• BellyPurpledGerbil@sh.itjust.works
    344·
    1 year ago

    Calling 5e and pf2e bloated with unnecessary rules, meanwhile Pathfinder and 3.5e are quite literally full of a couple decade’s worth of volumes and modules, in comparison to OSR?

    I don’t know if you’re a boomer, a troll, or both

    • Gutless2615@ttrpg.networkEnglish
      311·
      1 year ago

      PF2S is bloated with unnecessary rules. If that’s your thing, and I totally get the appeal of having a “wait let’s just see what nethys says abou — Oh apparently there are mechanics for this drug” moment; personally I find it really gets in the way of the session. Rule and move on with the story. Keep the mechanics to what they need. We’re ultimately dealing with a pretty simple underlying system: d20 roll high. All the subterfuge and wordy mechanics don’t really change that at the end of the day you need to roll a d20 and generally do better than a 12 or so to do what you want.

      • -☆-@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        171·
        1 year ago

        I feel like pf2e has just enough rules to empower the players to the level I like

        The more DM fiat a game has, the more trust I need from my players for things to go smoothly.

        That’s not a bad thing, necessarily, but for me structure is usually good as long as it doesn’t raise the skill floor too high.

        Once I’ve got trust built and feel a bit more experimental, I like Dungeon World or even Universalis

        • elementalguy2@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
          1·
          1 year ago

          Same I find it easy to gm and the players have enough of a grip of the system to be able to do something out of left field and I can find a way to make it work with the system so that play is smooth but consistent.

      • Fushuan [he/him]@lemm.eeEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        We’re ultimately dealing with a pretty simple underlying system: d20 roll high

        I highly disagree with this sentiment. You do you, but this is not the general feeling of TTRPG players.

    • Dice@ttrpg.network
      221·
      1 year ago

      PF2e is a joke. It requires reading the whole rules and planning out a character for multiple levels before making your first character. It gatekeeps the hobby worse than FATAL.

      Yeah, PF1 and 3.5e are bloated as hell. But you didn’t need to read all the feats for all the races before picking human fighter. Plus the people still playing those never used everything that was published.

      • Nerorero@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        161·
        1 year ago

        Lmao, I think you confused pf1 and pf2. In pf1 you can build yourself into a corner and create useless characters with ease. In 2e the worst characters are still decent

        • Dice@ttrpg.network
          116·
          1 year ago

          Nope, I know both. They both suck because of the required over optimization. But pf1 at least didn’t have characters constantly at full hp, which is one of the biggest balance issues.

          • Nerorero@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            142·
            1 year ago

            ??? Have you ever played 2e? That shit is perfectly balanced. Just because fights are designed around having full hp doesn’t mean the players always are.

            In pf1 you can ruin a character with an uninformed choice, in pf2 you can’t. The gap between minmaxxed or not has become reasonable in my opinion.

            • iAmTheTot@kbin.social
              23·
              1 year ago

              in pf2 you can’t.

              I run pf2e and love it, but I really gotta call this out as bullshit. It’s actually one of the worst things new people can read about the game, imho. I read this a lot as I was learning the system and parroted it to my players. We’re all experienced with TTRPGs, for the record. Despite all the chat from pf2e players that you supposedly cannot ruin a character with bad choices, I assure you it is possible.

            • Dice@ttrpg.network
              113·
              1 year ago

              Yes, I’ve played it. And a lot of other games. PF2 balance is only okay and they had to do several annoying things to do it. Like how do you balance a mixed level party in pf2? The system really doesn’t like that, because of it’s number inflation.

                • Dice@ttrpg.network
                  33·
                  1 year ago

                  Did I say I still run these games? I hate 5e, pf2, pf1 and wouldn’t touch 3/3.5 again. I ran all of these in the past, except pf2 but I’ve played pf2 plenty to know I hate and will never run it.

                  I run Hackmaster and other systems (oWoD, Cthulhu, WFRP, …) which aren’t bloated messes. I just think pf1 is slightly better than pf2 because that was my experience. But that seems ridiculous to you, because you feel insulted or something. I really don’t care.