and usher in the end. According to Mark it is for the general sins of the world (ransom) and to provide humans direct access to skydaddy. Matthew adds to it the New Covenant. To Luke it was mostly about forgiveness, instead of ransom. To John it was a demonstration of love and future Kingdom of Skydaddy.
Ransom and forgiveness aren’t the same thing. If you get someone to pay me money that you owe me that is ransom. If I say forget about it that is forgiveness.
The first 3 generations of Christian thought was dealing with the given. The given was that their supposed Messiah died. The question was why.
Yeah but Paul never met the historical Jesus. He was a convert and if there’s anything I learned from going to church the converts are the most zealous, also preaching to Jews instead of Gentiles like the Gospels.
Seen the same thing. A convert is something else. Most of us were only mildly infected, a convert has their life sucked out of them.
As for Paul the more I study his letters the more I feel bad for the guy. That dehydration delusion broke him. Go back in time and give him Prozac.
I didn’t say anything about the reasons? I just said that “you made god kill himself” is factually wrong when talking about the bible. You answered a different question?
Right except the Gospels show Jesus going to his own death willingly, especially in Luke.
even that is not “killing himself”. that is accepting the sentence dealt upon him.
He put himself in that situation knowing he was going to die. That’s killing yourself.
You really are reaching here. Want to just be “right”?
Am I? I might be.
It might not be the most charitable way of describing Christian beliefs, but it is accurate.
Jesus is supposed to BE god. And it’s god who demands blood sacrifices in payment for sin. Humanity sins, and god killed himself in order to allow himself to forgive us.
No. God didn’t kill himself in the story. Again: I’m not arguing over any real part. Just the story. Clearly the Romans crucified Jesus. Also he/god decided that path. So no “you” didn’t “make god kill himself”
Every Christian I know thinks Jesus died for their sins.
yes. but not by suicide.
Suicide by cop is still suicide. If you willingly perform an action that you know will get yourself killed, you are committing suicide.
I think it depends on how you define suicide. If god is omnipotent and guides everyone’s fait and Jesus (god himself) dies, isn’t it only due to god making that happen? Admittedly, this suicide is a more complex one, but in the end, it is still suicide, as the actions taken willingly result in Jesus‘ death