While Russia certainly helped move things in one direction, both the Brits and the Americans have to take full responsibility for the messes they created, in order to get out of them. if it wasnt for Russian interference, they would still be divided, just slightly tipping the other way round.
Polling in the UK has indicated that the populace thinks leaving the EU was a poor choice for a long time.
Even people who voted Brexit, at the time, were mostly in favour of having a strong relationship with the EU by staying in the customs union. Most even thought freedom of movement was a fair price to pay for a close trading relationship. Seriously, look up the things even Nigel Farage were saying in the run-up to the vote. That he’s not asking we leave the customs union, that our relationship would be close, etc.
It was only in the months after the vote that Brexiteers became more and more separated from reality… their words went from “we can have a relationship like Norway, who isn’t an EU member but is still majorly involved and very close” to “let’s ignore the EU and completely cut them off”. Because that’s what happens when you give right wing populists an inch. They will then take a mile.
It should also be noted that the UK is far from alone in this. Around the time of the 2015/2016 Syrian refugee crisis, anti-EU sentiment was at a high all over the union. The UK was only the 2nd-4th most anti-EU country in the union, depending on the study. If more countries had a referendum, more would’ve left.
The UK did it because David Cameron (PM) was worried about the growing influence of Farage. He called the referendum, expecting Remain to win, which would then cause a collapse in support for Farage/UKIP (who were taking votes away from the Tories).
Each and every country in the west seems to have a sizable populist far right movement these days. In some countries they’ve even been getting into government recently. I fear we have dark times ahead, because it seems to be a hard issue to tackle.
Disinformation sucks, but ultimately it also comes down to the individual. I get blasted by this shit on a daily basis too and I still can be reasonable where it counts.
You could read this as a vote for alignment with Russia vs Europe, in which case I completely agree.
In another reading, it’s a pretty huge decision on changeing the status quo and giving up a significant amount of sovreignity to join a powerful supranational union of states. It’s not necessarily an obvious decision, and reasonable people might vote no.
I’d argue voting to enter the EU is quite different from voting to leave it, as there will usually be a chunk of relatively reasonable voters who are decently happy with the status quo and reluctant to change it.
As I understand it, the main reasons for the EU being an issue at all in Moldova; is for more security against the Russians taking over the country, and the much needed economic help they will receive from the EU.
Also, it might facilitate (some) future integration with Romania.
The sovereignty thing is really overblown when you consider it in practical terms: You having the theoretical possibility to e.g. make favourable trade deals of your own is worth nothing when you don’t have the trade standing to actually get those deals. And that’s before you role-play as Westminster and sign anything just to be able to say that you signed something.
For a country the size of Moldova having EU negotiators hammer out those deals is a massive win, and they understand it, because unlike the UK they don’t mistake themselves for a global empire. Yes, Hungary is probably going to flood your salami market but that’s a small price to pay.
When it comes to Gaugazians OTOH I totally understand the apprehensiveness. They’re already a minority within Moldova and in the EU they’d be a tiny part of a tiny part of the whole. OTOH If they think that they’d be any better off in the Russian sphere then they’re delusional, the EU will actually defend their minority rights.
Just like a certain UK vote, or the US elections, or other elections around Europe: IT SHOULD NOT BE THIS CLOSE!
Massive Russian operations active in each example
And just like all of those votes, it wouldn’t be so close if it weren’t for a certain country that begins with “Russi” and ends with “a”
While Russia certainly helped move things in one direction, both the Brits and the Americans have to take full responsibility for the messes they created, in order to get out of them. if it wasnt for Russian interference, they would still be divided, just slightly tipping the other way round.
Polling in the UK has indicated that the populace thinks leaving the EU was a poor choice for a long time.
Even people who voted Brexit, at the time, were mostly in favour of having a strong relationship with the EU by staying in the customs union. Most even thought freedom of movement was a fair price to pay for a close trading relationship. Seriously, look up the things even Nigel Farage were saying in the run-up to the vote. That he’s not asking we leave the customs union, that our relationship would be close, etc.
It was only in the months after the vote that Brexiteers became more and more separated from reality… their words went from “we can have a relationship like Norway, who isn’t an EU member but is still majorly involved and very close” to “let’s ignore the EU and completely cut them off”. Because that’s what happens when you give right wing populists an inch. They will then take a mile.
It should also be noted that the UK is far from alone in this. Around the time of the 2015/2016 Syrian refugee crisis, anti-EU sentiment was at a high all over the union. The UK was only the 2nd-4th most anti-EU country in the union, depending on the study. If more countries had a referendum, more would’ve left.
The UK did it because David Cameron (PM) was worried about the growing influence of Farage. He called the referendum, expecting Remain to win, which would then cause a collapse in support for Farage/UKIP (who were taking votes away from the Tories).
Each and every country in the west seems to have a sizable populist far right movement these days. In some countries they’ve even been getting into government recently. I fear we have dark times ahead, because it seems to be a hard issue to tackle.
Disinformation sucks, but ultimately it also comes down to the individual. I get blasted by this shit on a daily basis too and I still can be reasonable where it counts.
The Russi Brothas? They made that superhero movie right? The one with Thanus?
You could read this as a vote for alignment with Russia vs Europe, in which case I completely agree.
In another reading, it’s a pretty huge decision on changeing the status quo and giving up a significant amount of sovreignity to join a powerful supranational union of states. It’s not necessarily an obvious decision, and reasonable people might vote no.
I’d argue voting to enter the EU is quite different from voting to leave it, as there will usually be a chunk of relatively reasonable voters who are decently happy with the status quo and reluctant to change it.
As I understand it, the main reasons for the EU being an issue at all in Moldova; is for more security against the Russians taking over the country, and the much needed economic help they will receive from the EU.
Also, it might facilitate (some) future integration with Romania.
The sovereignty thing is really overblown when you consider it in practical terms: You having the theoretical possibility to e.g. make favourable trade deals of your own is worth nothing when you don’t have the trade standing to actually get those deals. And that’s before you role-play as Westminster and sign anything just to be able to say that you signed something.
For a country the size of Moldova having EU negotiators hammer out those deals is a massive win, and they understand it, because unlike the UK they don’t mistake themselves for a global empire. Yes, Hungary is probably going to flood your salami market but that’s a small price to pay.
When it comes to Gaugazians OTOH I totally understand the apprehensiveness. They’re already a minority within Moldova and in the EU they’d be a tiny part of a tiny part of the whole. OTOH If they think that they’d be any better off in the Russian sphere then they’re delusional, the EU will actually defend their minority rights.
Shit, have you seen the western Canadian ones? Insanely close.