• macniel@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    5e is pretty light though, and in most cases too light so the DM has no idea what to do and has to resort to “Rulings”.

    PF2e on the otherhand is crunchy AF and its awesome like that. It doesn´t have extra rules for everything, its all based on the same framework, which is pretty awesome.

    • TheGreatDarkness@ttrpg.networkOP
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      1 year ago

      You see, OSR fans would argue both 5e and Pathfinder have broken core rules engine because if it was well designed, you could apply it to all situations and wouldn’t need separate rules for every minutia. By these standards 5e is crunch heavy with unnecessary things like “how to hold your breath”

    • Dice@ttrpg.network
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      1 year ago

      PF2 is certainly easier to run. But tell me when it becomes a RPG, it’s basically a video game system ported to tabletop. Everything is about the builds, not the characters.

      • macniel@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        What would it take to make it a RPG? Some characters are flawed in certain things while excel at others. But what you want your character to be, its in your hands due to how you build your character. That´s part of your character, same goes to the backstory you may have developed and inform your build.

        • Dice@ttrpg.network
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          1 year ago

          Well they could stop gamifying RP and exploration so players actually get into character instead of just rolling dice. But that’s a pretty fundamental shift, so they won’t do it.

          • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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            1 year ago

            Are you one of the players who wants to “just talk out” social conflicts? That’s a totally valid way to play but I hate it. Or at least I hate it when the game has stats for like charisma and intelligence. I cannot be 20 charisma in real life do not try to make me.

            • Dice@ttrpg.network
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              1 year ago

              No. I use different ways to resolve social conflicts based on what the situation is. Sometimes that’s rolling dice, sometimes it’s talking in character and sometimes it’s in-between stuff. Stop trying to shove me into some stereotype. Are you going to stereotype me as a Hackmaster gm? A Keeper? An ultraviolet? A storyteller?

              I don’t expect pf2 players to understand my point of view, especially non-gamemasters.

          • macniel@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            But how does roling dice, when the outcome of a situation is uncertain, inhibit you from roleplaying your character?

            • Dice@ttrpg.network
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              1 year ago

              It doesn’t. It just conditions players towards not doing it by replacing interacting with the world with interacting with rules and dice. Which doesn’t stop experienced players, but misleads new players in a video game mindset.

              • macniel@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                Okay, but what can a solid and crunchy RPG System do for new players that expect Skyrim on a table? And on the other hand, what can those player get out of a rules light game? They would be entirely lost. Which then would result in just make.believe, which doesn´t need rules to begin with.

                • Dice@ttrpg.network
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                  1 year ago

                  Have you ever played with new players? I’ve ran non-dnd with new players several times. Including systems like Call of Cthulhu. Objectively speaking Cthulhu (BRP) is pretty rules light and my players had no trouble learning it. They just said what they wanted to do and I told them what to roll. They start to find the freedom in the system and get more creative. And a similar situation happens when I run more complex systems. I honestly have no clue what you are worried about. Players can learn how to play these games, they aren’t that hard.

            • Dice@ttrpg.network
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              1 year ago

              No, I dislike games like pf2 because the MDA framework they have designed is detrimental to the medium of roleplaying games. Because the mechanics encourage players to use PC in non-diegetic dynamics crippling the aesthetics of any setting or genre.